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Featured Why do evangelicals care so much about disproving evolution?

Discussion in 'Creation & Theistic Evolution' started by Marc Perry, Sep 16, 2020 at 6:06 PM.

  1. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Disprove evolution?

    Can't disprove something that has yet to be proven.
     
  2. Paulus59

    Paulus59 Active Member

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    I don't have any problems with evolution. A Christian can believe in evolution and believe in Christ as well as long as you are born again true Christian who accepts the Gospel and the truths on Jesus. Maybe these evangelicals fear if they believe in evolution they maybe committing some sort of heresy?

    Mind you I have no problems with Christians not believing in evolution either as that is their choice and I respect that. I don't want to offend any Christians that don't believe in evolution as believing or not believing in evolution will not affect your salvation provided you believe and love Jesus. Like certain topics in the scripture it boils down to a doctrine of belief - though the Gospel is non-negotiable.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 12:12 AM
  3. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    The world has a history which is mainly mysterious and cannot be read by science which is an inadequate tool for the task, despite its recent pretensions and the investment of so many man hours. In the absence of certainty the bible account of 6 days of creation more recently is a better way to understand our origins in God and our essential dignity as creatures made in Gods image.
     
  4. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    It is a plausible explanation and different from my one earlier to suggest that the scientists read the world accurately but that everything was pretty much created as is a few thousand years ago including all the markers which they have read as determining a much greater age. That would mean light from supernovas that exploded 250000 years ago being created in transit from a star than never existed for instance and would imply the earth was indeed central to Gods plan for creation and the rest of the universe just a big light show set up to mark the events on earth, as astrologers have believed for most of human history. It is possible but I think it easier and more honest to say we just do not know and science cannot provide a clarity here so we might as well just trust a literal reading of the bible account.
     
  5. usexpat97

    usexpat97 kewlness

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    Disprove = something is definitively NOT true.
    Prove = something definitively IS true.

    Thus, not only can you disprove something that has not been proven--but you can ONLY disprove something that has not been proven.
    .
     
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  6. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    Yep there is no experiment by which an Old Universe, Big Bang, Abiogenesis or Macro Evolution has been demonstrated. Rather we have a lot of words about how this means that and that means this. But it is all non scientific speculation in the end when it comes to remote cosmology, our origins and the deeper mysteries of human nature.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 12:19 AM
  7. Paulus59

    Paulus59 Active Member

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    Deleted. :oldthumbsup:
     
  8. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    It is possible there is a gap which could be an unspecified number of billions of years between verse 1 and 2. Then come 6 days of forming and filling. That would answer questions about an old universe but would still produce conflicts with macroevolutionary and abiogenesis theories as all life would still be created a few thousand years ago.

    Not sure those nearer to the writing of the texts ever interpreted it this way though.
     
  9. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

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    Because evolution destroys the gospel message. It is in strict contrast to scripture.

    The Bible says God created man in his image with a spirit and a close relationship to himself. How does that picture fit in with a man that slowly evolved from an ape?

    The Bible says it was man who ruined the relationship, that he disobeyed and fell creating sin and death. This is why mankind needed a saviour. Where does sin come from in evolution? Where does the spirit come from?
    The Bible says sin entered through one man, Adam; if Adam is an allegory how would that make sense? Adam died 930 years later, how does an allegory die? The Bible says that Christ is the second Adam, again there must be a first Adam for there to be a second.
    The Bible says death is the wages of sin, that sin caused and brought in death. In direct contrast, evolution says that death is just part of life and needed for evolution. Both can't be true.

    No Adam, no sin — no sin, no death and corruption — no death and corruption, no point for Jesus.

    How can someone say the Bible is God's breathed sacred word yet go along with evolution? My guess is they don't. Instead, they will say Genesis isn't correct, but what about all the other verses pertaining to creation through both the Old and the New Testaments? If the Bible isn't God's word and it isn't trustworthy why bother with any of it?

    "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not," said Jesus, "how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" (John 3:12).
     
  10. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    Because of an inability to separate in their minds the actual definition of evolution (which is change over time) and biological process of organisms changing on a genetic level over generations.... from an atheistic worldview that teaches evolution as the source of life.
    the reality of evolution is that it is NOT the source of life, but is just a biological process that happens IN life. That life was originally created, it did not happen randomly, it did not happen on its own.
     
  11. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    The atheistic evolutionist would have an explanation for lifes origins in Abiogenesis. But since this is impossible to prove or demonstrate it does not provide an alternative to a Creationist view. Creationists do accept a degree of evolution within a type. So there were not 43 species of sparrow on the Ark for instance and Neanderthal and Homo Sapiens are both human.
     
  12. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    I've always wondered about the Gap theory, an idea that God created this current Earth from the remains of a prior creation. I mean, it's not that far fetched considering that God will make a New Earth, and the Earth abides forever. The surface of the earth gets destroyed by fire, but as far as I know the new earth is based on the old planet, otherwise the earth does not abide forever.

    Genesis 1 reads like cliff notes rather than a detailed explanation of the origins of everything.
    Biblical history aligns with human history but other physical evidence such as ice cores and rock layers show an older planet. Fossilized remains of plants and animals we've never encountered.

    A gap in which God had had a previous version of earth, with life, but then decided to purge it and remake it with man, would explain the discrepancy between the physical evidence, and the word.

