Why do Christians worship the Son instead of the Father?

[Albion]

The Messiah Yehowshuwa (True Hebrew name) said the greatest commandment is to Love Yehowah his Father with all our hearts mind and soul. Many people now say that Jesus is God.

You can raise your issue on some other of our forums here. I think the right one may be Christianity and World Religion.

 

[War_Eagle]

This is not a good argument

It wasn't an argument. It was a question.

You know the difference, right?

For instance, there is no mention of cursing, doing drugs, watching MA movies being forbidden.....yet we assume that they are.

"No mention"? Really? What Bible are you reading?

So if Jesus state that we are to do one thing.....It doesnt mean that it is ok to do others things that are not specifically addressed.

So, you're saying that the OP is not saying that God is not Triune and Jesus is not God?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I took Spanish in High School and of course, they give you your Spanish name. Because "Ken" doesn't exist as a Spanish name, they used my middle name, Paul... so I was "Pablo." I never understood why we did that because my name is my name but I was just a dumb High School kid so I didn't know better. Later in life I began to study languages and learn of "transliteration" (taking a word into another language using whatever letters are necessary to make it "sound like" the language of origin) and thus I was vindicated... Ken in Spanish was Ken. Si'?

In Japanese class in high school we had to learn how to write our names using Katakana, the syllabary usually used for foreign/loan words in Japanese (though that isn't its exclusive use), and so my name became ジョナサン (Jonosan), there's not getting much around that because the dental fricative ("th") sound doesn't exist in Japanese and can't be transcribed using any Japanese characters. A similar thing happens with the transcription of the Aramaic ישוע into Greek, as Greek doesn't contain a "sh" as corresponds to the Aramaic ש Shin, and so becomes a Sigma, just as no proper equivelent for Yod exists and must be transcribed with an Iota and serve to function consonantally; that coupled with the rules of Greek naming convention to indicate a masculine name ישוע can only really be transcribed in Greek as ΙΗΣΟΥΣ, Iesous.

(I didn't give all this extra information because I think you personally need it, this is mostly in case others might be interested in understanding how these things work)

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Called out]

First, which translation are you citing that calls Jesus "Yehowshuwa"?

Second, the verse you just quoted doesn't say what you claimed.

So, do you have a verse where Jesus says we are to love the Father to the exclusion of the Son and Holy Spirit, or not?

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

 

[Ken Rank]

In Japanese class in high school we had to learn how to write our names using Katakana, the syllabary usually used for foreign/loan words in Japanese (though that isn't its exclusive use), and so my name became ジョナサン (Jonosan), there's not getting much around that because the dental fricative ("th") sound doesn't exist in Japanese and can't be transcribed using any Japanese characters. A similar thing happens with the transcription of the Aramaic ישוע into Greek, as Greek doesn't contain a "sh" as corresponds to the Aramaic ש Shin, and so becomes a Sigma, just as no proper equivelent for Yod exists and must be transcribed with an Iota and serve to function consonantally; that coupled with the rules of Greek naming convention to indicate a masculine name ישוע can only really be transcribed in Greek as ΙΗΣΟΥΣ, Iesous.

(I didn't give all this extra information because I think you personally need it, this is mostly in case others might be interested in understanding how these things work)

-CryptoLutheran

Great points! Iesous was first used as the transliteration of יֵשׁוּעַ (Yeshua) in the Septuagint in 300BC. They used the Greek letters they did because, like you said, sometimes you just don't have exact equivalents. So, Iesous sounds like ee-ay-soo-as with the 's' ending being a Greek cultural addition. Iesous goes into Latin as Iesus (ee-ay-soo) and into English as the same until the J was added which at first sounded like a Y. So, Jesus would have sounded like yee-sus in 1700. Early in the 1800's, the J took on the French influence and the harder sound we have today and we have what we have. Nothing evil, nothing that amounts to anything more of less than the evolution of and oft incompatibility between... languages. I am glad you are here to add a voice of reason in threads like this.

 

[Ken Rank]

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Called Out... here is the deal. You are headed toward Judaism or atheism because you will begin to run into situations you cannot reconcile. The NT does say the Word was God. The NT does say Yeshua was worshiped. The NT does have Yeshua quoting Isaiah 35 and attributing it to himself when that chapter speaks about things that would occur when God comes. I can list off 200 verses or more and I am not exaggerating that show Yeshua to be God as well as the Son. While I am not a Trinitarian (though I see Father, Son, and Spirit as God) the amount of Scripture that states he is God is overwhelming.

I am writing to ask you to perhaps back off and pray and ask God Himself. Because if you have made your mind up, and you won't hear sound reason on the subject any longer... then eventually you will run out of the ability to reconcile every point made and when that happens you will either alter your doctrinal view toward him (less likely) or walk away from the faith (more likely). I have seen this happen literally HUNDREDS of times in the last 20 years in online forums like this. I know what your arguments are, I know what your responses will be to questions you haven't even asked yet. You ARE headed toward denial of Yeshua as messiah unless you are willing to fairly weigh out evidence.

