Why did the Lord come to the earth?

[Ligurian]

Thanks for asking and responding


It began when I was reading something else which led me to Zechariah 14.

So I started reading Zechariah 14

The parts that were sticking out for me were verse 1

Verse 7 “at evening time it shall be light”

Then verse 9 is what prompted me to go deeper and eventually lead to what I wrote here.

Last part of verse 11 also.

I will need a LOT more examining into that chapter.

Pretty incredible stuff, I’m sure I can study it forever and continue to gain more insight little by little.

Zacharias 13:6 And I will say to Him, What are these wounds between Thine hands? and He shall say, Those with which I was wounded in My beloved house. 7 Awake, O sword, against My shepherds, and against the man who is My citizen, saith the Lord Almighty: smite the shepherds, and draw out the sheep: and I will bring Mine hand upon the little ones. 8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts thereof shall be cut off and perish; but the third shall be left therein. 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and I will try them as silver is tried, and I will prove them as gold is proved: they shall call upon My name, and I will hear them, and say, This is My people: and they shall say, The Lord is My God.LXX

Matthew 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

John 15:2 Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

1 Peter 4:17-18 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the Gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Zacharias 14:1 Behold, the days of the Lord come, and thy spoils shall be divided in thee. 2 And I will gather all the Gentiles to Jerusalem to war, and the city shall be taken, and the houses plundered, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, but the rest of My people shall not be utterly cut off from the city.LXX

Endtimes, where else does God gather the nations against Jerusalem, but this:

Revelation 17:16-17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

We know the timing of this, because Daniel's little horn has just shown up. The beast does things in reverse order, apparently... because it came and so did the ruler of the beast before the false prophet. I still say the little horn is the dragon. They both are seen doing the same things, in this chapter and in Revelation 12:17. And by this we also know who the saints are.

For your second item, I as going to say around Galilee but didn’t think that was appropriate either, since the ending happened in Judah I just wrote that.

The third item. I did remember the passover story in Exodus and understand the link between the lamb and Jesus. To apply it to my concept of “fulfilling” the scriptures, as I have been using, it seems that John 19:29 does that as well, but because it wasn’t stated in the verse I didn’t include it.

I’m glad you mentioned John 14:15. It’s a wonderful verse.
Personally, John is probably my favorite book.

Since the Gospel of the Kingdom began in Galilee of the Nation, and was spoken to the house of Israel, because Peter quotes Hosea/Osee and applies it to the northern Diaspora... the house of Judah isn't seen giving glory to God until after the Resurrection of the two witnesses. This happens as the result of fear... an earthquake splits the city in half (the earth swallows the flood... probably men... to carry the woman away) It seems like this earthquake makes the even bigger one in Zacharias possible.

John's my favorite, too... but so are Matthew and the Revelation. These three are almost all I quote. The others provide affirmation... a second witness, as needed.

 

[Ligurian]

Thank you for that Ligurian.

Since my study has not been long, I have mainly done Genesis up to around Sodom. I’ve studied a lot of Isaiah and Jeremiah, Psalms are wonderful. I’ve actually read Revelation twice. First time got nothing from it. Second time a couple years later was great. Obviously really like the gospels, especially when Jesus is speaking.

As for Paul, I don’t go for that too much unless I’m lead there for some reason, but two of his verses really stick out:

Romans 7:15
probably because I can relate to that so well
And then 1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Psalms is what Jesus calls part of the law: John 10:34 matches Psalms 82:6. But I've read the law straight through several times, and don't use it much unless it matches what Jesus quotes.

You're right about Revelation following the pattern of the Gospels... specifically, the first-hand Gospels of Matthew and John. Revelation needs to be studied from the Letters to the Churches... which people seem to pass over, so most don't know who the two witnesses are. The rest of them, strangely, think that Revelation is written in order... the longer I look at it, the more scrambled it appears.

Without using Daniel as a code, no one can know enough about the beasts... that book was nit-picked to ribbons, with dates and times their usual starting and stopping point. But Daniel is even more scrambled than Revelation. And it seems like the scribes thought that scrambling was their job, and so they scrambled the chapters... never noticing that Daniel had done it beforehand. When Revelation was written, Daniel was opened. Joel provides light on the locusts of Revelation, and seems to bridge the gap of the Millenium, in the first chapters.

Paul says he went to the heathens, and Peter went to the circumcision, Galatians 2:7-9. And since we know from the Galilean Gospels (Matthew and John) what Peter was taught, we know what Peter taught others, Matthew 28:18-20. And we don't see him going to the gentiles in 1 Peter 1. But we do see Paul talking to Peter's circumcision, oddly enough... and then complaining that the Gospel where the Spirit is given by works of Law (Galatians 3:2, John 14:15-17) is somehow encroaching upon his gospel to the gentiles. I read Paul non-stop for a long time, since that's what the church I'd gone to taught non-stop. But I came up against a messianic gentile who said keeping the Mosaic Law under Jesus was the right thing to do... and we fought this difference tooth and nail... and I began to change my mind. Not to what he believed of the Law... but rather, I began to notice the Kingdom Law. It's like the sun came out. And I stopped hearing what didn't fit.

