Why do Christians

[Albion]

You can seriously ask that question after looking at Protestantism? When the first Protestants broke away from the original and true Christian Church, they decided they would find God's truth "in the Bible alone". Now, a few hundred years later, there are more than 6,000 different Protestant denominations, plus 20,000 so-called "non-denominational" Protestant churches, each one still claiming to be teaching God's truth right from the Bible, yet the teaching of each denomination contradicting the teaching of the others.

Sure. Compare thousands of different denominations with different origins...and you are going to get a bunch of different doctrines. How perceptive.

By the way, if we instead compare all the Catholic churches, we find that none of them agrees with any of the other Catholic churches (let alone the thousands of Protestant ones), so what kind of solution to the problem is that?!

 

[dms1972]

Because your interpretation of the Bible is not the same as God saying something.

I'd like to better understand your reply to the OP, who asked why do we need to go outside the Bible? You say because the OP's interpretation may not be the same as God saying something. I agree, but then in going to another individual, or book are we then guaranteed to get what God is saying? Are those people different from the OP in some way, why would going to them not just yield their interpretation?

The problem can be solved if the Bible (as I believe it does) contains both God's Word written, together with Jesus and the Apostles interpretations.

Across the different traditions most regard Scripture (the Old and New Testaments) as God's Word written (any disagreement here is mainly not between churches but between modernists, and fundamentalists).

 

[dms1972]

need to go outside the bible for answers? I see it every day and I don't understand. I can see that if in doubt of what they are reading they need further clarification but most are needing an additional opinion from man. Isn't Gods opinion enough? I find if I loo+k outside the word It only confuses me in most cases and that is when the question comes up. Why isn't God enough?

I think you are raising a worthwhile question. Most people taking part in these forum discussions have a firm standpoint of their own on many of the issues discussed, that's why some threads run and run. Since this is the case I have no problem when the site shuts a thread at some point when those people are in a groove and not likely to break through to any new scriptural insight on a topic, but only bumping up against each other.

I do think we have both God's Word in Scripture and also all that is needed for interpretation in Scripture. But sadly its possible to read the Bible in pride, and miss the meaning of a passage of scripture.

The important thing is to not separate the Word and the Spirit.

Application is yet another aspect of what we do with Scripture, its based on Interpretation but not exactly the same thing. Is about how to apply God's Truth in our own lives and within the context in which we live and is going to be somewhat different from person to person but not in violation of Scriptural principles.

Reading books outside the Bible however can be helpful if they provide understanding of biblical times and places and customs etc.

[Edit] I'd also add that, one or two books on early church history during its first two or three centuries written around that time, might be well worth having in ones possession, for they can show what early consensus there may have been about of authorship of certain books in the Bible. Since modern scholarship (at least from the 19th century) has generated more heat than light on those questions, one or two of these early works can be worth consulting from time to time.

 

[Anthony2019]

This is going to confuse even more people, I think, but your reply here, Anthony, is actually a rejection of Sacred Tradition and an endorsement of the principle of Sola Scriptura.

I certainly hope that wasn't the case!!
I think what I was trying to explain - and probably not very well - is that scripture, reason and tradition have to be integrated. Probably one of the best analogies I have heard to explain the relationship is the "three legged stool" (as understood by Anglican theologian Richard Hooker) or the "Wesley quadrilateral".

 

[Albion]

I certainly hope that wasn't the case!!
I think what I was trying to explain - and probably not very well - is that scripture, reason and tradition have to be integrated. Probably one of the best analogies I have heard to explain the relationship is the "three legged stool" (as understood by Anglican theologian Richard Hooker) or the "Wesley quadrilateral".

Yes, but that three-legged or four-legged stool analogy does not make reason or tradition, for instance, the equal of the Bible. That is what the so-called "Sacred Tradition" approach as used in the various Catholic churches does.

What it is saying is that the Bible is to be interpreted USING these other aids. Get it? They are how we comprehend Scripture, not that Scripture is no better than any of them or all of them used as authorities on their own.

 

[Copperhead]

need to go outside the bible for answers? I see it every day and I don't understand. I can see that if in doubt of what they are reading they need further clarification but most are needing an additional opinion from man. Isn't Gods opinion enough? I find if I look outside the word It only confuses me in most cases and that is when the question comes up. Why isn't God enough?

Generally, that is true. But even the scripture quotes passages and such from "extra-biblical" sources. The best examples are Jude 1:14-15 and 2 Timothy 3:8. We would not have known what Enoch preached, nor would we have known the names of those that opposed Moshe in Eqypt if these writers had not included information that is not contained in scripture.

True, one cannot hold extra-biblical texts on the same level as scripture, but that doesn't mean they cannot lend insight as long as they don't contradict scripture. And the key is not contradicting scripture, not contradicting people's interpretation of scripture.

 

[Albion]

Generally, that is true. But even the scripture quotes passages and such from "extra-biblical" sources.

so then, these are part of...the Bible.