If you are willing, I can supply you with verses that need to be reconciled by you and even a reasonable view using science to show the need for the son to be God. A couple of biblical examples that need to be reconciled... and please remember, I have scores of examples like this...

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

In the above 3 verses that deal with the Holy Spirit, we have the Father sending Him, the Son sending Him, and the Son claiming to be the one who will come. How do you reconcile that?

Here is one more....

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

2 Timothy 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Spirit which dwells in us.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),

So, in us we have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Son, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of the Father..... how many Spirits were there?

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;

So... if you are correct... and there is one Spirit like Paul said (and God is that Spirit - John 4:24) then what is the Spirit of the Father doing in us? What is the Spirit of the Son doing in us? What is the Spirit of Christ doing in us WHEN we are told many times it is the Holy Spirit who dwells in us?

By the way Called Out... these are not contradictions... there is an answer if you are willing to hear it. I won't be on much in the coming weeks and maybe months so you are welcome to look me up on Facebook... same name and profile pic. Shalom.

 

[Strathos]

OP, are you a Muslim? You sound like one.

 

[Hammster]

ADMIN HAT ON


Moved from Ethics & Morality to Christian Apologetics because it’s a better fit here.


ADMIN HAT OFF

 

[Skala]

Matthew 22:37 Yehowshuwa said unto him, Thou shalt love the Yehowah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment.

The Messiah quoted the Old Testament which has the Creators name in it.


Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: Yehowah our God is one Yehowah: 5 And thou shalt love Yehowah thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Most bibles have taken out the creators name YHWH and replaced it with LORD.

The verse you quoted (Matt 22:37) doesn't say "Love the Father..." it says "love the Lord your God". God is Triune: Father, Son, and Spirit (not just Father)

 

[gadar perets]

I can list off 200 verses or more and I am not exaggerating that show Yeshua to be God as well as the Son.
...
If you are willing, I can supply you with verses that need to be reconciled by you and even a reasonable view using science to show the need for the son to be God.

I would like to receive that list, Ken. Feel free to PM them to me or just list them here. Thanks.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

Jesus was in fact many things which are not exclusive of each other. He was all of the things. He was a prophet, he was a man, the messiah, he is God, and also the son of God. As he is the Word made flesh and dwelt among us. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, As so eloquently stated in the book of John. There is no atonement that we as humans could possibly have that would be worthy of God's glory and presence. He is too holy for a simple animal sacrifice to suffice, or incense. To think that one's works or earthly things would do the job, somehow knocks God down a few pegs on the holiness scale. As a people, we hoped for a savior in the Lord. We trust in him completely. God himself, as we knew that only he is worthy of providing that atonement. Only he could fit the bill as a worthy sacrifice. You have to sacrifice something holy. So he provided himself. Jesus referred to his Father, because God is his Father. Obviously. Son of God. But they are also one. Aren't your words also you? Word was God. We were made in his image. heart, soul, mind-trinity. Matthew 22:37

 

[gadar perets]

Jesus was in fact many things which are not exclusive of each other. He was all of the things. He was a prophet, he was a man, the messiah, he is God, and also the son of God. As he is the Word made flesh and dwelt among us. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, As so eloquently stated in the book of John. There is no atonement that we as humans could possibly have that would be worthy of God's glory and presence. He is too holy for a simple animal sacrifice to suffice, or incense. To think that one's works or earthly things would do the job, somehow knocks God down a few pegs on the holiness scale. As a people, we hoped for a savior in the Lord. We trust in him completely. God himself, as we knew that only he is worthy of providing that atonement. Only he could fit the bill as a worthy sacrifice. You have to sacrifice something holy. So he provided himself. Jesus referred to his Father, because God is his Father. Obviously. Son of God. But they are also one. Aren't your words also you? Word was God. We were made in his image. heart, soul, mind-trinity. Matthew 22:37

God cannot make an atonement for two reasons; 1) God cannot die 2) God does not have blood. All that was needed was an unblemished blood sacrifice. Yeshua's sinless (unblemished) life and mortality (ability to die) was all that was needed. Also, you are reading the Son into John 1:1.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

God cannot make an atonement for two reasons; 1) God cannot die 2) God does not have blood. All that was needed was an unblemished blood sacrifice. Yeshua's sinless (unblemished) life and mortality (ability to die) was all that was needed. Also, you are reading the Son into John 1:1.

