Why do only some lose faith?

[cloudyday2]

Ideally if everybody has the same information then everybody should reach the same conclusion. Of course that isn't the case on many issues.
- Sometimes issues are so complex that a thorough and error-free analysis of the information is not possible for most people.
- Sometimes people don't care enough about an issue to analyze the information.
- Sometimes the information can only point to likely conclusions and Pascal's wager becomes applicable. For example the rewards and punishments if Christianity is true might make continued faith seem preferable. Or another example might be a married couple where loss of faith by one spouse might cause problems.

Even though I am an ex-Christian, this question can go either way. "Why do only some lose faith?" or "Why do only some keep faith?". People who are members of CF and debate with members of opposing faiths must have familiarity with the same information. Why do our conclusions differ?

 

[“Paisios”]

. People who are members of CF and debate with members of opposing faiths must have familiarity with the same information. Why do our conclusions differ?

I think in part because the information that we hold in common is only one part of our decision making. Our own life experiences, which vary greatly, affect our perception and processing of any information and color our outlook on everything. That can lead to very different conclusions, as different pieces of information hold different emphases for each of us and carry very different meanings.

 

[Daniel C]

Salvation is a free eternal gift.


John 3 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.



A lot of people try to earn their gift of salvation, turning the gift into a wage and putting God into debt. Wrong formula.

Some people don't trust God enough to take the free gift and hold back from taking it and aren't saved to begin with.

The only way is to trust God and accept the free eternal gift of salvation that will not be lost.

 

[Halbhh]

Ideally if everybody has the same information then everybody should reach the same conclusion. Of course that isn't the case on many issues.
- Sometimes issues are so complex that a thorough and error-free analysis of the information is not possible for most people.
- Sometimes people don't care enough about an issue to analyze the information.
- Sometimes the information can only point to likely conclusions and Pascal's wager becomes applicable. For example the rewards and punishments if Christianity is true might make continued faith seem preferable. Or another example might be a married couple where loss of faith by one spouse might cause problems.

Even though I am an ex-Christian, this question can go either way. "Why do only some lose faith?" or "Why do only some keep faith?". People who are members of CF and debate with members of opposing faiths must have familiarity with the same information. Why do our conclusions differ?

Prior to asking about faith that fails that is the another question to consider: what did the person actually believe in? It may have been a church or a doctrine or a preacher instead of the word of Christ.

The faith that saves isn't faith in a church or a doctrine or a preacher, but the faith from Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ..

Then if a person has this faith based on the word of Christ, then for that saving faith itself to endure, Christ said: Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 7:24-27 - New International Version

 

[fwGod]

Ideally if everybody has the same information then everybody should reach the same conclusion. Of course that isn't the case on many issues.
- Sometimes issues are so complex that a thorough and error-free analysis of the information is not possible for most people.
- Sometimes people don't care enough about an issue to analyze the information.
- Sometimes the information can only point to likely conclusions and Pascal's wager becomes applicable.

For example the rewards and punishments if Christianity is true might make continued faith seem preferable. Or another example might be a married couple where loss of faith by one spouse might cause problems.

The events in the book of Job.. his wife, come to mind.

Even though I am an ex-Christian, this question can go either way. "Why do only some lose faith?" or "Why do only some keep faith?". People who are members of CF and debate with members of opposing faiths must have familiarity with the same information. Why do our conclusions differ?

There are as many reasons to lose faith, as there are many persons. Some are more casual in their faith which makes it easier for them to lose their faith. While others are more diligent and devoted which makes them stronger against adversities.

Just read the teaching of Jesus about the sower that sows the word. He describes several different people. The hard soil= hardhearted. The thorny soil= easily discouraged. The stony soil= the easily offended. The good soil= steadfastly devoted.

Jesus' intent was for the first three examples to become like the last example.. because they all have the same information.

 

[cloudyday2]

I think in part because the information that we hold in common is only one part of our decision making. Our own life experiences, which vary greatly, affect our perception and processing of any information and color our outlook on everything. That can lead to very different conclusions, as different pieces of information hold different emphases for each of us and carry very different meanings.

