Why do fellow creationists use natural explanations to unnatural events?

[geoant]

The big creationist explanation for the rock layers are semi-natural. I use to agree with this. But after looking for myself.... this is not what my eyes are telling me. Why are we looking for a natural explanation to an event we know to NOT be natural??

 

[JackRT]

Are you suggesting that rock layers are not natural?

 

[geoant]

Yes i am. If you watch the video you will see why I now think this way. But are you suggesting they are being created today naturally? Please, show me where. Then we will zoom the camera out a bit and compare your example to the actual massive flat rock layers created in the past. Let me see why you think these layers were created naturally.

 

[Within Reason]

The big creationist explanation for the rock layers are semi-natural. I use to agree with this. But after looking for myself.... this is not what my eyes are telling me. Why are we looking for a natural explanation to an event we know to NOT be natural??

Well what do you think of the following:

 

[coffee4u]

The big creationist explanation for the rock layers are semi-natural. I use to agree with this. But after looking for myself.... this is not what my eyes are telling me. Why are we looking for a natural explanation to an event we know to NOT be natural??

Sorry, not watching a 55-minute video, but we know the rock layers formed during the flood and we know God caused the flood. Rain and mudslides and volcanoes are 'natural' phenomenon though even when caused by God.

30 Years Later, the Lessons from Mount St. Helens
So there are still natural events like Mount St. Helens that can change the rock layers.

What creationists are you actually referring to?

 

[MrsFoundit]

The big creationist explanation for the rock layers are semi-natural. I use to agree with this. But after looking for myself.... this is not what my eyes are telling me. Why are we looking for a natural explanation to an event we know to NOT be natural??

Hi, I do not expect a natural explanation.

Creation was a supernatural event, science cannot be expected to detect it.

 

[Contenders Edge]

The big creationist explanation for the rock layers are semi-natural. I use to agree with this. But after looking for myself.... this is not what my eyes are telling me. Why are we looking for a natural explanation to an event we know to NOT be natural??

That really depends on whether you are talking a Young Earth Creationist or a Progressive Creationist. Progressive Creationists, though rejecting biological evolution still adhere to the Lyellian doctrine of uniformitarianism which is a major tenet of Darwinism which teaches that all of the geologic formations and fossils we see today were formed over a long period of time. They believe that most of the geologic formations we see today were formed by an act of nature instead of a supernatural act.

Young Earth Creationists, who accept the Genesis account of creation as actual history, believe that the vast majority of the geologic formations we see were formed supernaturally via the flood of Noah and that which was not an act of the global flood was due to a lesser post catastrophic event.

Those professing Creationists who hold to some of the tenets of Darwin and attempt the impossible task of harmonizing them with scripture have relied too much on science, which is the study of the natural world as it presently is, to explain a past event, including that which is supernatural.

Science was only meant to explain the present workings of the natural world. It was not intended to present a historical record of past events, nor was it meant to explain supernatural events. It is the study of the present natural world by which discoveries have been made which have led to the harnessing of electricity, advancements in medicine and medical technology, the illumination of our homes with light bulbs, that have led to the invention of swift modes of transportation such as planes, trains, and automobiles, that made way for faster means of relaying information and the spreading of knowledge such as the printing press, telephones, radio, television, computers, the internet, e-mail, and social media, which have sent satellites into space, have placed men on the moon, and which led men like Sir Isaac Newton to define the law of gravity.

Darwin had nothing to do with any scientific discoveries and advancements from which we benefit. He only popularized and refined a philosophy pertaining to the origins of life which has never been observed or replicated. Scientific discoveries and advancements were being made before Darwinism was ever conceived or embraced and have continued, not because of him, but in spite of him.

The sooner the Church acquires a proper understanding of what science is and what it is not, the better able it can be seen that scripture and science do not conflict with each other. If there is any science that is at odds with the scriptures, then it is not a science but a pseudo-science because true science never has, nor will it ever present any discovery contrary to the divinely inspired and inerrant Word of God.

