Why do catholics pray to Mary

[Major1]

I've met some Jehovahs Witnesses like that. The basis of their entire faith seems to be based on battling Catholicism. It's sad.

They could be spending all that time doing something good instead.

You know what is really interesting Landon....every Catholic I have ever known, places the Church and Tradition OVER and above the Word of God.

Why is that you think?

Example:
You believe that Mary was of an IMMACLATE CONCEPTION = born with no sin and then assummed to heaven.

However, and pay attention now....there is not one single Scripture that even suggests such a thing. That idea is purely a concept of MAN.

It came from.......Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, December 1854 =
" “The blessed Virgin Mary to have been, from the first instant of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of Almighty God, in view of the merits of Christ Jesus the Savior of Mankind, preserved free from all stain of original sin”.

This opinion from a MAN allowed her to be the “second Eve” to give birth to the “second Adam”.

The problem with the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is that it is not taught in the Bible. Even Catholics admit that Scripture does not directly teach the Immaculate Conception. The Bible nowhere describes Mary as anything but an ordinary human female whom God chose to be the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Major1]

"if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector." ~ Jesus Christ.

IT seems to me that you changed what Jesus said to make it say what YOU wanted Him to say.

Matthew 18:17.......Jesus tells how to solve conflicts and said..
"And if he shall neglect to hear THEM, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."

 

[Landon Caeli]

IT seems to me that you changed what Jesus said to make it say what YOU wanted Him to say.

Matthew 18:17.......Jesus tells how to solve conflicts and said..
"And if he shall neglect to hear THEM, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."

...It means the same thing. Do you see a difference?

 

[Major1]

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."

Jesus Christ is Head of the Church. It's biblical. And infallible in doctrine, through Jesus Christ Himself!

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

NOW you got one right!

Peter said............"Thou are the Christ the Son of the living God" and Jesus said that, ON THAT STATEMENT I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH!

NOT Peter, but what Peter said.

Isnt it interesting that the RCC does not allow Bishops and Popes to marry but Peter was in fact married!!!!

 

[Major1]

...It means the same thing. Do you see a difference?

No sir.

THEM = A person accused of sin or a wrong.

Jesus prescribes what must happen if the sinful person continues to refuse repentance and restoration. The accuser and the witnesses must accept the unpleasant task of presenting the situation to the church or the assembly = repentance and restoration.

Again, ideally, those assembled as believers in Jesus will hear the issue and agree with the accused and the witnesses that sin has taken place. If the larger body does not agree wrong has been done, the process would stop here. If they do agree the accused is wrong, he or she is given one last chance to repent and make things right, now in a public setting.

 

[prodromos]

I disagree!

I will stand by Webster's definition instead of yours as yours is biased to what YOU want to believe.

nec·ro·man·cy
[ˈnekrəˌmansē]
NOUN

1. the supposed practice of communicating with the dead,
   "alchemy, necromancy, and other magic practices"
   • sorcery or black magic in general.
     synonyms:
     (black) magic · the black arts · witchcraft · wizardry · the occult · occultism · enchantment · spell · incantation · divination · voodooism · voodoo ·
     [more]

Nothing wrong with Webster's definition. So where are the spells and incantations we supposedly engage in to summon up the Saints?

Call Websters and tell them they are false witnesses because in reality my friend, I do not care one little bit about your opinions.

I could care less about your opinions except that you bear false witness on a christian forum.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Please READ the Scripture............
"one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does"

It really is not that difficult to understand!

Oh I have read them several times, please don’t ignore the context of the scriptures. You know full well what those verses are referring to which is exactly why you omitted it from your quote. Don’t intentionally misrepresent the word of God in your campaign against Roman Catholicism brother.

 

[prodromos]

Major did not start this thread!!!!!!!!

Nor did I say you did.

 

[Valletta]

You know what is really interesting Landon....every Catholic I have ever known, places the Church and Tradition OVER and above the Word of God.

Absolutely false.

Catholic Catechism, my highlighting in 82:
I. The Relationship Between Tradition and Sacred Scripture

One common source. . .

80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."40 Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own "always, to the close of the age".41

. . . two distinct modes of transmission

81 "Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."42

"and [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."43

82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honoured with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."44
Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

 

[atpollard]

Because Saints (including Mary) are not actually dead, according to the faith. They're alive in Heaven, just like Elijah is, and the Angels.

... and you avoid the question by immediately splitting semantic hairs.

Why do you feel more comfortable praying to the Saints that live in Heaven than the God that (allegedly) lives inside of you?

 

[Landon Caeli]

... and you avoid the question by immediately splitting semantic hairs.

Why do you feel more comfortable praying to the Saints that live in Heaven than the God that (allegedly) lives inside of you?

Because the question is invalid. I don't feel more comfortable praying to saints.

 

[Major1]

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Protestants claim the Bible is the only rule of faith, meaning that it contains all of the material one needs for theology and that this material is sufficiently clear that one does not need apostolic tradition or the Church’s magisterium (teaching authority) to help one understand it. In the Protestant view, the whole of Christian truth is found within the Bible’s pages. Anything extraneous to the Bible is simply non-authoritative, unnecessary, or wrong.

Catholics, on the other hand, recognize that the true “rule of faith”—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.

The problem for YOU is that there are NO BIBLE Scriptures that validate any Apostle succession! NONE!

 

[Major1]

Because the question is invalid. I don't feel more comfortable praying to saints.

YOU said you did so how is the question invalid?

 

[Major1]

Nor did I say you did.

Post #313.........YOU said =
"Major1 defines his faith in opposition to Catholicism. It is the subject of almost every thread he starts."

If you did not bear false witness of me.......what do you then call what you did????

