Why do many Christians not understand this?

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
As I think I might have shared, I thought I was born again about 16 years before I actually was. Christ moves in and teaches each of His brethren from the least to the greatest. When this happens, your eyes and ears are opened.

This time you speak of being born again before you were born again: Did you accept Jesus as your Savior and believe in the gospel as per 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and seek forgiveness with Him?
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I assumed that but I don't see the connection between what I posted and what you posted. Perhaps you could elucidate?

You said, I quote:

We want to be in control and not dependent upon God to save us. We want to be in a position to force him to accept us because of our righteousness.”
Quote by: Grasping the after wind.
This suggests the popular view of Christianity that’s says we are saved by God’s grace and it is not in anything we do.

While we do need to initially be saved by God’s grace, what you said suggests that Sanctification does not play a part in our salvation even though 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says that God has chosen us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (Which is a call of the gospel).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

lsume

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 14, 2017
1,491
696
70
Florida
✟417,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Doesn’t sound like the same Jesus of the Bible. For Jesus says: “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15.10). Jesus says, "Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.” (John 8:34). Being a slave to sin means that sin is a person’s master. Jesus says, “No man can serve two masters...” (Matthew 6:24).
Ye shall through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of heaven. The fear of the lord is the beginning of knowledge. When you live captivity made captive you will understand. You will not see it as wrong or bad but perfect. Look what Christ went through.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Navair2
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
You said, I quote:

We want to be in control and not dependent upon God to save us. We want to be in a position to force him to accept us because of our righteousness.”
Quote by: Grasping the after wind.​
This suggests the popular view of Christianity that’s says we are saved by God’s grace and it is not in anything we do.
On the contrary, it sounds more like the popular view which says we are saved according to how many good deeds we accumulate, doing which supposedly establishes us as righteous and therefore deserving of salvation.
 
Upvote 0

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,354
Clarence Center NY USA
✟237,637.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You said, I quote:

We want to be in control and not dependent upon God to save us. We want to be in a position to force him to accept us because of our righteousness.”
Quote by: Grasping the after wind.
This suggests the popular view of Christianity that’s says we are saved by God’s grace and it is not in anything we do. While we do need to initially be saved by God’s grace, what you said suggests that Sanctification does not play a part in our salvation even though 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says that God has chosen us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (Which is a call of the gospel).

What I said was entirely about human nature and why people want to believe that works are effective in gaining salvation. While I do follow Lutheran theology, note that I have identified as Lutheran, and firmly believe that salvation is by Grace through Faith and not contingent upon being earned by works, that was not the point I was making. I was merely making an observation about human nature.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
On the contrary, it sounds more like the popular view which says we are saved according to how many good deeds we accumulate, doing which supposedly establishes us as righteous and therefore deserving of salvation.

Actually, in reality, most evangelical Bible alone churches hold to Easy Believism or a sin and still be saved type belief in some way. They don’t understand the Bible’s teaching that...

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:



(Here are a List of Verses):


#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Supplemental verse:

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).​

#5. "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

#6. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

#7. “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Supplemental verses:

(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

#8. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

Supplemental verse:

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​

#9. "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha."(1 Corinthians 16:22).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

(b) “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).​

#10. ”And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

#11. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

#12. "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38). ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

#13. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

#14. "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

(b) “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).

(c) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).​

#15. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

#16. ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

#17. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

#18. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).

#19. ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

#20. ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).
”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

#21. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

#22. “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

#23. “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (cf. 1 John 2:9-11).

#24. “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20).

#25. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).

#26. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

Supplementary verse:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).​

#27. “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet [Jesus], shall be destroyed from among the people.” (Acts of the Apostles 3:23).

#28. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

Supplementary verses:

(a) “Bring forth therefore fruits befitting for repentance” (Matthew 3:8).

(b) “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).​

#29. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

#30. “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What I said was entirely about human nature and why people want to believe that works are effective in gaining salvation. While I do follow Lutheran theology, note that I have identified as Lutheran, and firmly believe that salvation is by Grace through Faith and not contingent upon being earned by works, that was not the point I was making. I was merely making an observation about human nature.

And I was disagreeing with that works of faith (after we are saved by God’s grace) is a requirement as a part of God’s plan of salvation. That is why I replied in the way I did to your post. For your post suggested Belief Alone-ism.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Actually, in reality, most evangelical Bible alone churches hold to Easy Believism or a sin and still be saved type belief in some way. They don’t understand the Bible’s teaching that...
Maybe that is so, but those churches are hardly the majority of the Christian churches. And as you said, the 'easy believism' kind don't represent the wnole of even the Bible churches you referred to.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Maybe that is so, but those churches are hardly the majority of the Christian churches. And as you said, the 'easy believism' kind don't represent the wnole of even the Bible churches you referred to.

