In Matthew 13, you find the parable of the tares and the parable of the dragnet. Both repeat these sentiments:
1) The righteous and wicked are growing in the same place
2) Let them grow together until the harvest
3) First, gather the wicked to be burned
4) Then, gather the righteous.
So, we who the Lord has mercifully saved will mingle with the wicked until their destruction. They aren't destroyed before the Tribulation.
There's no biblical reason for you to differentiate 1 Thessalonians 4 and Matthew 24. Jesus is going to do the commanding of his angels, therefore
He gathers His elect, whether or not angels are involved.
Jesus' return is covered in Revelation 19 and in Revelation 20 it talks about the millennium where Jesus reigns while Satan is chained. Specifically in Revelation 20:4-6 it talks about the beheaded being raised to life and ruling with Christ during the 1,000 years. This is called the
First Resurrection, and they are blessed for being part of it. It's at the end of the Tribulation, so there's no way 1 Thessalonians 4 could occur before the Tribulation... otherwise, it would be the second resurrection, since these beheaded are killed
during the Tribulation because of the Word of God and because they don't take the mark of the beast. Since elsewhere (1 Thessalonians 4, 1 Corinthians 15) the resurrection of the righteous is described as the entire Church, I'm convinced it is--it's just that God probably has special jobs in His millennial kingdom for those who are beheaded during the Tribulation and that's why they are highlighted. It also places a marker on the timing of the first resurrection/rapture, as I explained. The resurrection of the wicked, and any righteous that die in the Tribulation, will not occur until after the millennium, Revelation 20:11-15. The sheep and goats separation is at the second resurrection, the final judgment after the millennial reign of Christ.
(Christians and non-Christians are obviously treated differently at the return of the Christ, too.)
You care about truth right? That's why you follow Jesus.
His Word is truth. The words of Scripture matter. God is not a God of confusion, but He wrote the parables because He wanted to teach the elect and keep the truth-haters in the dark (see 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11). I think end times teaching is like that. It's not super complicated, but there are lots of differing voices--how do you learn the truth? 1) You seek God honestly and wholeheartedly and ask Him for understanding. 2) You believe His Word (all of it, in its clearest context). 3) You read His Word.
I'm praying you are a lover of truth... even if it means the possibility of facing hard realities in your relationship with Christ. If so, please read on.
Luke 17 and Matthew 24 are both about the days of the Son of Man (Jesus), when He is revealed (Luke
17:22, 24, 26, 30) in His glory. It also called the coming of the Son of Man (Matthew 24:27, 36, 37, 39, 42, 44).
So, concerning that day (the day of Jesus return), look at what Jesus said in Luke 17:
Luke 17:31-37
31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the
one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the
one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the
one will be taken and the other left.”
37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
So He said to them, “
Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
I was preconditioned to believe that Jesus was talking about a pre-tribulation rapture of the Church when I would get to verses 34-36. One day when I was reading it, I stopped at verse 37. I could not understand what Jesus was talking about. It seemed like He changed the subject or went into some mysterious allegory. I thought, "
Eagles (or vultures) eating the bodies of Christians sounds dishonorable" (it is, by the way... see
2 Samuel 2:4–7,
Deuteronomy 21:22–23,
2 Kings 9:10,
Revelation 11:7-10,
Jeremiah 25:30-33,
Amos 2:1,
1 Kings 21:24,
Jeremiah 7:30-34 (v 33.),
Ezekiel 39:1-6 (v.4),
Ezekiel 39:17-20). "
Also, doesn't it say that we will not all die, but we will all be changed (
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,
1 Corinthians 15:50-54)
? Why would bodies of Christians be left anyway?"
These things bothered me, and so I sought the Lord with all my heart, begging for understanding of what Jesus meant by "where the carcasses are, there the vultures will gather." The Lord answered my prayer!
Within a week, I realized this phrase was also found in Matthew 24, so I examined them together, hoping for some insight.
Matthew 24:23-28
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
27
For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28
For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Jesus is comparing the false returns of Christ with the genuine marks of Christ's return. As everyone sees lightning that flashes from east to west, so everyone will see His return, so it would not be missed or limited to people who exist in a certain geographical or spatial location (e.g., desert, inner room). Jesus repeats this in Luke also, in the passage below.
Jesus warns people not to believe proclamations that He has returned. (Matthew 24:23, 26). These profuse warnings are also given in Luke (
17:23):
Luke 17:20-24
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, ‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them. 24
For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day.
That's pretty straightforward, right? So, next we'll look at a biblical example Jesus tells us is like the return of Christ--the days of Noah.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
Matthew 28:36-44
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
In these passages are the key to understanding the identity of the carcasses, who are taken. Did you see it? Here it is again.
Luke 17:26-27
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and
destroyed them all.
Matthew 24:38-39
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and
took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
The
taken in the context of the flood were the wicked, who were killed/destroyed when the floodwaters came.
So, reading Luke 17 again:
Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be
taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be
taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be
taken and the other left.”
37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
When one person is taken and the other is left, you know where the person who's left is. The disciples question, "Where, Lord?" was not about the left, but the taken. Now we understand that Jesus was saying that they would die and vultures would eat their carcasses. So these passages are not about a Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church--it's about the two true signs of His return:
1) It will be visible to everyone; and,
2) People will die, and vultures will feast on their carcasses.
This is also exactly how it is described in Revelation at Jesus' return:
Revelation
19:17-18
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
Revelation
19:21
21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
The revelation described here was the catalyst for my questioning the pre-tribulation rapture. I dug into the Word until I became convinced there is no such thing as a pre-tribulation rapture of the Church. Jesus will resurrect the dead in Christ and gather or rapture His church at the end of the Tribulation, also known as the return of Christ.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 “
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and
they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels
with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
May God bless you.