Why did the Lord come to the earth?
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Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death.
But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
(Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. You had better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation.
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The only begotten Son and Word of God became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary to save us from the self-inflicted wounds of sin, remaking us in His image through his life, death and resurrection. In essence, God allowed Himself to be crucified and died on the cross in order to show us what it means to be human, as Fr. John Behr, the noted Eastern Orthodox theologian, said. St. Athanasius, the fourth century theologian, the defender of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity against the Arians, who also developed our 27-book New Testament canon, wrote an entire book explaning the Incarnation which I strongly recommend, which you can read for free online on many websites, entitled On The Incarnation. This book I would argue remains the definitive answer to your question in terms of providing a coherent Biblical exegesis that explains why God the Son had to condescend to put on our humanity.
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michael21
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Not just to him, but you know he is talking of his life as a Pharisee there-right in romans 7:7-11?
When I was ten, we moved to a different church. As soon as I got there I was convinced I must take God very seriously. A few weeks later I responded to an altar call. The first thing I noticed that was different about me was, I became aware/conscious of my sin before God in a way I never had previously. I would say it was quite profound. And even at that age, I believed things must change, because Christians have to life of obedience, right? I didn’t love many others as I should, I got angry at times (as kids to) and I told some fibs. And this was all wrong, we could say I was not living out works as a believer if I continued like that. And so I wanted to live a pure and holy life for God in accordance with His righteous laws. The problem was, I could not get rid of the sin. It always kept coming back, like the tide coming in at the seashore. I started to become disheartened. You see, at church each week it was relentlessly preached how Christians must live their lives/works if you like, but I kept failing miserably.
When I reached puberty my problems increased ten fold, for along came impure thoughts. I honestly did not want them, I wanted to live a pure and holy life for God. And, I may have been saved by grace through faith, but that didn’t mean I could live a life of sin did it? I wasn’t stupid, if you want to obey God’s laws you have to obey on the inside as well as the outside, you cannot excuse any sin can you? I became greatly concerned, I feared those impure thoughts when they came, I was not living a holy and righteous life for God. And Christians must obey God’s good and holy laws musn’t they. The impure thoughts grew, the more I feared my unrighteous living could send me to hell. At church each week people would give me a godly smile, a handshake and a relevant bible verse if necessary. They kept insisting we must live a righteous life for God and obey his laws. I imagined they must have already attained on the inside to what they portrayed on the outside. I never dreamed any of it could be an act for Sundays. I used to wonder what was wrong with me, why could I not live a pure and holy life for God in keeping with obeying his laws. I became extremely unhappy, and started to feel condemned, lust became rampant, it dominated my life and I felt dirty and ashamed. At 15 I walked away from the church, what else could I do? I certainly was not living a life in keeping with the good and holy law of God.
How could I describe that time of my life now looking back?
Was the law sin, for through the knowledge of God’s laws and my intent to obey them sin became rampant in me as it never had before. Of course not, I would never have known the rottenness of sin, my eyes would never have been opened to it if it was not for God’s perfect, holy and righteous laws. But through my knowledge of the commandment, thou shalt not covet, and my believe righteousness hinged on obeying the law, all manner of concupiscence(to use a greek term) was aroused in me. I had felt alive once before the law came to me for their was no condemnation then, but when it did come sin revived(or sin consciousness sprang to life) and I died/felt condemned, the commandment that I believed would enable me to enter heaven if I obeyed it, instead brought death/condemnation for I could not keep it. Sin through what was holy just and good deceived me, and by it slew me. And through that law I became exceeding sinful.
