Why do i feel negative feelings when i read about Freemasons

[Albion]

P.S. Oh I should have commented on how you say the Moslems hate the Red Cross because of the cross.

I didn't say that.

Yet they don't have any problem with Free Masonry.

Is that true? How do you know that to be so?

www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/freemasonry-islamic-countries.html

www.masonsmart.com/freemasonry-is-forbidden-in-my-country.html

 

[LoricaLady]

ANYONE: Here are pictures of the Koran being displayed in SOME Masonic Temples. I haven't heard of any outcry against that practice from Masonry at any level. Again, the Koran contains prayers for things like asking Allah to destroy Christians, as well as Jews. Now why would Free Masonry have a practice, in SOME lodges, of promoting that unholy book? Rhetorical Q. but if you care to delve deeply into the historical writings of Masonry, you may find the answer.
pictures of koran in masonic temples - Google Search

 

[LoricaLady]

I didn't say that.
,

Is that true? How do you know that to be so?

www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/freemasonry-islamic-countries.html

Here is what you say about the Red Cross and Moslems:
"Are you similarly offended at the Red Cross? You know that in Muslim countries they won't even name their organization the Red Cross because they don't want to refer to a (Christian) cross!"

You have not answered my questions. I asked you if you, yourself, wore a noose type thing around your neck, and a blindfold, and were in a peculiar state of partially being undressed at your initiation ceremony. I asked you why you felt such practices - not to mention the hazing by the guy in the black robes - edify and lend dignity to human beings.

I didn't ask you to respond on how you felt such practices are consistent with being free in Christ, or of walking with Him in light, though because I felt you would not answer.

That is all I have to say on this string. My questions won't be answered. But I feel I know the answers anyway, as do many.

 

[Albion]

Here is what you say about the Red Cross and Moslems:
"Are you similarly offended at the Red Cross? You know that in Muslim countries they won't even name their organization the Red Cross because they don't want to refer to a (Christian) cross!"

Thank you. And so we see that it was not correct to say that I claimed the Muslims "hate the Red Cross."

You have not answered my questions.

Frankly, I am still trying figure out what is supposed by you to be unthinkable about Muslims being members of various organizations that are open to people of different faiths. Like your local PTA, for instance, or the DAV (Disabled American Veterans), or the Boy Scouts. Is that supposed to be immoral??

 

[LoricaLady]

I'll bite one very last time. In addition to ignoring my questions about whether or not you were in an initiation ceremony with a rope around your neck and a black blindfold, and in a state of peculiar undress, you also evaded dealing with the fact that the Koran is not uncommonly seen, as I showed in a link above, in Masonic lodges. It doesn't seem to bother you - or them! - that the Koran asks Allah to destroy Christians. I suspect you would now say "What lodges? How many? What percentage? Only SOME of them do that. Only SOME of them do hazing in black hooded, black robes...." and so on and on.

If a PTA was lifting up the Koran, or the DAV was, or the Boy Scouts were, I would say, get the heck out of there. It is unholy ground.

Let those see who have eyes to see. You are entrenched in Masonry so will never acknowledge anything wrong with it but will defend it anyway you can, seems to me. I am entrenched in Christianity and will defend it against those who have no problems with a book which advocates murder of Christians - and not just them by any means - and who say it is consistent with the Bible while they hang ropes around people's necks and blindfold them, etc. etc. We will never agree under such conditions. Byeeeeeeee.

 

[LoricaLady]

And oh yeal, when the Boy Scouts and the PTA and the DVA ask their members to wear ropes around their necks with black blindfolds and dress bizarrely before they can participate, then I will think your comparison to them and Free Masonry has validity. But they don't do any of that!

 

[Albion]

I'll bite one very last time. In addition to ignoring my questions about whether or not you were in an initiation ceremony with a rope around your neck and a black blindfold, and in a state of peculiar undress, you also evaded dealing with the fact that the Koran is not uncommonly seen, as I showed in a link above, in Masonic lodges.

Well, it IS uncommon. And to say that a bunch of pictures from who-knows-where showing who-knows- what events is proof of something in particular is just silly (to put it mildly).

It doesn't seem to bother you - or them! - that the Koran asks Allah to destroy Christians.