 

[Copperhead]

so then, these are part of...the Bible.

But the comments are from extra-biblical texts. Just because I include a quote or reference from some other writing in a writing of mine doesn't make it mine.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

need to go outside the bible for answers? I see it every day and I don't understand. I can see that if in doubt of what they are reading they need further clarification but most are needing an additional opinion from man. Isn't Gods opinion enough? I find if I look outside the word It only confuses me in most cases and that is when the question comes up. Why isn't God enough?

Basically because the Bible doesn't explain itself nor translate itself. So, most of us have to go somewhere else to find the missing information that will help us to better evaluate and consider the meaning and application of what it is we 'think' we're reading when we read the Bible.

 

[Copperhead]

This is especially true when it comes to unique words or structures in the text, By referring to other writings that use these things, we can better ascertain the correct meaning.

 

[lsume]

need to go outside the bible for answers? I see it every day and I don't understand. I can see that if in doubt of what they are reading they need further clarification but most are needing an additional opinion from man. Isn't Gods opinion enough? I find if I look outside the word It only confuses me in most cases and that is when the question comes up. Why isn't God enough?

You have pointed out Truth here. The Word Stands forever. Man shall live by every Word that Proceedeth out of The Mouth of God. Man’s books will never take the place of The Word. However, until someone is awakened, they can’t see The Word.

 

[Lost4words]

You have pointed out Truth here. The Word Stands forever. Man shall live by every Word that Proceedeth out of The Mouth of God. Man’s books will never take the place of The Word. However, until someone is awakened, they can’t see The Word.

Problem being, awakened by what! Satan is a good manipulator.

This is another reason why it is beneficial to have the knowledge, authority and workings of the Holy Spirit as evident in 'the' church.

 

[lsume]

Problem being, awakened by what! Satan is a good manipulator.

This is another reason why it is beneficial to have the knowledge, authority and workings of the Holy Spirit as evident in 'the' church.

I’m fairly sure that you should know the difference immediately. However, the present darkness has penetrated almost all of media and people in general don’t want The Truth. “Because they loved not the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness”.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

Sorry, i must have somehow missed a lot of what OP wrote...

I think understanding the Bible is not always easy, and i think it's a bit of a team effort to get to better understand it.
But some people are better at it than others, so they should end up helping others understand things.

And what if they are wrong?

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

That's an excellent point. If Scripture requires interpretation...let it be interpreted! The idea that because something requires interpreting on occasion, its worth is therefore called into question just does not make sense.

Shouldn’t it be at least questioned? A human interpretation can easily be wrong.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

How about deciding which one of the interpreters best knows his trade?? That is what we do with everything else in life--choice of college, which doctor to have operate on you, which lawyer is most likely to get you freed in court, which car is the most reliable. And so on.

Time and again in daily life we discriminate between good and bad advice and between competent and incompetent workers, etc., but when it comes to the Bible....

Then we are supposed to throw up our hands and say "There's no way of knowing which of these men has it right and which ones arguments just don't hold up."

What sense does that make??

We do make a lot of choices but humans interpreting God I have admit does seem a little off. I always have to keep in the back of my mind that when people say this is my interpretation that they could be wrong.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

The difficulty is that there are many, many opinions on what certain passages of Scripture mean.

We see dozens of threads in the General Theology forum debating everything from the deity of Christ, to whether a Christian can have sex before marrying, to whether baptism is salvific or totally optional, to whether the Real Presence is True, to what the End Times will look like....

On and on. Often, Scripture does have what should be a clear answer to or at least inference on the issue, but we still debate it. Other times, it's extremely unclear. And debatable. This is why the body of Christ, the Saints, men and women very close to God while on earth, have also given us the meaning of Scripture through their writings, and life.

I think what you said makes a lot of sense but I have to ask as someone who is still learning so much.... what if those men and woman who were so close to God we’re wrong in their writings?

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

We all have different gifts, there are people who are gifted in interpreting scriptures, they have an ability to understand the true meaning of God's word. I think it's helpful for those who don't have such gifts to seek for interpretations from people who do, this doesn't mean God isn't enough, God gave those gifts to people in order for them to help others understand better, God bless

I can’t just trust someone to explain to me what God means? How could I ever put that much trust in a human being? There’s gotta be another way I’m thinking then just trusting a person to explain and help me understand God.

 

[Copperhead]

And what if they are wrong?

That is the main reason that I have settled on the Torah requirement as affirmed by the Bereans in Acts 17: The Torah requirement is that for any matter to be established, it must be so on the testimony or 2 or more witnesses. The Bereans showed us that any concept that is expounded on from the NT must have equal confirmation in the OT. Amazing the amount of stuff gets weeded out when this methodology is applied. Still may not substantiate the case being made, but it cuts out all the clutter.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

That's certainly possible.

But also a great deal of trust your willing to put in someone who a lot of times you don’t even know.