Paul speaking of his life after he made a personal commitment to God at the age of 13 I believe for a young Jewish lad:
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
I had gone to church and tried to attain heaven as saul the Pharisee tried to attain it and got the same result he got. When I followed Paul the Christians advice, the sin quickly lessened. Within a few days, a sin I had been a slave to for six years stopped, once I clung to a righteousness of faith in Christ:
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Romans6:14
I do wonder if others who insist God’s laws must be obeyed if you want to enter heaven understand the depth of what that means. Do they include in that law that no one but they and God need know they break, or do they excuse it as minor infringements? There is no excuse for sin is there, any of it
When I was ten, we moved to a different church. As soon as I got there I was convinced I must take God very seriously. A few weeks later I responded to an altar call. The first thing I noticed that was different about me was, I became aware/conscious of my sin before God in a way I never had previously. I would say it was quite profound. And even at that age, I believed things must change, because Christians have to life of obedience, right? I didn’t love many others as I should, I got angry at times (as kids to) and I told some fibs. And this was all wrong, we could say I was not living out works as a believer if I continued like that. And so I wanted to live a pure and holy life for God in accordance with His righteous laws. The problem was, I could not get rid of the sin. It always kept coming back, like the tide coming in at the seashore. I started to become disheartened. You see, at church each week it was relentlessly preached how Christians must live their lives/works if you like, but I kept failing miserably.
When I reached puberty my problems increased ten fold, for along came impure thoughts. I honestly did not want them, I wanted to live a pure and holy life for God. And, I may have been saved by grace through faith, but that didn’t mean I could live a life of sin did it? I wasn’t stupid, if you want to obey God’s laws you have to obey on the inside as well as the outside, you cannot excuse any sin can you? I became greatly concerned, I feared those impure thoughts when they came, I was not living a holy and righteous life for God. And Christians must obey God’s good and holy laws musn’t they. The impure thoughts grew, the more I feared my unrighteous living could send me to hell. At church each week people would give me a godly smile, a handshake and a relevant bible verse if necessary. They kept insisting we must live a righteous life for God and obey his laws. I imagined they must have already attained on the inside to what they portrayed on the outside. I never dreamed any of it could be an act for Sundays. I used to wonder what was wrong with me, why could I not live a pure and holy life for God in keeping with obeying his laws. I became extremely unhappy, and started to feel condemned, lust became rampant, it dominated my life and I felt dirty and ashamed. At 15 I walked away from the church, what else could I do? I certainly was not living a life in keeping with the good and holy law of God.
How could I describe that time of my life now looking back?
Was the law sin, for through the knowledge of God’s laws and my intent to obey them sin became rampant in me as it never had before. Of course not, I would never have known the rottenness of sin, my eyes would never have been opened to it if it was not for God’s perfect, holy and righteous laws. But through my knowledge of the commandment, thou shalt not covet, and my believe righteousness hinged on obeying the law, all manner of concupiscence(to use a greek term) was aroused in me. I had felt alive once before the law came to me for their was no condemnation then, but when it did come sin revived(or sin consciousness sprang to life) and I died/felt condemned, the commandment that I believed would enable me to enter heaven if I obeyed it, instead brought death/condemnation for I could not keep it. Sin through what was holy just and good deceived me, and by it slew me. And through that law I became exceeding sinful.
Paul speaking of his life after he made a personal commitment to God at the age of 13 I believe for a young Jewish lad:
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
I had gone to church and tried to attain heaven as saul the Pharisee tried to attain it and got the same result he got. When I followed Paul the Christians advice, the sin quickly lessened. Within a few days, a sin I had been a slave to for six years stopped, once I clung to a righteousness of faith in Christ:
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Romans6:14
I do wonder if others who insist God’s laws must be obeyed if you want to enter heaven understand the depth of what that means. Do they include in that law that no one but they and God need know they break, or do they excuse it as minor infringements? There is no excuse for sin is there, any of it
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You do realize both answers are correct? When our incarnate Lord, God and Savior died on the Cross, it freed us from sin and was also the extreme example of God loving us and showing us how to be human, by loving each other; but death could not contain God, and so Jesus Christ was resurrected in the flesh, and this enables our own resurrection, because our human nature is in a hypostatic union with the divine nature through the person of Jesus Christ, in whom the two natures are united in one hypostasis without change, confusion, division or separation.