Protestant churches is the largest Christian group here in the States.

Besides Pentecostal churches, most of your Protestant churches who hold to Sola Scriptura also believe in Belief Alone-ism or a sin and still be saved type belief.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Protestant churches is the largest Christian group here in the States.
Your post was about "evangelical Bible alone" churches.

Besides Pentecostal churches, most of your Protestant churches who hold to Sola Scriptura also believe in Belief Alone-ism or a sin and still be saved type belief.

Naaa. That's complete bunk. They don't.

There are some such churches, but you are far from correct in trying to make most or all of Protestantism fit your analysis.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Site Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,092
5,667
68
Pennsylvania
✟788,636.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
What happens if you miss one or more sins - maybe through lack of understanding?
My point exactly. We don't know much about how sinful we are and what we have not yet been convicted of. Ask Martin Luther.

But God knows we are but dust. Our sins are covered, we will confess.
 
Upvote 0

Navair2

May the Lord Jesus Christ be magnified above all
Nov 18, 2020
407
215
58
Somewhere west of Chicago.
✟36,159.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
But is conditional on our abiding in Christ. If we fall away the forgiveness stops at the point where we fell away and if we repent the forgiveness begins again.
" And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 [and] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."
( Colossians 2:10-15 ).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
There are some such churches, but you are far from correct in trying to make most or all of Protestantism fit your analysis.

Read here about Protestantism. It mentions that they believe in Sola Fide.

Protestantism - Wikipedia

For Luther started the Protestant movement.
 
Upvote 0

GraceBro

Eternally Forgiven, Alive, and Secure.
Dec 24, 2017
702
588
Central Coast
Visit site
✟102,774.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Why do many Christians not understand that it is by God's grace that we are saved through our faith? Why do they understand that our faith is not of our own doing but that it is a gift of God? Not by our works because our works are as righteous as filthy rags?

Why do they not understand that to accept this teaching does not make them robots nor does it nullify God's grace but instead enhances it a billion times fold? Why do they not understand that it is God that needs all the glory, not mankind because without God, we are nothing.

Why do people not understand that without God's sovereignty we are nothing? Or that there is not a single thing that happens that goes outside of God's sovereign will and God is sovereign over all?

Sound familiar? It should and not a single word I said did I make up on my own but was Holy Scripture. Because I just quoted one of the most popular pieces of scripture that Paul wrote and mentioned several sections of the Bible including what the Prophet Isaiah prophesied all those years ago. Because, Christians the world over love to quote these verses to say that we aren't saved by our works (which is true) but, they also ignore the rest of what Paul and the prophets wrote. Let me explain and highlight Ephesians 2:8-9 for people.


Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Yes, it is your faith that saves you. There's no twisting or disagreement here. But your faith does not come from you, it comes from the grace and mercy of God. This faith is more precious than gold, because it comes from God. This faith will never waver and will never go away, because it comes from and is kept by God.

Don't believe me? Read what Paul, Peter, Jesus, and the writer of Hebrews said about our faith and about our salvation. Study it and take its meaning to heart because, everything I said is all there. Especially the Apostle Peter who said that we are a chosen possession and God's forever. Born of not corruptible seed, but incorruptible.

Yet, it's a frequent belief in Christianty that Eternal Security is a doctrine of the devil. Why? Because the Apostles talked about it and they're of the devil? That's essentially what they're saying. Its commonly taught that the basic idea of the reformed theology is from the Devil as well. Why? Because Paul is of the devil? Be careful what you're saying here. I didn't write these things, the Apostles and Prophets did. The apostle Paul may have had a shady past but Christ said he was chosen by God and everything that comes from his mouth is true, even Peter said so. I'll say it again. We are saved by Grace through faith. This faith is not of ourselves but is a gift from God and that faith will last now and forever. Amen!
Our pride won't allow us to accept a gift.
 
Upvote 0

AJL

Member
Dec 3, 2020
19
18
65
Rimbey
✟43,148.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,732
10,038
78
Auckland
✟379,528.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But why body? spirit, soul is good enough?

We are to present our bodies as a living sacrifice....

Great idea is to periodically systematically devote prayerfully every detail of our bodies to Him.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,502
7,861
...
✟1,192,685.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Our pride won't allow us to accept a gift.

Gifts come with responsibilities. If we do not take care of our gifts, they can be taken from us, or destroyed due to negligence.