I'm glad you mentioned that. I realized I had forgotten that we can have personal experiences that are only valid information for one person. These personal experiences can be many types. For example, I might have worked as Billy Graham's accountant and have a unique perspective on that respected Christian leader. Or I might have had a vision at church. In both cases the information is more persuasive to me, because I know that I am not lying and others can always doubt that.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Possibly?
Seed planted on rocky ground.

No self examination.
Didn't finish the good race.
M-Bob

 

[cloudyday2]

Prior to asking about faith that fails that is the another question to consider: what did the person actually believe in? It may have been a church or a doctrine or a preacher instead of the word of Christ.

Some Christians might believe in charismatic leaders who can stumble, and also there are the varying Christian theologies (fundamentalist, liberal, etc.)

Then if a person has this faith based on the word of Christ, then for that saving faith itself to endure, Christ said: Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 7:24-27 - New International Version

I read a blog by an atheist who sometimes used incense to spiritually cleanse his home. He claimed that belief can come from behaviors over time. Simply going to church regularly might make people believe. Usually we think that beliefs shape actions but sometimes actions shape beliefs - even when the beliefs seem absurd such as an atheist who uses incense for spiritual cleansing.

 

[Halbhh]

Some Christians might believe in charismatic leaders who can stumble, and also there are the varying Christian theologies (fundamentalist, liberal, etc.)


I read a blog by an atheist who sometimes used incense to spiritually cleanse his home. He claimed that belief can come from behaviors over time. Simply going to church regularly might make people believe. Usually we think that beliefs shape actions but sometimes actions shape beliefs - even when the beliefs seem absurd such as an atheist who uses incense for spiritual cleansing.

Yes, I think there are very many that simply went to a church and believed in some things the preacher said, but didn't hear the key message of the word of Christ. Of course they would think they have faith, and do/did, and it could be a nice faith in some nice things, but the only faith that changes our hearts totally is to hear of Christ coming here to save them, suffering for their wrongs, dying for their wrongs, their sins, to save them from their wrongs. That they would then cast themselves on Him in repentance, their Savior. That through Him, they could begin to walk as He walked. See, Christ actually came here to die for you. And we can live with Him.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Ideally if everybody has the same information then everybody should reach the same conclusion. Of course that isn't the case on many issues.
- Sometimes issues are so complex that a thorough and error-free analysis of the information is not possible for most people.
- Sometimes people don't care enough about an issue to analyze the information.
- Sometimes the information can only point to likely conclusions and Pascal's wager becomes applicable. For example the rewards and punishments if Christianity is true might make continued faith seem preferable. Or another example might be a married couple where loss of faith by one spouse might cause problems.

Even though I am an ex-Christian, this question can go either way. "Why do only some lose faith?" or "Why do only some keep faith?". People who are members of CF and debate with members of opposing faiths must have familiarity with the same information. Why do our conclusions differ?

That's a good question, Cloudy. I've been asking these kinds of questions a lot lately, especially since a significant family member recently told me, "...but, I'm not sure I believe all of this Christianity stuff anymore...."

I was then quickly reminded of just how difficult it is for any one of us to believe since there are a Ka-gillion different things that go into any one person's ability to "believe" and then "have faith" in Christ. We could make a list, I suppose, but the number of items on the list could be legion. ... and this list becomes even more troublesome if it just so happens that "legion" is one of the things on the list.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Ideally if everybody has the same information then everybody should reach the same conclusion. Of course that isn't the case on many issues.
- Sometimes issues are so complex that a thorough and error-free analysis of the information is not possible for most people.
- Sometimes people don't care enough about an issue to analyze the information.
- Sometimes the information can only point to likely conclusions and Pascal's wager becomes applicable. For example the rewards and punishments if Christianity is true might make continued faith seem preferable. Or another example might be a married couple where loss of faith by one spouse might cause problems.

Even though I am an ex-Christian, this question can go either way. "Why do only some lose faith?" or "Why do only some keep faith?". People who are members of CF and debate with members of opposing faiths must have familiarity with the same information. Why do our conclusions differ?