What a ridiculous thing to allege! I am a Christian and have no sympathy for Islam. You, however, are misrepresenting the situation, even though I have given the facts more than once.

If a PTA was lifting up the Koran, or the DAV was, or the Boy Scouts were, I would say, get the heck out of there. It is unholy ground.

So if a Muslim lodge in, say, Serbia, has a Koran on its table, all the practicing Christians who belong to a lodge in the USA and never have seen a Koran...they are supposed to do what? They don't even have an organizational connection to that lodge in Serbia but you think they are honor-bound to do....what?

And what if their hometown banks have some Muslims as depositors? Shift all of their own accounts to some other bank? Or what if a Muslim child attends the same school as one of their own children? Remove them from that school? What kind of nonsense is that sort of reasoning?

If a PTA was lifting up the Koran, or the DAV was, or the Boy Scouts were, I would say, get the heck out of there. It is unholy ground.

Well, no Masonic lodge in this country or in most countries of the world is "lifting up the Koran." None. No more than the DAV or Boy Scouts do. Your concern on that score, in other words, is misplaced.

 

[LoricaLady]

ANYONE CURIOUS: From Masonicdictionary.com...
"Many of our American Masons do not understand that in Continental lodges the Bible is not upon the altar, but that it is lying on the Master's pedestal, as is also the case in some of the English-speaking lodges. It has been decided in Massachusetts, after an exhaustive examination of the law and precedent, that according to the ancient regulations, it is the Sacred Book of the Law which is placed upon the altar. It will be readily understood that the Sacred Book of the Law includes the Koran, the Veda, the Scruti, the Pentateuch, as well as the Bible.

[Of course nothing in the Bible even hints at any 'Sacred Book of the Law" which includes religions that flatly disagree with it.]

"Referring to the question of the use of the Holy Bible on the altar in English and American lodges, we note in a recent Proceedings of the Grand Lodge of England that it was decided that the Provincial Grand Lodge of India could initiate candidates without interference with religion, and laid down the rule, "He need not cease to be a Mohammedan, Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, Christian, or any other denomination."

The Grand Registrar of the Grand Lodge of England stated "It is not a question of the Bible being on the altar, it is 'The Volume of the Sacred Law.' Among the Christians it is the Old and New Testament combined. Among the Jews it is the Old Testament alone. Among the Mohammedans it is the Koran."

So, hey, if ya wanna believe the Bible fine. If ya wanna believe in a "holy" book that says the Bible is corrupt - with no back up documentation, in fact while flatly ignoring the documentation - and recommends death to all dissenters, hey, that's fine too! And when you go to the those lodges and call yourself a Christian while the Koran, totally accepted, lies before you, no big deal. Logic goes out the door along with any loyalty to the Word.

The first law of logic is that two contradictory statements cannot both be true. It is not possible that both Islam - which teaches that the Creator never had a Son, that our Savior never died on the Cross, and that Judas died on the Cross - and Christianity are both true. To say one can believe both religions (ditto Hinduism and Buddhism, etc.) is at best classic cognitive dissonance.

Or, as we are told in the Bible, "Choose this day whom you will serve." You cannot rationally say you are okay with a book that asks Allah to kill Christians (among many others), and then say it is part of the "Law" which includes the Bible! That is patently absurd.

"Choose this day whom you will serve."

The One Who is gonna win this argument will be the One Who tells some on Judgment Day "I never knew you."

 

[Albion]

ANYONE CURIOUS: From Masonicdictionary.com...
"Many of our American Masons do not understand that in Continental lodges the Bible is not upon the altar, but that it is lying on the Master's pedestal

Hold it right there. When the term "Continental lodges" is used, it refers to a separate and much smaller movement that has nothing to do with North American (and most other Western) lodges.

In fact, American Masons are required to have nothing to do with those Continental lodges which, by any standards are quite different.

You didn't know this, of course, but that's why asking someone who knows these things might be better than just putting one's complete faith into something found on the internet.

 

[Gregory95]

My friend, Russian news openly talks about a world order, however how they lay it out and how its laid out in theories is different. Here is a link of Russian media.

Russia, China and the New World Order

Hope all have a great day!

You naturally are curious when reading all those scary websites and publications that make Freemasonry out to be some conspiracy, have something to do with the Illuminati, or other nonsense. None of it is true, however.

