Why do only some lose faith?

[Ricky M]

I suppose either but mostly I was thinking about Christianity. Like me and my sister for example. I lost my faith and she has kept her faith as far as I know. She is probably smarter than me (although I wouldn't normally admit that LOL). One possibility is that she is an MD and is alway doing things - working long shifts or going on vacations. She isn't a person who sits around staring at clouds and thinking random thoughts.

What does satan do with idle hands? Yeah - what he's doing to you.

 

[Ricky M]

Well, I was a cradle Episcopalian. I believed those things, because I was indoctrinated from earliest childhood. I was always concerned that I couldn't point to a moment in time when I was "saved" and the heavens opened up and so forth as many Christians claim must happen. In college when I began to question Christianity I decided to be baptized a second time as an adult in hopes that I would get some confirmation of my salvation. When nothing happened and I was actually coached on how to babble to speak in tongues after the baptism then I became more skeptical. About 20 years later I started believing due to "spiritual" (or possibly psychological) experiences, and I felt that I believed whole-heartedly. ... Now I am more skeptical than ever, but I also have memories of experiences that are not all easily explained from an atheist's perspective.

...yeah, I'm seeing indoctrination, I'm hearing of no conversion moment, I'm seeing false application of Biblical principals... I'm not convinced you were ever actually a Christian. Again, being immersed in the culture is NOT the same. And the priest shaking hands with the demon - says to me satan was/is using god the religion specifically to keep you from God the person. The angels siting quietly behind you while their enemy sits along side you - would you expect them to fight a battle that you are too lazy to fight yourself? That's a clear indicator that God's not doing anything in your life because YOU'RE not doing anything in your life.

And what scares me most, is that along with tossing the culture, they have you actively denying the one true God. After successfully keeping you from ever truly meeting Him.

I've always believed you can tell how powerful one might be in the kingdom of God by how hard hell works to hold them under. Seems to me they've been working pretty hard on you. Up until they took the fight out of the dog.

 

[cloudyday2]

...yeah, I'm seeing indoctrination, I'm hearing of no conversion moment, I'm seeing false application of Biblical principals... I'm not convinced you were ever actually a Christian. Again, being immersed in the culture is NOT the same. And the priest shaking hands with the demon - says to me satan was/is using god the religion specifically to keep you from God the person. The angels siting quietly behind you while their enemy sits along side you - would you expect them to fight a battle that you are too lazy to fight yourself? That's a clear indicator that God's not doing anything in your life because YOU'RE not doing anything in your life.

And what scares me most, is that along with tossing the culture, they have you actively denying the one true God. After successfully keeping you from ever truly meeting Him.

I've always believed you can tell how powerful one might be in the kingdom of God by how hard hell works to hold them under. Seems to me they've been working pretty hard on you. Up until they took the fight out of the dog.

That as an interesting explanation of the symbolism and probably has some good insights regardless.

Even if I opt to believe that experiences such as this were truly spiritual and had some message (rather than being products of my disturbed mind) then there is the problem of the Bible. Anybody who reads a bit on the history and archaeology is likely to conclude that Judaism evolved in a very uninspired way rather than being the product of divine revelations. How can a person take the Bible and Judaism and its spin-off religions seriously? Maybe strange paranormal things happen sometimes, but the Bible-God explanation just isn't viable IMO. That's why I kind of vacillate between atheism and some sort of generic God who masquerades as other Gods to communicate better with people of differing cultures.

 

[Halbhh]

but there was a growing discomfort with Christian theology.

ah, but theology (as we see here on CF many examples of) is only the personal viewpoints of people. One has theology B8.2 and another theology C4.1 and they argue, and most likely both are wrong. (that is, either A) outright wrong on something(s), or instead B) simply incomplete and not realizing it, and then arguing in error asserting he has the full understanding when he isn't even close) See?

Maybe it was because we visited so many churches (due to my mother) when I was young, I seem to quickly get the insight that Christ was the only one who got it right, but preachers and doctrines would be fallible, wrong, mistaken, most often (even more often than not). ( I could see just by observation of differing viewpoints in the various different churches)

 

[Ricky M]

That as an interesting explanation of the symbolism and probably has some good insights regardless.

Even if I opt to believe that experiences such as this were truly spiritual and had some message (rather than being products of my disturbed mind) then there is the problem of the Bible. Anybody who reads a bit on the history and archaeology is likely to conclude that Judaism evolved in a very uninspired way rather than being the product of divine revelations. How can a person take the Bible and Judaism and its spin-off religions seriously? Maybe strange paranormal things happen sometimes, but the Bible-God explanation just isn't viable IMO. That's why I kind of vacillate between atheism and some sort of generic God who masquerades as other Gods to communicate better with people of differing cultures.