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes i am. If you watch the video you will see why I now think this way. But are you suggesting they are being created today naturally? Please, show me where. Then we will zoom the camera out a bit and compare your example to the actual massive flat rock layers created in the past. Let me see why you think these layers were created naturally.

You can go to any beach, stick your shovel in the sand and can observe flat deposited layers.

Here is a shot I took this past summer at the beach.

These layers are just as flat as those found in rocks and are laterally continuous across the entire beach and inland as well.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...uid-mud-deposits-in-the-Mayaro_fig8_327455510

Here are volcanic layers of strata:
Volcanic Deposits at Okmok

These types of layers are readily observed forming around the world. You can go to Hawaii and find new layers after lava flows. Or you can go to strata volcanoes around Indonesia or Japan and can observe fresh layers forming after ongoing eruptions today.

Here are images of ash layers, slowly being buried more and more over time before their ultimate lithification.

Stock Photo - Earth with layers of volcanic ash in Hofdabrekka, Iceland Layers of ash from Katla volcanic eruptions dating back to 1918 ,1823

The observed layers are flat and laterally continuous. Ash from volcanoes has been know to be deposited literally miles in radius around stratovolcanoes.

Upon extensive burial, they become more and more flat as the sediment continues to pile up on top of them more and more.

If you are wondering about massive formations such as the kaibab limestone (what you're depicting?), This is an under-sea originating formation. An ancient continental margin.
Continental margin - Wikipedia

Here:
A contourite depositional system along the Uruguayan continental margin: Sedimentary, oceanographic and paleoceanographic implications - ScienceDirect

In the above link we have a cross section of a continental margin in uraguay (see figures 6 through 10). The margin has thick sequences of sediment that are continuously becoming thicker in today's time. The layers are laterally continuous for miles, and they're flat. These layers are also miles deep. This would be more similar to your example from Colorado.

 

[JackRT]

The sooner the Church acquires a proper understanding of what science is and what it is not, the better able it can be seen that scripture and science do not conflict with each other.

Speaking as both a Christian and as a scientist that would be wonderful and would resolve all our problems.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Speaking as both a Christian and as a scientist that would be wonderful and would resolve all our problems.

The problem is that the Church has bought into Darwinian lies. If we would disavow ourselves of those lies, our minds may then be clear enough to view science the way it was intended.​

 

[geoant]

You can go to any beach, stick your shovel in the sand and can observe flat deposited layers.
View attachment 272399

Here is a shot I took this past summer at the beach.

These layers are just as flat as those found in rocks and are laterally continuous across the entire beach and inland as well.

.

You have to zoom out
Beaches are narrow strips, not large expansive plates.
Nearly every beach is where the land is being eroded away, they are not capable of piling very high. and the high spots are sand dunes.... not flat geologic alternating layers.

Volcanoes.. you hit the nail on the head. The one example that fully matches. Unfortunately they are infrequent in the geologic column. Why do all historical layers have the same properties as those deposited by volcanoes?

 

[geoant]

The problem is that the Church has bought into Darwinian lies. If we would disavow ourselves of those lies, our minds may then be clear enough to view science the way it was intended.​

I know, and like a fool I fell for it! "everyone else believes, so my eyes must be lying to me" what a fool I was.

 

[geoant]

What creationists are you actually referring to?

unfortunately all of them. they all have this natural story in the background. "something happened, then the earth did this, then the earth did this." When I made the video I was trying to prove my semi natural theory. I ended up proving myself wrong when I looked with my own eyes. What I found scares the heck out of me. I understand why people want a natural explanation.

 

[coffee4u]

unfortunately all of them. they all have this natural story in the background. "something happened, then the earth did this, then the earth did this." When I made the video I was trying to prove my semi natural theory. I ended up proving myself wrong when I looked with my own eyes. What I found scares the heck out of me. I understand why people want a natural explanation.

Are you sure they are not talking the way I said -rain is a natural event even if caused by God, same goes for volcanoes, wind etc. So yes, the earth would do something if X happened. Just because it's natural doesn't mean God didn't cause it.