By the way all discussions of Masonry are supposed to be posted in the Conspiracy Theories forum, so I recommend that you put your questions there where they can--and will--be answered.

 

[Albion]

Yes, Communism envisions a world order (under itself) and some countries have a similar vision themselves.

But this discussion is about Freemasonry which has nothing to do with any such thing.

 

[LoricaLady]

Hold it right there. When the term "Continental lodges" is used, it refers to a separate and much smaller movement that has nothing to do with North American (and most other Western) lodges.

In fact, American Masons are required to have nothing to do with those Continental lodges which, by any standards are quite different.

You didn't know this, of course, but that's why asking someone who knows these things might be better than ust putting one's complete faith into something found on the internet.

:

So I should put my trust in someone on the internet on a prayer forum? You said American Free Masonry Lodges are to have nothing to do with Continental Lodges. You don't say that American Lodges are to have nothing to do with the Koran - which is what this discussion has really been about. It seems to me there have been many deflections and dodges in your posts, away from the actual subject matter and documentation. Mho.

From npr.org, National Public Radio:
"The House of the Temple, the headquarters of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States, is an impressive and dignified edifice on Washington's 16th Street. The design was inspired by the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, in Turkey. A couple of sphinxes on huge pedestals flank the steps.

In the center of the temple room is a large altar. Brent Morris, a mathematician by trade and editor of the Scottish Rite Journal, tells Robert Siegel that when a Masonic meeting is open, a volume of sacred law is open representing God's revelation to man."

"When a man becomes a member," Morris says, "he is asked to place his hand upon the book that he considers binding on his conscience." The temple has copies of the Bible, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Old Testament, the Zend-Avesta, the Sutras and the Quran."

I think your posts have been quite helpful, so for that I thank you! You have posted your point of view - to a limited extent because you certainly did not answer some questions I asked you. This gave me a springboard to post links - with pictures - showing a totally contradictory point of view.

I think anyone who is interested and looks at those linked pictures, as well as your posts and mine, can see the truth if he or she wants to do so. To me it seems ultra obvious. As for you and me, again, I don't feel you are actually addressing the points made, but too often changing the subject. That approach can go on endlessly. I leave it to the readers to decide for themselves what is true. I think I've said all that needs to be said, and presented as much documentation as is necessary to make my own points.

Again, though, the One Who will Judge will be the Judge of all the earth. And He said "You shall have no other gods before me..." and to not do what the pagans do.

 

[Albion]

:

So I should put my trust in someone on the internet on a prayer forum?

Perhaps not automatically, but someone who knows the subject obviously is more likely to have the correct facts than someone who is just repeating some nonsensical hearsay. I would say, also, that you have some reasons to judge what the former person actually says, and Masons here have pointed out innumerable errors in the claims made by various Conspiracy theorists.

It also makes sense, as any serious researcher knows, NOT to confine yourself to the Conspiracy theorists without giving any credence to the Masonic websites that take on all the same, tired, allegations you are repeating.

Here is information about all of that. You will recognize the interviewer who is not a Mason. The reason I am reluctant is answer some of those trivia questions you put to me, is that a piecemeal approach is endless and likely to lead to various misunderstandings. Take a look at this:

You said American Free Masonry Lodges are to have nothing to do with Continental Lodges. You don't say that American Lodges are to have nothing to do with the Koran - which is what this discussion has really been about.

It is just as well that you write that. I have already explained to what extent the Koran is used in American Masonry. If a rare Moslem joins, he is allowed to be initiated, using his own holy book (which I think is what happens in court when a Moslem is being sworn in as a witness also).

Otherwise, it is never a feature of the lodge proceedings although the Bible always is. You made it sound as though the two are side-by-side in normal, routine circumstances, and that is absolutely false.

I think your posts have been quite helpful, so for that I thank you! You have posted your point of view - to a limited extent because you certainly did not answer some questions I asked you. This gave me a springboard to post links - with pictures - showing a totally contradictory point of view.

I would be interested to know, specifically, which ones those might be. What I saw was a collage of pictures without proper identification as to what they represent or where they came from. The pictures of a Koran on the table is a good example of that misinformation.

I think anyone who is interested and looks at those linked pictures, as well as your posts and mine, can see the truth if he or she wants to do so.