Speaking of pride (or being proud):

1 Timothy 6:3-4 says, “
3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,...”
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟283,922.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Rom 8
2 For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.…

I read that as saying we become vessels of obedience by the work of His Spirit within us. No personal striving to keep the law. No claiming sinless perfection. Rather a response to His living Word indwelling us explaining His personal requirements for each according to His purpose. That is very much a matter of obediently following His living word, just as the disciples were invited to do. So are we... will you follow Him? or the Law?

In Romans 7:12-25, Paul said that the Mosaic Law is holy, righteous, and good, that he wanted to do good, that he delighted in obeying it, and that he served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive, which caused him not to do the good of obeying the Mosaic Law that he wanted to do, and which he served with his flesh. Furthermore, in Romans 8:1-2, he equated the Law of the Spirit in Christ with the Mosaic Law by contrasting them both with the law of sin and death, so Paul needed to be set free from the law of sin and death in order to be free to obey the Mosaic Law.

In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God, and who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, so the gift of the Spirit is in accordance with obedience to the Mosaic Law being is itself part of the content of God's gift of salvation.

Furthermore, Titus 2:14 describes what Jesus accomplished as an offering for sin by saying that he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is what it looks like to believe in what Jesus accomplished as an offering for sin, and how we should understand what Romans 8:3 is speaking about. So while I agree that we are vessels of obedience by the work of His Spirit within us and that His living Word indwelling us explaining His personal requirements for each according to His purpose, what that looks like is obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is also what it looks like when the righteous standard of the Mosaic Law is fulfilled in us.

That is very much a matter of obediently following His living word, just as the disciples were invited to do. So are we... will you follow Him? or the Law?

The goal of a disciple was to memorize their rabbi's teachings, to learn how to think and act like him, and to essentially become an imitation of him, where if we see them, then we see the one who has sent them. We have this line of thought expressed in places like 1 Peter 2:21-22, where we are told to follow Christ's example, in 1 John 2:6, where those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and in 1 Corinthians 11:1, where we are to be imitators of Paul as he is an imitator of Christ. So there is contradictory for you to try to distinguish between following the living Word and following the law that he spent his ministry teaching us how to follow by word and by example.
 
Upvote 0

Ceallaigh

May God be with you and bless you.
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
19,071
9,928
The Keep
✟581,496.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
In my opinion one needs to read the whole of scripture. To take into account all of Ephesians rather than only going by a single verse. And then further more to take in all of what Paul wrote. And further more still, to take in all the books of the New Testament.

1 John for example is 5 chapters of telling us how to know that we are saved. It contains a series of tests regarding our salvation.

James 2:20 tells us that faith without works is dead. But in my opinion a keyword in this is "without". As in none. There was a time when I asked what kind of works? And how many works? But I think the real math here is if there's zero works. Zero works is a problem.

Christians lack understanding when they don't do enough reading, studying and praying.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,508
7,350
Dallas
✟885,311.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded without departing from it, so all of the Law of Moses is the Law of God. Likewise, the Law of Moses is referred to as the Law of Moses in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:21-22.

A number of the laws of God appear to conflict with each other, such as what happened when someone wanted to obey the command to circumcise their baby on 8th day and it happened to fall on the Sabbath, or when God commanded priests to make offering on the Sabbath. However, it was not the case that they were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commandments no matter what they chose to do, but that one of the commandments was never intended to be understood as preventing the greater commandment from being obeyed. This is why it is common within Judaism to ask rabbis about what they considered to be the greatest commandment, or in other words, about which commandment had the highest priority. They also consider positive commands to do something to have higher priority than negative commands to not do something.

Some Pharisees who were most likely from the house of Shammai considered healing to be work and therefore prohibited by the Sabbath, however, we are also commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves, and it would not be loving our neighbor if we refused to heal them, which is why Jesus ruled that it was lawful to heal on the Sabbath in accordance with that being one of the greatest two commandments. This is also why David and his men were held innocent for eating the showbread, why priests were held innocent for performing their duties on the Sabbath, and why Jesus defended the innocence of his disciples (Matthew 12:5-7). While it was lawful to pick grain for our own consumption on the Sabbath, it was still unlawful for someone to harvest their field.

This is also the same type of issue as the scenario of whether we should tell a lie if a Nazi asked us whether we were hiding Jews. However, the interpretive issue of which commandment has the highest priority in a particular situation is different from the interpretive issue of how to correctly follow a particular commandment. The Tabernacle had strong parallels to Creation, so Jews have associated the 39 forms of work that went in creating the Tabernacle with the forms of creative work that are prohibited when God rested after Creation, which they have rigorously defined as the correct way to obey the command to rest on the Sabbath.

God never gave a commandment forbidding healing on the Sabbath in Exodus or Leviticus.
 
Upvote 0