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Ligurian
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Ligurian said: ↑
(to Sidon)
"Matthew 7:24-27 shows the two characteristics, which are symbolic of the two gospels of Galatians 2:7-9, which are for the two different peoples. Naturally, Paul is like you and thinks all people of Jacob are Jews... maybe he didn't remember the divided kingdom, either.
You follow Paul's gospel which never metions "born again." The process is entirely different because "Paul's gospel" is completely different from "Peter's gospel" to the circumcision. Even Paul knows the reason why:
Galatians 2:14-16
Anyway, Paul seems to have forgotten that Peter was never under the gospel of the gentiles. And Jesus never even implies that works aren't necesssary in the Kingdom... in fact, He states the opposite in no uncertain terms. Neither does James say the works are futile, since he calls the law a liberty... meaning freedom from sin is achieved by training. Anyone under the law in the Old Testament was able to be justified, or God wasted His time at Sinai, and a whole lot of people were promised something that could never happen. And that's not even the problem, according to the prophets. Because David sinned big-time, and repented, on his face, in tears. God wants to be merciful. But Judah/Benjamin built a temple.
Did every child but me hear, "Don't eat cookies before dinner"... and run for the cookie jar when mommie left the room? Isn't that what Paul says happened to him? Paul struggled with his nature. Did John? No. Did Nathanael? No. Did even Peter after he got over being afraid of dying? No. People want to say that genetics don't matter. I know for a fact that it does, or the stories in the Old Testament and that of my own life are huge coincidences. Even in the same family, one child will aways rebel. And one child was always the one that Jesus loved.
So Paul was sent to the gentiles, which he calls sinners... his story about the wretched man would actually make him the perfect steward to the gentiles who'd never been trained in self-control. And Peter went to that Israel part of the circumcision... which wasn't Judah's two tribes, leaving them for Paul to convert, if possible. Because genetics fit Peter for that Israel circumcision role, and it fit John and Nathanael et al, too.
So Paul says stay what you were when you were called. 1 Corinthians 7:18
Which is what I'm doing... being true to my nature. And this is why there are two different Gospels. Galatians 2:7-9"
Seems like you've missed a few verses that might have made a difference.
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Matthew 6:14-15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 18:21-35 Then came Peter to Him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. ... 35 So likewise shall My heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (confess/repent to the one we've injured)
There's nothing Jesus didn't cover in the Father's Gospel of the Kingdom.
Frankly, I'd like to know why Saul of Tarsus called the Gentiles sinners in one verse, and himself someone who chased after sin (and caught it) in another.
(to Sidon)
"Matthew 7:24-27 shows the two characteristics, which are symbolic of the two gospels of Galatians 2:7-9, which are for the two different peoples. Naturally, Paul is like you and thinks all people of Jacob are Jews... maybe he didn't remember the divided kingdom, either.
You follow Paul's gospel which never metions "born again." The process is entirely different because "Paul's gospel" is completely different from "Peter's gospel" to the circumcision. Even Paul knows the reason why:
Galatians 2:14-16
Anyway, Paul seems to have forgotten that Peter was never under the gospel of the gentiles. And Jesus never even implies that works aren't necesssary in the Kingdom... in fact, He states the opposite in no uncertain terms. Neither does James say the works are futile, since he calls the law a liberty... meaning freedom from sin is achieved by training. Anyone under the law in the Old Testament was able to be justified, or God wasted His time at Sinai, and a whole lot of people were promised something that could never happen. And that's not even the problem, according to the prophets. Because David sinned big-time, and repented, on his face, in tears. God wants to be merciful. But Judah/Benjamin built a temple.
Did every child but me hear, "Don't eat cookies before dinner"... and run for the cookie jar when mommie left the room? Isn't that what Paul says happened to him? Paul struggled with his nature. Did John? No. Did Nathanael? No. Did even Peter after he got over being afraid of dying? No. People want to say that genetics don't matter. I know for a fact that it does, or the stories in the Old Testament and that of my own life are huge coincidences. Even in the same family, one child will aways rebel. And one child was always the one that Jesus loved.
