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Featured Why do Jews reject Jesus Christ?

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Al Masihi, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

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    Yes, I know.
    And they are typically very ill willed.
    I've seen plenty of the stench using internet forums for their own personal gain.
    Taking advantage of unweary readers who havnt studied.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  2. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

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    Would you be so kind as to give something of wisdom from a guarded keen eyed heart and assure me you know who Hadassah is.

    Blessings Always
     
  3. The Gryphon

    The Gryphon Well-Known Member

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    One day we all will worship the G_d of Israel in truth and in the Light of the Glory of G_d. All of Israel will see Him coming!

    Luke 21: 20-33

    20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

    22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

    23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

    24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

    26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

    27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

    28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

    29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

    30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

    31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

    33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  4. The Gryphon

    The Gryphon Well-Known Member

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    Zechariah Chapter 12

    1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

    2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

    3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

    4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.

    5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.

    6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

    7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

    8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

    9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

    10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

    12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

    13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

    14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

    Zechariah Chapter 14

    1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

    2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

    3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

    4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

    6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

    7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

    8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

    9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

    10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

    11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

    12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

    13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

    14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

    15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

    16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

    18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

    21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
     
  5. Aryeh Jay

    Aryeh Jay Veteran Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I know Hadassah; she is my middle daughter and currently is in the US Marine Corps with her husband.
     
  6. Rachel Rachel

    Rachel Rachel Messianic/Church of God 7th Day Supporter

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    I know that this is an old thread and someone has probably already said this.
    I know that Jews believe that according to the way the books of Matthew and Luke have been translated, Yeshua cannot be the Messiah because he is not in the line of David.
    According to Nehemiah Gordon, the original Hebrew text that shows the genealogy correctly is in the Vatican.
     
  7. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Semper Fi!! HUUURAH!!
     
  8. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    He cannot be a direct male descendant of David through Solomon. You don't get kingship or tribe from your mother and Joseph isn't his father according to you guys
     
  9. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Catholic answers gave a good answer to this question:

    Ever since the Gospels were written, people have been puzzled by the two differing genealogies of Christ contained in Matthew 1 and Luke 3. Neither genealogy attempts to give a full family tree, identifying all his lines of ancestry. Even so, people are often perplexed. The most obvious difference between the two genealogies is that Matthew’s begins with Abraham and moves forward to Christ, while Luke’s begins with Christ and traces the line backward to Adam.

    The next obvious difference is that both genealogies trace Jesus’ lineage back to David, but through different sons. Matthew has Christ descending from David through Solomon, while Luke has him descending from David through Nathan. This is not odd. David had more than one son, and a later individual can be descended from more than one of them.

    The question arises, when did the two lines meet up again? The Solomon line runs parallel to the Nathan line until the time of Shealtiel, when they intersect. In Matthew, Shealtiel is described as the son of Jechoniah, and in Luke his father is said to be Neri. How can he have two fathers?

    After Shealtiel, both genealogies state that Christ was descended from Shealtiel’s son, Zerubbabel, who was governor of Israel after the Babylonian Exile. Then they diverge again. Matthew traces Christ’s lineage through Zerubbabel’s son Abiud, while Luke traces it through a different son, Rhesa. Again, this is not odd. Zerubbabel simply had more than one son, and Christ was descended from both.

    The two lines converge once more in Jesus’ foster father, Joseph. In Matthew, Joseph is said to be the son of Jacob, of the Abiud line, while in Luke Joseph is said to be the son of Heli, of the Rhesa line. So why is Joseph said to have two fathers?

    Some have tried to answer this by saying that Luke doesn’t give Jesus’ lineage through Joseph at all, but through Mary. This is not supported by the text. Luke states that Joseph was the son of Heli, not that Mary was the daughter of Heli. In any event, this does not account for Shealtiel’s two fathers.

    To explain that issue, one needs to know something about how ancient Jewish genealogies work. Adoption, whether of a child or an adult, was common and affected which genealogical line one was ascribed to. For example, the faithful spy Caleb was biologically the son of a non-Jew named Jephunneh (Num. 32:12), but he was adopted into the tribe of Judah and ascribed to the line of Hezron (1 Chron. 2:18).