    The only other way is to think that God was making things to deliberately trick people, which doesn't fit into Romans 1:19-20 at all, that God makes the observance of nature itself declare that there is a God that created it, He wouldn't put in evidence that people use to claim He doesn't exist, and as far as I know, Satan doesn't get to create things.

    So there is another mystery at work.
     
  13. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's where I fall. The key word is "kind" and that does not mean "species" as we know it today, and we know that some closely related species can interbreed, showing that the mechanics of how evolution works is sound and the logic pans out that if you have sexual reproduction, eventually life is going to change over generations.
    But as far as macroevolution goes where things actually develop from one "kind" to another, that takes leaps of logic that are inconsistent, and we don't find the evidence of it happening, we find discrete species not transitional species.
    Which means that evolution is not a cause in itself, it's just a process, and there is another cause (namely, God)
     
  14. johneb

    johneb Member

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    If God gave me a stone today that he made yesterday and I took it to a geologist and asked "how old is this rock?" The geologist may reply "it is less than fifty million years old" that would not be a incorrect answer.
    God created Adam and Eve with a appearance of age, they did not grow to be adults they were made as adults. God created the heavens and the earth, how do we know that those were not created with the appearance of age?
     
  15. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    The Genesis text says that God made the lights in the sky to mark seasons etc. If they serve a merely geocentric purpose the key to understanding the stars is the earth. If so then cosmology is wasting its time looking for the stars in themselves. The whole thing would just be a light show put on for earths benefit. It would not be trickery on Gods part to point to stars that could never have existed in a Creationist time frame cause the light of these stars was never about the stars themselves but rather the effect the light show had on people on earth

    Not saying this is my view but it seems a biblically plausible explanation and was the standard view of astrologers until a few centuries ago
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 2:58 AM
  16. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Well-Known Member

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    Theory of evolution is the most tested theory there is and so far at least supported by multiple fields of science and physical evidence.

    But sure, I can understand that not being enough.

    What is your evidence for a creation event that will pass your stringent criteria of proof ?
     
  17. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Well-Known Member

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    So hundreds of billions of galaxies each with hundreds of of billions stars and around those stars untold billions of planets......think of the scale of this for a 10 seconds......just created to give humans sense of time in their reference frame on earth.

    Ever figure out it would have been easier just to give people some kind of innate sense of time ?

    In addition to absurdity of this in first place why would there be planets around those stars if they were merely made as wrist watches for us?

    And yes we know there are planets through various means after analyzing stars luminosity and orbital mechanics.

    It kind of baffles the mind that we can have a private company sending a Tesla EV on space while some people still think stars were created so we could figure out what time of the year it was.
     
  18. LukeF

    LukeF New Member

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    Because believing in evolution...

    (1) ...reaches to the heart of the gospel. It's not as simple as everyone having differences of opinion about creation. If there was death before the fall (before mankind) then there was death prior to sin. So sins' relationship to death is practically lost. Jesus DIED for SINS and RESURRECTED from DEATH. Trying to bring evolution into Genesis makes death as if it was 'just creation-normal' and diminishes everything the Gospel is at it's heart, let alone what Jesus did. What's the significance if everything died anyway, before sin?

    (2) The Bible comments A LOT back on creation, from Exodus, to the Psalms, to Paul's letters, to Jesus (it's not just Genesis you play with when you play with Genesis). Passages such as Romans 8 talking of the "decay" of creation also becomes highly problematic if you state that essentially 'decay' (evolution/mistakes/death) was before sin. So sin introduced into creation [insert... what?]. So one has to feel like they are twisting the Scriptures A LOT to believe it.

    (3) Related to this, Christians can feel those that want to believe in evolution as well as God have succumb to an elevation of something external to the word of God as being 'over' it. The Bible doesn't address mathematics and how to send a spaceship to Mars, but it DOES address creation and the end of creation. So on what it speaks, we should hear it and hold it as THE authority on the matter.

    ... so the strong reaction is more-so a Christian thing, though the evidence against evolution is also strong. The stronger thing is the love of the Gospel, which drives the organisations who look at 'evidence things'.

    The arguments used to marry Scripture WITH evolution are really garbage-worthy. Like (e.g.#1) arguing that Genesis 1 doesn't describe "how" God created, but "who" creatied. re: who was revealed in verse 1. Literally the whole chapter is how. (e.g.#2) arguing that the days weren't normal length [24hr] days. The sentence context is immediately that "there was evening and there was morning" and Exodus references this as the pattern to follow for the Sabbath, that in six days God made the earth, so we should work six days and then rest. (...etc!)
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 4:40 AM
  19. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have and I believe it is the truth. It makes perfect sense and it fits the Bible narrative.
     
  20. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    This was not my view, I was just explaining the perspective.

    But in answer to the presuppositions of your post:

    1) You do not know if there are hundreds of billions of stars, planets and galaxies. You can just machine count and analyse the electromagnetic signatures of dots you see in the sky

    2) The extravagance of Gods creation is not an argument in itself against geocentrism of purpose. God could have made the stars as earths wristwatch. So what if he did.

    3) The sun , moon and stars ARE the way we measure time - day,night,years etc

    4) The limits of realistic human travel expectations in the next century is just this solar system. We msy be able to confirm many speculations as facts by this experience but the stars will remain mysterious.
     
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