So Paul was sent to the gentiles, which he calls sinners... his story about the wretched man would actually make him the perfect steward to the gentiles who'd never been trained in self-control. And Peter went to that Israel part of the circumcision... which wasn't Judah's two tribes, leaving them for Paul to convert, if possible. Because genetics fit Peter for that Israel circumcision role, and it fit John and Nathanael et al, too.
So Paul says stay what you were when you were called. 1 Corinthians 7:18
Which is what I'm doing... being true to my nature. And this is why there are two different Gospels. Galatians 2:7-9"
Seems like you've missed a few verses that might have made a difference.
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Matthew 6:14-15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 18:21-35 Then came Peter to Him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. ... 35 So likewise shall My heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (confess/repent to the one we've injured)
There's nothing Jesus didn't cover in the Father's Gospel of the Kingdom.
Frankly, I'd like to know why Saul of Tarsus called the Gentiles sinners in one verse, and himself someone who chased after sin (and caught it) in another.
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michael21
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Paul doesnt state works aren't neccessary either, he only states they are not neccessary for justification/righteousness.
You seem to have missed the whole point of my post
Do we then nullify the law by this faith/righteousness of faith in Christ not obeying the law, not at all! Rather we uphold the law Rom3:31
For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ Romans6:14
Which do you think God would prefer, works done in order to be sure of attaining to Heaven, or works done out of love and gratitude tov God for a free salvation
As you seem more comfortable with the Gospels, that can be understood without the indwelling Holy Spirit:
Jesus looking forward to the new covenant:
When he comes(the Holy Spirit), he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. John 16:8-11
Note that under the new covenant regarding sin because people do not believe in Jesus. Not transgression of the law. Confirmed by Paul on multiple occasions when he stated the believers righteousness was faith in Christ, not obeying the law
So faith/belief in Christ is a persons righteousness under the new covenant, And Jesus confirms righteousness comes through his ascension from the grave and returning to his father after he died for believers sins at Calvary.
You need to be mindful of the fact Jesus lived under the old covenant and was faithful to it, but in the verses I have quoted he was looking to the new covenant that was to come
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I must assume this conversation is over.
You refuse to answer my questions.
I suppose that means you ignore all that I offer.
So, therefore, you win.
God bless.
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michael21
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A huge difference between the two covenants. Under the old covenant it was an external law, engraved in stone and written on parchments. An external law does not mean you in your heart want to obey it. Whichever country you live in, you also have a list of external laws, but that does not mean you in your heart agree with them all does it? On religious grounds you might disagree with some of them
However, under the new covenant it is no longer an external law, but an internal law written in the mind and placed on the heart of believers(Jeremiah31:31-34)
What is in your mind, you must instinctively know, and as the law is in your heart, you in your heart want to follow it. Because that is what you want your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more. That's the covenant. However, as Jesus said:
Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say. 'The old is better' Luke5:39
Beware of those who keep repeating ''you must obey the law'' I wonder how many who do that obey each and every command of Christ in the Gospels. Over decades I have never met anyone who has even tried to. Its easy to say you must obey the law as an entitlement to enter heaven/righteousness of obeying the law, but if you want to get there, you must practice what you preach, for as Jesus also said:
The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you Matthew7:2
And yet, many will quote John 14:15 for example to others, whilst they themselves do not even try and obey all of Christ's literal commands in the Gospels. Strikes of a Phariseeical attitude to me. Jesus reserved his harshest words for the religious who did not practice what they demanded of others
However, under the new covenant it is no longer an external law, but an internal law written in the mind and placed on the heart of believers(Jeremiah31:31-34)
What is in your mind, you must instinctively know, and as the law is in your heart, you in your heart want to follow it. Because that is what you want your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more. That's the covenant. However, as Jesus said:
Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say. 'The old is better' Luke5:39
Beware of those who keep repeating ''you must obey the law'' I wonder how many who do that obey each and every command of Christ in the Gospels. Over decades I have never met anyone who has even tried to. Its easy to say you must obey the law as an entitlement to enter heaven/righteousness of obeying the law, but if you want to get there, you must practice what you preach, for as Jesus also said:
The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you Matthew7:2
And yet, many will quote John 14:15 for example to others, whilst they themselves do not even try and obey all of Christ's literal commands in the Gospels. Strikes of a Phariseeical attitude to me. Jesus reserved his harshest words for the religious who did not practice what they demanded of others
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I think these 3 verses capture the essence of faith:
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast.