    Adoption could take place posthumously. The most striking example is what is known as the levirate marriage (from the Latin levir = brother-in-law). If a man died childless, it was the duty of his brother to marry the widow and father a son on behalf of his brother. This son then would be posthumously "adopted" by the dead man and reckoned as his son in the family genealogy.

    Adoption is the most probable explanation of Shealtiel’s two fathers. Jeremiah had prophesied that Jechoniah’s (biological) descendants would never sit on the throne of Judah (Jer. 22:30). Thus the legal succession passed to the line of Nathan and Shealtiel. Though biologically the son of Neri, Shealtiel was reckoned as Jechoniah’s son for purposes of the kingly line. It appears that Shealtiel died childless and that his brother Pedaiah fulfilled the obligations of a brother and fathered Zerubbabel (1 Chron. 3:17–19 with Ezra 3:2, etc.).

    This solves the first case of two fathers. But what about Jesus’ foster father, Joseph? Here we have more direct information. The second-century historian Julius Africanus, a native of Israel, records information given by Christ’s remaining family in his day. According to their family genealogy, Joseph’s grandfather Matthan (mentioned in Matthew) married a woman named Estha, who bore him a son named Jacob. After Matthan died, Estha married his relative Melchi (mentioned in Luke) and bore him a son named Heli (marrying relatives was common among Jews at this time). Jacob and Heli were thus half-brothers. Heli died childless, so Jacob married his widow and fathered Joseph, who was biologically the son of Jacob but legally the son of Heli (Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 1:6:7).

    There are other ways to reconcile the genealogies. The problem isn’t finding a way to reconcile them but—given the flexibility of ancient Hebrew genealogies—finding which way is correct. More interesting is why the genealogies are different. Matthew stresses Christ as the successor of David and follows the line of kings. Luke stresses Christ as the Son of God and traces the line back to "Adam, the son of God" (Luke 3:38).

    The Genealogies of Christ | Catholic Answers
     
  10. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    I don't believe that solves it from a Jewish perspective.
     
  11. Rachel Rachel

    Rachel Rachel Messianic/Church of God 7th Day Supporter

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    This should solve it perfectly from a Jewish perspective or are you saying that adopted sons are tribeless?
     
  12. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    Adopted sons retain the tribe of their father.
     
  13. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not according to the Bible and ancient Israelites since there are examples of adopted children taking the tribe of their adopted parents upon adoption.
     
  14. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    Where does it specifically say that?
     
  15. danny ski

    danny ski Newbie

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    That is right. There's no real concept of adoption in the Jewish Law. A Kohen can "adopt" a son, but he will never become a Kohen and retains the tribal.affilition of his birth father.
     
  16. Rachel Rachel

    Rachel Rachel Messianic/Church of God 7th Day Supporter

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    Bingo.
     
  17. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    And by father you mean birth father, not his real father.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  18. Rachel Rachel

    Rachel Rachel Messianic/Church of God 7th Day Supporter

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    Nehemia Gordon explains how he discovered the Hebrew text at minute marker 14:45ish.
     
  19. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Certain questions have to be asked here, the most important being:
    WHAT WAS THE SOURCE OF THE HEBREW BIBLE HE PICKED UP IN THE LIBRARY?

    For example, was it an old old manuscript of an ancient Hebrew gospel that had been smuggled out of the Vatican where evil maniacle Masons had hidden it even from scholars for 2000 years?

    Or was it a bad translation from the Greek into Hebrew, where someone changed the pronoun to make it more sufferable, leaving the original Greek manuscripts as the authoritative base?

    You get the idea. You have to come up with some reasonable explanation of where this book came from.

    To the best of my knowledge, absolutely no old Hebrew manuscript of any gospel is in existence today.
     
  20. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Caleb was biologically the son of a non-Jew named Jephunneh (Num. 32:12), but he was adopted into the tribe of Judah and ascribed to the line of Hezron (1 Chron. 2:18).
     
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