Can you find a link to what you mean? Something to read in a minute or two?

 

[Job 33:6]

You have to zoom out
Beaches are narrow strips, not large expansive plates.
Nearly every beach is where the land is being eroded away, they are not capable of piling very high. and the high spots are sand dunes.... not flat geologic alternating layers.

Volcanoes.. you hit the nail on the head. The one example that fully matches. Unfortunately they are infrequent in the geologic column. Why do all historical layers have the same properties as those deposited by volcanoes?


View attachment 272417 View attachment 272419

Did you read the rest of my post? I gave an example of a continental margin which stretched several miles as well. The Atlantic coastal plain is some 300 miles wide.

Volcanoes are actually very common in the geologic column. I don't know why you think they aren't. If we took the time, we could find more volcanic layers than we could count.

Also, beaches are narrow strips at the present time, but as we all know, beaches change location with time. Some beaches erode away, some grow and extend. And this is exactly what we see in the geologic column in oceanic trans and regressive sequences.

 

[Job 33:6]

@geoant

Also, of you zoom out further, you can see that formations are actually slightly sloped just about everywhere you go.

The Grand Staircase. Zion and Grand canyon - Utah, Arizona Geology | Most visited national parks, Canyons utah, Historical maps

You will almost never find strata that is perfectly horizontal as you seem to be suggesting.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

The big creationist explanation for the rock layers are semi-natural. I use to agree with this. But after looking for myself.... this is not what my eyes are telling me. Why are we looking for a natural explanation to an event we know to NOT be natural??

Generally speaking if you offer a solution to a problem and that solution does not even pretend to have anything real on it people tend to not take you or your solution seriously. This might make you feel bad.

Thus creationists try to get some physical evidence that would promote their fantasy and discredit the physical evidence. It is quite logical.

 

[Job 33:6]

You have to zoom out
Beaches are narrow strips, not large expansive plates.
Nearly every beach is where the land is being eroded away, they are not capable of piling very high. and the high spots are sand dunes.... not flat geologic alternating layers.


View attachment 272417 View attachment 272419

Your drawn diagram is also easily contradicted by the real world where you suggest that beaches do not grow. Many beaches are commonly known to grow.

Taking Stock of the World’s Sandy Beaches

From nasa.gov:
"They also found that 24 percent of those sandy beaches—a coastline distance of almost 80,000 kilometers (50,000 miles)—had eroded at rates exceeding 0.5 meters per year. Another 28 percent of sandy beaches had accreted (grew),"

In your second photo, you have green arrows showing a sloped space saying that layers today form with slopes. But that's just eroded rock. If you want to look eroded rock then all you have to do is look at a geologic continental fan.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ine-shown-in-Figure-2-modified_fig3_287353024

Many layers of strata in the earth are not flat nor do they even begin to resemble anything flat. In the above image is strata of a historic aluvial fan that is strongly sloped. It stretches hundreds of miles.

 

[Job 33:6]

And one last post for now. Where land is flat on earth, is often a product of erosion as well.

For example, the Appalachian mountains are no longer growing, and with time, they've eroded into more of a rolling hills kind of.mountain chain, rather than something the eastern rockies or the jagged himilayas. The same thing happens with lower lying regions. Areas are uplifted and eroded to a flat position.

Here is another example:
Google Image Result for https://i.pinimg.com/originals/90/86/c7/9086c77166500b2f6faf233536297df3.jpg

In today's time we might look at it and might say, well, in the future we might see boulders in this strata.

But in reality, what we see are erosional forces leveling the land prior to lithification. Which is another reason why layers often have a relatively flat appearance and are often of a similar thickness over space.

Just like a sand castle trends toward a flat layer if you poured water over it, rocks do the same, they break down, they level out.

 

[LoG]

The big creationist explanation for the rock layers are semi-natural. I use to agree with this. But after looking for myself.... this is not what my eyes are telling me. Why are we looking for a natural explanation to an event we know to NOT be natural??

Good video and enjoyed your points. Makes a mockery of the idea that geologists supposedly cannot find evidence for a flood.