On the lines of what Paisos said, but I will describe it by saying our "reality" is constructed.
The Social Construction of Reality - Wikipedia


And it isn't just how things are weighted even though that is important, but there are other things that add in too. We filter our experience with our beliefs, past experiences and personality traits. This isn't just true of our current experience but is often true of our past as well. Peoples memories of the past is affected by the present. That was a bit of Adlerian psychology I did't appreciate enough till when I was getting divorced! (In her unhappiness my ex decided that many things of our marriage that she was previously happy with sucked).

 

[paul1149]

Faith is more than intellectual understanding and assent. Jesus described the parable of the sower as the key to understanding all the parables. That is because its focus is directly on the condition of the heart. A heart can be beaten down, it can be shallow, it can be poorly tended, and it can be fruitful.

He did not give the parable fatalistically however. If one finds himself stuck, repentance and renewal are available. But one has to be willing.

The fallow ground of the poor would yield much food, but it is swept away through injustice. - Pro 13:23
For thus says the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem: "Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns. - Jer 4:3
Sow for yourselves righteousness; reap steadfast love; break up your fallow ground, for it is the time to seek the LORD, that he may come and rain righteousness upon you. - Hos 10:12​

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think this question has a lot to do with the distinction between religion and relationship.

Faith is a heart matter and we are invited to commune with God continuously.

The problem is how does that relationship start.

For many who fall away it never started in the first place because somehow Christian axioms were followed but not Christ Himself.

We are left having to conclude that faith is a gift that not all are given, as the Spirit draws some not others. Even the parables presented by Jesus were designed for those that were given an ear to hear and purposely not to make sense for others.

I was God aware by three appreciating His finger print in nature. At 8 Jesus appeared to me face to face and said there was nothing I would do in this life that He would not see. At 13 I knew it was time to personally respond and invited the vital personal relationship that I knew He wanted with me. Believe me faith was like a thin fragile thread in those days. At 17 I slid away partly due to an unequal yoke marriage, spiritual confusion, drug taking, 'mental illness' ECT , I saw my friends die and realised I was on a wrong road and that the only way back was to return to my Christian roots.
I set out to seek this, and again, an encounter with Him that was like being picked up, given a shake and told "these are the rails - stay on them."
7 years of healing and renewing of the mind followed before I could feel 'normal' again. This time the relationship was sustained and has remained so for the last 45 years.

Why me? That I can't answer but many were praying.

What has ensued is a living walk with Him that is sustained by His love and kindness, and although total commitment came at a cost, and wholeness took time, my life now is a dream come true.

What can I say - it is all about relationship - press into Him regardless of the cost. There is a life of fulfillment waiting to be lived.

 

[“Paisios”]

Usually we think that beliefs shape actions but sometimes actions shape beliefs

CS Lewis, who I respect a great deal, speaks of this.

 

[mnorian]

Salvation is a free eternal gift.


John 3 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.



A lot of people try to earn their gift of salvation, turning the gift into a wage and putting God into debt. Wrong formula.

Some people don't trust God enough to take the free gift and hold back from taking it and aren't saved to begin with.

The only way is to trust God and accept the free eternal gift of salvation that will not be lost.

 

[cloudyday2]

That's a good question, Cloudy. I've been asking these kinds of questions a lot lately, especially since a significant family member recently told me, "...but, I'm not sure I believe all of this Christianity stuff anymore...."

I was then quickly reminded of just how difficult it is for any one of us to believe since there are a Ka-gillion different things that go into any one person's ability to "believe" and then "have faith" in Christ. We could make a list, I suppose, but the number of items on the list could be legion. ... and this list becomes even more troublesome if it just so happens that "legion" is one of the things on the list.