Why do you think he sent his Son, the mortal image of himself, to die and shed his blood for us? Because God cannot die correct? If you wanted an unblemished blood sacrifice only for sake of propriety, you could grab the ram from the bushes as Abraham did. As Jesus was of the Father, and the Father was in him, there is a entirely larger, more profound sacrifice here. He was fathered by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God himself. He was not just some random religious Jewish guy that laid down his life as many, many soldiers in the past have done. The triune aspect of our creator has been taught to us through our whole existence. We are made in his image in a triune nature. Our heart, mind, and spirit are one, are they not? The same with our Lord. God gave his heart to us, so that we could be with him, because we failed miserably at doing the right things. And yes, I am reading Son into John 1:1. As he was the Word. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:14. That is what John explains in John 1:1-14

In other words, we worship the Father because we can by means of Jesus Christ, the only mediator between the Father and us. We do worship the Father and come to him freely. There no other way to come to the Father except through Jesus Christ.

 

[gadar perets]

Why do you think he sent his Son, the mortal image of himself, to die and shed his blood for us? Because God cannot die correct? If you wanted an unblemished blood sacrifice only for sake of propriety, you could grab the ram from the bushes as Abraham did.

The blood of bulls, goats and lambs could not take away sin. A better, more perfect sacrifice was needed. Not the sacrifice of a God who cannot die, but of a sinless man. Yet, not just any sinless man, but a man created without the stain of Adam upon him.

As Jesus was of the Father, and the Father was in him, there is a entirely larger, more profound sacrifice here. He was fathered by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God himself. He was not just some random religious Jewish guy that laid down his life as many, many soldiers in the past have done.

I totally agree.

The triune aspect of our creator has been taught to us through our whole existence. We are made in his image in a triune nature. Our heart, mind, and spirit are one, are they not? The same with our Lord. God gave his heart to us, so that we could be with him, because we failed miserably at doing the right things.

A triune creator was taught to you by the creeds of men, not by Scripture. Don't Christians believe people have souls? How come you didn't include that along with the heart, mind and spirit? Because it messes up your triune nature analogy and gives you a "quad-une" nature?

And yes, I am reading Son into John 1:1. As he was the Word. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:14. That is what John explains in John 1:1-14

John 1:1 speaks of the "logos", not the Son. Yes, the logos became the Son, but not until the Son was conceived and became flesh. Prior to that the logos was the Father's spoken words and thoughts. It wasn't until hundreds of years after Yeshua ascended that the word "logos" was given a new definition, "Jesus Christ". Several important Bible translations prior to the KJV (Tyndale, Thomas Matthew, Geneva, the Great Bible ...) did not render the pronouns of John 1:3-4 as "him" and "he", but as "it". The logos was a thing that became a living person when the Father spoke the Son into existence in Miriam's womb.

In other words, we worship the Father because we can by means of Jesus Christ, the only mediator between the Father and us. We do worship the Father and come to him freely. There no other way to come to the Father except through Jesus Christ.

I agree. Amein.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Clarifying here: when a Christian says "Jesus is the Son of God" and acknowledge His divinity, that's different than saying "Jesus is the Father"-- He's not the Father. He's the Son. They are two different divine persons in one God.

That never made any sense to me, in context of monotheism.

 

[Jane_Doe]

That never made any sense to me, in context of monotheism.

The rules of this forum says people only allowed to advocate for Trinitarian perspective here. I don't believe the Trinitarian perspective at all, so I'll keep my mouth shut on this thread. If you want to hear the LDS perspective (which is not Trinitarian), feel free to PM me.

 

[RDKirk]

The Messiah Yehowshuwa (True Hebrew name) said the greatest commandment is to Love Yehowah his Father with all our hearts mind and soul. Many people now say that Jesus is God.

Christians do not worship the Son instead of the Father.

You made a false statement.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The rules of this forum says people only allowed to advocate for Trinitarian perspective here. I don't believe the Trinitarian perspective at all, so I'll keep my mouth shut on this thread. If you want to hear the LDS perspective (which is not Trinitarian), feel free to PM me.

Not really.

I was just expressing the fact that the whole trinity thingy never made any sense to me in context of a monotheistic religion.

To me, that kind of sounds like it really being a polytheistic religion that for some reason had to be force-fitted into a monotheistic one.

 

[Radagast]

I was just expressing the fact that the whole trinity thingy never made any sense to me in context of a monotheistic religion.

To me, that kind of sounds like it really being a polytheistic religion that for some reason had to be force-fitted into a monotheistic one.

Christianity arose from within monotheistic Judaism. It remains monotheistic.

The doctrine of the Trinity is a way of reconciling that monotheism (which is in the New Testament) with the deity of Christ and of the Holy Spirit (which is also in the New Testament).

 

[Petros2015]

I was just expressing the fact that the whole trinity thingy never made any sense to me in context of a monotheistic religion.

I think it has something to do with dimensions. If, instead of the word 'Trinity' I used the word 'hyper-God' would that make more sense?

Think of a cube. The cube has width, length and depth. Now think of a God - the God has Father, Son and Holy Spirit.