That happens when you try to get to know God thru the Bible, instead of trying to get to know the Bible thru God.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Lately I have begun to think that God (and I don't necessarily mean the Christian God) might have me on course with His plan even though I feel that I am going nowhere in life. The things that humans value are mostly self-centered. Sometimes my gain is somebody else's loss. How can God favor me over somebody else? Maybe my purpose is to lose so that somebody else might win. Maybe I am supposed to be a villain rather than a hero. Whatever serves God's master plan should be what I want.

DO what the FATHER in HEAVEN SAYS TO DO. THAT IS His Master Plan -
will you DO HIS WORD ?

 

[cloudyday2]

DO what the FATHER in HEAVEN SAYS TO DO. THAT IS His Master Plan -
will you DO HIS WORD ?

Probably not, but my hypothetical assent is a moot point, because God has never made his master plan clear enough for me to say "yay" or "nay".

The way I like to think about God's master plan is to imagine people as robots with very little freewill. Lately I pray that God will nudge me this way or that way within the constraints of my limited capabilities, flawed character, etc.

Hopefully God's master plan accounts for the flawed human robots walking in darkness and doing whatever comes reflexively.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Probably not, but my hypothetical assent is a moot point, because God has never made his master plan clear enough for me to say "yay" or "nay".

The way I like to think about God's master plan is to imagine people as robots with very little freewill. Lately I pray that God will nudge me this way or that way within the constraints of my limited capabilities, flawed character, etc.

"Probably not" ?

Are you 'willing' to , or unwilling to do what God Says to do ?

 

[cloudyday2]

That happens when you try to get to know God thru the Bible, instead of trying to get to know the Bible thru God.

Maybe it is what happens when a person is willing to accept facts for what they are.

 

[cloudyday2]

"Probably not" ?

Are you 'willing' to , or unwilling to do what God Says to do ?

LOL, well it depends. I might sound noble and pious by saying "yes, I will do whatever God asks me to do", but nobody actually does that. At least I am being honest. I might do what God asks and I might not. If I write God a blank check there is still only so much money in my bank account.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

LOL, well it depends. I might sound noble and pious by saying "yes, I will do whatever God asks me to do", but nobody actually does that. At least I am being honest. I might do what God asks and I might not. If I write God a blank check there is still only so much money in my bank account.

Well, that's potentially in the 'write' direction .... (I can't tell for sure if you are willing or not) ... but do Realize that Ekklesia DO actually do what God Says To DO. (Jesus Family Today)
As Jesus Says "WHO IS MY brother and sister and mother ? All /whoever / HEARS the Word of God AND DOES IT - they are MY brother and sister and mother.

 

[cloudyday2]

I recall a DVD where a Christian apologist said that everybody has assumptions about the world and those assumptions affect the interpretation of evidence. Occam's Razor is typically mentioned by atheists to dismiss evidence that questions atheism, but it can also be used by Christians to dismiss evidence that questions Christianity. My understanding of Occam's Razor is "use the explanation that requires the least amount of changes to your previous world view." So that can explain some of the diversity in conclusions reached from identical information.

Of course at some point plausibility comes into play. If the explanation that fits your previous world view requires too much mental gymnastics (for example "the devil put those fossils there to question our faith") then we reluctantly begin to change our world view. That can be a slippery slope where the entire world view changes dramatically from that final straw that broke the Occam camel's back.

Another analogy is the "paradigm shift" in science. Normally science prefers to tweak the existing models slightly to accommodate the new evidence, but sometimes tweaking is not sufficient and the existing models must be changed dramatically. Hypothetically scientists from different scientific cultures (say different planets) might reach different conclusions from the same evidence if their existing models differ.

 

[TheOldWays]

Even though I am an ex-Christian, this question can go either way. "Why do only some lose faith?" or "Why do only some keep faith?". People who are members of CF and debate with members of opposing faiths must have familiarity with the same information. Why do our conclusions differ?

Everyone is on a different journey. For me it was a 10 year journey of leaving Christianity, trying pretty much every path under the sun until I settled on agnosticsm for many years and now back to Christianity via the Catholic Church. So I did lose faith, and still don't have a lot of faith while a friend of mine is very faithful and can't understand my path.