It's a shame when family members differ on Christianity, because shared faith can bring people together and the converse it true also. I haven't been able to tell my family members that I no longer believe due to the worries it would cause my mother. Whenever Christianity comes-up in conversation (while I am nodding my head in physical agreement with whatever is said by a Christian family member) I am mentally feeling frustration and disrespect. It is like listening to this quote from the movie "Elf" - "First, I went through the seven levels of the Candy Cane Forest... Past the sea of twirly, swirly gumdrops... And then, I walked through the Lincoln Tunnel." ( Elf (film) - Wikiquote ). I don't like feeling that way about family members whom I otherwise love and respect.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It's a shame when family members differ on Christianity, because shared faith can bring people together and the converse it true also. I haven't been able to tell my family members that I no longer believe due to the worries it would cause my mother. Whenever Christianity comes-up in conversation (while I am nodding my head in physical agreement with whatever is said by a Christian family member) I am mentally feeling frustration and disrespect. It is like listening to this quote from the movie "Elf" - "First, I went through the seven levels of the Candy Cane Forest... Past the sea of twirly, swirly gumdrops... And then, I walked through the Lincoln Tunnel." ( Elf (film) - Wikiquote ). I don't like feeling that way about family members whom I otherwise love and respect.

Oh MAN! That's one of my favorite movies! I love Elf's Christmas department store set up, "... uh, yes it is!" "No, it's not!" the other guys says. "YES, IT IS!", Elf exclaims!

As for the emotional incongruities that can come about between family members, you're right, it can be worrisome, even for a more diversely and philosophically minded person like myself. The only thing is that after I've given my firm two cents to that family member, I always try to make sure they know that I love them and give them a hug (or three!). I mean, it's not like I haven't felt the pangs of doubt, despair and even disbelief at times in the past. It can be discouraging, for sure!

Then I just pop in that Elf movie, and the Spirit of Christmas comes back to me in a sweet reminder of the hope and power that belongs to those who ..... 'believe.'

 

[Ricky M]

Ideally if everybody has the same information then everybody should reach the same conclusion. Of course that isn't the case on many issues.
- Sometimes issues are so complex that a thorough and error-free analysis of the information is not possible for most people.
- Sometimes people don't care enough about an issue to analyze the information.
- Sometimes the information can only point to likely conclusions and Pascal's wager becomes applicable. For example the rewards and punishments if Christianity is true might make continued faith seem preferable. Or another example might be a married couple where loss of faith by one spouse might cause problems.

Even though I am an ex-Christian, this question can go either way. "Why do only some lose faith?" or "Why do only some keep faith?". People who are members of CF and debate with members of opposing faiths must have familiarity with the same information. Why do our conclusions differ?

Maybe this should go on it's own thread, but why/how do you consider yourself an ex-Christian?

 

[cloudyday2]

Maybe this should go on it's own thread, but why/how do you consider yourself an ex-Christian?

My case is kind of odd, because I actually had some pretty interesting spiritually-Christian experiences about 10 years ago. For a while I believed in Christianity on the basis of these visions and paranormal experiences, but there was a growing discomfort with Christian theology. I stopped attending church and began searching books for some explanation to my experiences. In the process I began reading books about the origins of Judaism from a secular perspective, and my faith in Christianity just oozed away entirely. I think Christians probably have genuine paranormal/spiritual Christian experiences sometimes, but I think a generic God is pretending to be the God of Christianity while also pretending to be the God of Islam, Hinduism, etc. Hope that explains. I don't mind talking about it, but I also hate to bore people.

 

[Ricky M]

My case is kind of odd, because I actually had some pretty interesting spiritually-Christian experiences about 10 years ago. For a while I believed in Christianity on the basis of these visions and paranormal experiences, but there was a growing discomfort with Christian theology. I stopped attending church and began searching books for some explanation to my experiences. In the process I began reading books about the origins of Judaism from a secular perspective, and my faith in Christianity just oozed away entirely. I think Christians probably have genuine paranormal/spiritual Christian experiences sometimes, but I think a generic God is pretending to be the God of Christianity while also pretending to be the God of Islam, Hinduism, etc. Hope that explains. I don't mind talking about it, but I also hate to bore people.

Not boring at all. There's a big debate in some circles on whether one can 'lose' their Christianity. So it's interesting to hear from someone who claims to have done just that, and why.

What were these visions and paranormal activity?