 

[Major1]

Oh I have read them several times, please don’t ignore the context of the scriptures. You know full well what those verses are referring to which is exactly why you omitted it from your quote. Don’t intentionally misrepresent the word of God in your campaign against Roman Catholicism brother.

You are very incorrect my friend. NOTHINH was ommitted!

Those Scriptures are focused on the Children of Israel as they were entering the Promised Land. God told them to NOT DO what the people there were doing which was witchcraft, talking to the dead and necromancy.

Please do not disrespect yourself in an attempt to make others look like they do not know what they are saying.

I posted what was realavenat to the contesct.

 

[Landon Caeli]

YOU said you did so how is the question invalid?

You're mistaken.

 

[prodromos]

Because the question is invalid. I don't feel more comfortable praying to saints.

I feel much more comfortable praying to God, but I also recognise that due to my constant failing to uphold God's calling for me, my own prayers are worthless, sinful man that I am. More often than not, when those who have completed the race and have received their crowns, pray to God on my behalf, that is when God answers. I have personally witnessed many miracles happen through the intercession of the Saints and have read innumerable accounts from others. One in particular I recall was a young boy in Greece who was born with his legs fused together and folded back against his back. Doctors were able to seperate his legs and correct their position, but they informed his parents that he would never be able to walk as his spine had not fully developed and he had no nerves from the waist down. The boy's father knew of St John the Russian, whose incorrupt relics rest in a Church in the village of Prokopi, North of Halkida and begged him to take away the burden of seeing his son being bedridden for life. They then made the journey to the Church on foot, he and his wife taking turns carrying their son and a lamb they brought as an offering, all the way from their village of Istiaia. When they arrived a service was held to honor St John and ask for his prayers after which the family slept outside the Church. At midnight the father woke and called his son to fetch him some water, upon which their son stood up and walked, completely healed and whole.
This was published in a book with accounts of many miracles from this one particular Saint, and had photos of the boy before and after his surgery.

 

[Valletta]

Fact check!!!!!! Wonderful - lets do that so we can all learn about what you are saying.

You say you VENERATE but do not worship Mary! FACT!!!
Every dictionary says that To venerate is to regard with great respect or to revere. Veneration can be defined as “respect or awe directed toward someone due to his/her value or greatness.”

The simplest definition of worship is to “ascribe worth.”
Worship can be more completely defined as “showing respect, love, reverence, or adoration.”
FACT:----Based on the dictionary, no clear difference between veneration and worship exists. In

FACT;------veneration and worship are used as synonyms for each other.

FACT:--------By YOUR own words you said.........
"I do however venerate her, indeed moreso than anyone else".

But dictionary definitions are not the point. It does not matter what it is called.

FACT:---------
The Bible nowhere instructs followers of Jesus Christ to offer worship, veneration, adoration, or anything similar to anyone but God.

Nowhere does the New Testament describe any followers of Jesus Christ worshiping, venerating, or adoring anyone other than God.

They did not receive worship, either. Peter refused to receive adoration from Cornelius in Acts 10:25-26.

Paul and Barnabas were equally adamant that the people of Lystra not venerate them in Acts 14:15.

Twice in the Book of Revelation (Rev. 19:10 & 22:8), the apostle John begins to worship an angel, and the angel instructs him, “Worship God!” Mary and the saints who have gone to heaven before us would say the same thing: “Worship God!”

FACT:-------
The Catholic Church has different degrees of worship:
1. dulia,
2. hyper dulia, and
3. latria.

Dulia is the honor given to the saints.
Hyper dulia is the honor given to Mary alone, as the greatest of the saints.
Latria is the honor given to God alone.

In contrast, the Bible always ascribes honor, in the context of worship, to God alone (1 Chronicles 29:11; 1 Timothy 1:17; 6:16; Revelation 4:11 ; 5:13).

FACT:---------There is no biblical support for offering lower/lesser levels of worship or "Veneration" to anyone other than God!!!!!!!!

Now you completely got the part wrong about Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, that was a misrepresentation of Catholicism. So I hope this time you will pay heed to what Catholic teaching is rather than what you have been taught it is. The word "worship" has multiple meanings, has changed, and will continue to change. That a little boy worships a baseball player or a girl worships a boy from afar does not mean they are putting them above God. Veneration or honor also does not mean so, perhaps you honor your parents, in fact, God tells us to do so. It is Catholic teaching the the worship given to God is for God alone. You are letting your anti-Catholicism get in the way if you think or claim otherwise, just like your error with Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture.

 

[The Liturgist]

Does anyone find it amusing that we have someone arguing against the Catholic Church and the opponents aren't Catholic. Too funny. You can't make this nonsense up.

Seems like more than Catholics who pray to the Saints. In fact, I would say the vast majority of Christianity prays to the Saints. Yet our poster ALWAYS mentions the Catholic Church. I wonder why?

Indeed. Here I am, one of approximately* 330 million non-Catholics who prays to the saints, and I’m being lectured about how wrong the Pope is, et cetera. It’s ridiculous. By the way, I believe I’ve mentioned this to you before, but if Pope Benedict XVI hadn’t resigned there is a good chance I might be Roman Catholic, but I disagree with most of the policies of Pope Francis. I strongly support the Traditional Latin Mass communities.

*An approximation based on the combined size of the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglican and Lutheran denominations, and factoring in that about a third of Anglicans and 2/3 of Lutherans are low church and likely do not pray to the saints.

 

[prodromos]

Post #313.........YOU said =
"Major1 defines his faith in opposition to Catholicism. It is the subject of almost every thread he starts."

If you did not bear false witness of me.......what do you then call what you did????

As I now find I cannot search the forums for threads you have started, I am unable to confirm what I said is true or not so I will retract my statement that Catholicism is the subject of almost every thread you have started.