James 2:24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
Do you think perhaps it may be that people get hung up on the 2nd one, and ignore the 3rd?
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Ligurian
Cro-Magnon
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith He that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
This is the Gospel of the Kingdom, so, how they received and heard are, too.
To be a Disciple of Jesus, you'd have to keep Jesus' Commandments, and then you'd be given the Holy Spirit, John 14:15-17. These Disciples fit that description, according to Jesus:
Matthew 13:10 And the Disciples came, and said unto Him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Nonsense. In fact, I'm doubting that Jesus ever had to be "mindful" of any of them... Him being God and all, He just followed His nature.
Jesus didn't look forward to the New Covenant... He brought it to Earth and lived it here. (Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven = big clue) At the Last Passover, Jesus had completed the New Covenant doctrines, and so He ratified the New Covenant with the Galilean Apostles.
John 14:24 He that loveth Me not keepeth not My words: and the word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me.
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Yes, I think people get hung up on faith and not work. Let's take a look at and example of faith and works together. "And it came to pass, that, while Apollo was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.” And he said unto them, "unto what then were ye baptized?" And they said unto John's baptism.
Then Paul said, “John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, Jesus Christ.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve." (Acts 19:1-7).
So these people already had faith (believe) and when Paul brought to there attention to be baptize in the name of Jesus, they had no problem. But if they didn't get baptize again under the name of Jesus, they would have not receive the Holy Ghost.
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michael21
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So before you can receive the Holy Spirit you must learn not to invite friends, family or neighbours home for a meal but rather the poor, lame, blind and beggars?
You must learn never so much as to hint to anyone if you fast?
If someone wanted to borrow from you, you must learn to give to them without expecting anything back?
You must really learn from your heart to love people who may be unkind to you and persecute you?
You must learn to give someone who stole from you more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?
You must learn to leap for joy if you are persecuted?
I could go on and on, but in your view all of the above must be learnt and done without the Holy Spirit's help for you cannot receive the Spirit until you have obeyed the above commands? And according to what you quoted, I am to take it you do not love Jesus if you do not obey his above commands alongside all the others mentioned in the Gospels?
The new covenant did not begin until Jesus had risen from the dead
Jesus did not come to destroy the law, he came to end righteousness of obeying the law, quite a difference.
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Ligurian
Cro-Magnon
Quite a stretch.
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets;
There's no law in that foundation... who are the "apostles" of Paul?
'Cuz they're definitely not the ones who taught all of this:
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. ...
Matthew 7:24-25 Therefore whosoever heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
John 14:21 He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.
John 12:50 And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.
Matthew 26:27 And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 28:18-20 16 Then the Eleven Disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All authority is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name. (name = character, authority)
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God, and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.
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michael21
Active Member
You didnt confirm if you yourself obey the commandments I quoted to you, possibly it slipped your memory. Only according to your previous post, if you do not you do not have the Holy Spirit, neither can you love Jesus according to your quote I imagine. I will put them up again for you:
So before you can receive the Holy Spirit you must learn not to invite friends, family or neighbours home for a meal but rather the poor, lame, blind and beggars?
You must learn never so much as to hint to anyone if you fast?
If someone wanted to borrow from you, you must learn to give to them without expecting anything back?
You must really learn from your heart to love people who may be unkind to you and persecute you?
You must learn to give someone who stole from you more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?
You must learn to leap for joy if you are persecuted?
I could go on and on, but in your view all of the above must be learnt and done without the Holy Spirit's help for you cannot receive the Spirit until you have obeyed the above commands? And according to what you quoted, I am to take it you do not love Jesus if you do not obey his above commands alongside all the others mentioned in the Gospels?
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