Well, I should also add that some of those pictures are flatly bogus. They are what someone has created in order to represent what their Conspiracy theory is saying but they actually have no reality to them.

 

[LoricaLady]

Goodbye Albion.

 

[Rick Otto]

So secret you can contact a grand lodge online, ask to petition, they send out a few members and you can join! Wow, they are really hiding something. It's a public organization with secrets like a workers union, Rotary Club, Toastmasters, etc. Years ago I stopped by a lodge because I seen a door open and I've always wanted to see what it looked like inside. I yelled hello through the door and a nice fella greeted me and gave me a tour of the building. He was in the back crushing pop cans to raise money for The Children's Hospital.

That's the secret.

They crush cans to raise money to help children.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Yep.
smh
Sounds too good to be true.
Not the fact that a bunch of well meaning guys do good things,... not that part.
That wouldn't be a conspiracy. That wouldn't be anything to keep secret.
But that would be a perfect curtain to hide some lever pulling and button pushing on the control - of - society level. The machinery of control necessary to produce and execute theatre on a political level. All ya gotta do is provide a fancy hall & some smiling faces directing a bunch of good eggs.
Pretty inexpensive.
You ought to look into the theory for awhile at least so you understand what the whole thing is about. It's easy to get triggered and completely forget this is just a hobbies & entertainment forum.

 

[Rick Otto]

Muslims are involved in charity work, too. But their Koran stills asks Allah to destroy Christians. And btw those same believers in the Koran are freely welcomed into Free Masonry and have quite a few lodges around the world.

Only the Holy Spirit can make you see the obvious. This is not a debate forum anyway, so that is another reason for me not to even try.

How refreshingly weird.
Someone who understands this forum.
Oh, and look! You've read 1Cor2:14!
I almost never get to actually discuss a theory because people who never contribute or discuss are allowed to persistently debate without substantiation of any sort, and without ever answering questions or doing much if any research.
So, it's not as much fun as what I thought I was signing up for.
Hang tough.

 

[Rick Otto]

"In fact, American Masons are required to have nothing to do with those Continental lodges which, by any standards are quite different."
A perfect example of the of the "compartmentalization" that separates the good egg soldiers from the evil generals ( lol ).
To the general public as well as the average mason, "it's all good".
Only a crazy person would think otherwise.
Or maybe a little dog comes along and pulls the curtain back...

 

[JM]

Yep.
smh
Sounds too good to be true.
Not the fact that a bunch of well meaning guys do good things,... not that part.
That wouldn't be a conspiracy. That wouldn't be anything to keep secret.
But that would be a perfect curtain to hide some lever pulling and button pushing on the control - of - society level. The machinery of control necessary to produce and execute theatre on a political level. All ya gotta do is provide a fancy hall & some smiling faces directing a bunch of good eggs.
Pretty inexpensive.
You ought to look into the theory for awhile at least so you understand what the whole thing is about. It's easy to get triggered and completely forget this is just a hobbies & entertainment forum.

Rick, is there a chance you are just biased against Freemasons and fallen down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories?

Yours in Christ,

jm

 

[Rick Otto]

Yes, Communism envisions a world order (under itself) and some countries have a similar vision themselves.

But this discussion is about Freemasonry which has nothing to do with any such thing.

It has everything to do with it in a conspiracy theory forum.

 

[Rick Otto]

Rick, is there a chance you are just biased against Freemasons and fallen down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories?

Yours in Christ,

jm

JM, did it occur to you that you might have succumbed to the demonization of the term "conspiracy theory" as a result of the CIA psy - op called "Project Mockingbird" launched after the Warren Report's "creative forensics" didn't hold up? Do You know what a psy - op is? Do you know what the Warren Report is? Do you know what Operation Mockingbird is?
Did you come here to discuss conspiracy theory or just deny it without investigating it?
It's hard to tell.

Another thing that really annoys me is how "you guys" get to say " Rick,... " as if you're being friendly by using my name - a courtesy you don't extend yourself, and then project bias while expressing it in the same breath "fell down...".

So fool yourself with your phony friendliness and intellectually dishonest question, but that behavior is silly in a hobbies and entertainment forum.
If it ain't your thang, no problem... unless you make it one.
Nobody likes nagging doubters.
Try News & Current Events.