They say that neurons and synapses are lighting in the brain. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom for me. And the more I know, the more connections are made, the more fruit I have to share. I can see a whole brain lit up, in some distant future.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

All of scripture is given by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. There is no part of it that is more valid than another. It's all equally valid. None of it was written by Jesus, it was all written by men inspired by the same Holy Spirit, and their work was copied, shared, and cherished by men inspired by the same Holy Spirit.

hmmm, okay

i have heard that before, probably in a church building

thanks for sharing

 

[Ligurian]

Very well said.

There is no good reason to make it a binary decision.

Now that you got me thinking a little bit more, the dying on the cross is no doubt part of the plan. I think I was looking at the “job” Jesus came for was concluded on the cross, and then after that he gave up his life willingly. The saving humanity for their sins doesn’t make sense to me, because the Lord saves me from my sins every day.
If saving me from my sins was done on the cross, then what is going on now? I am a sinner now. I need the Lord to save me now, and every day I live.

Jesus doesn't say He saves humanity from their sins. John 3:16 has a different meaning. The world in that verse means the orderly cosmos which God created. The lack of law and order would end the world... because the 7-headed dragon of Babylon is Tiamat... Chaos. People who don't want laws are rebels... but they're also the first ones to complain about how others are treating them... which doesn't make sense if there is no law. In reality, Psalms 2, fits them.

1 John 1:8-9 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Which doesn't mean confess to some random person, it means this:

Matthew 5:22-24 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Matthew 18:21-35 So likewise shall My heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Repent and Forgive is the anchor of the Gospel of the Kingdom.
We have been forgiven, and forgive our brethren. John 1:16.
Matthew 9:13... sinners to repentance.KJV

You are wise, .Jeremiah., let no one take this from you, Revelation 3:11.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

Zacharias 13:6 And I will say to Him, What are these wounds between Thine hands? and He shall say, Those with which I was wounded in My beloved house. 7 Awake, O sword, against My shepherds, and against the man who is My citizen, saith the Lord Almighty: smite the shepherds, and draw out the sheep: and I will bring Mine hand upon the little ones. 8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts thereof shall be cut off and perish; but the third shall be left therein. 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and I will try them as silver is tried, and I will prove them as gold is proved: they shall call upon My name, and I will hear them, and say, This is My people: and they shall say, The Lord is My God.LXX

Matthew 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

John 15:2 Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

1 Peter 4:17-18 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the Gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Zacharias 14:1 Behold, the days of the Lord come, and thy spoils shall be divided in thee. 2 And I will gather all the Gentiles to Jerusalem to war, and the city shall be taken, and the houses plundered, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, but the rest of My people shall not be utterly cut off from the city.LXX

Endtimes, where else does God gather the nations against Jerusalem, but this:

Revelation 17:16-17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

We know the timing of this, because Daniel's little horn has just shown up. The beast does things in reverse order, apparently... because it came and so did the ruler of the beast before the false prophet. I still say the little horn is the dragon. They both are seen doing the same things, in this chapter and in Revelation 12:17. And by this we also know who the saints are.



Since the Gospel of the Kingdom began in Galilee of the Nation, and was spoken to the house of Israel, because Peter quotes Hosea/Osee and applies it to the northern Diaspora... the house of Judah isn't seen giving glory to God until after the Resurrection of the two witnesses. This happens as the result of fear... an earthquake splits the city in half (the earth swallows the flood... probably men... to carry the woman away) It seems like this earthquake makes the even bigger one in Zacharias possible.

John's my favorite, too... but so are Matthew and the Revelation. These three are almost all I quote. The others provide affirmation... a second witness, as needed.

As of a few days ago, I only was exposed to Zechariah
Now you’ve introduced me to Zacharias
Great verses, thank you for that.

It seems like I will have much to read.

I agree about Matthew. So many beautiful verses.

And Revelation. I mentioned that my wife and I have gone through it twice. We are hoping to have a third run later this year or early next.
We’re reading a book about the Lord right now.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

Jesus doesn't say He saves humanity from their sins. John 3:16 has a different meaning. The world in that verse means the orderly cosmos which God created. The lack of law and order would end the world... because the 7-headed dragon of Babylon is Tiamat... Chaos. People who don't want laws are rebels... but they're also the first ones to complain about how others are treating them... which doesn't make sense if there is no law. In reality, Psalms 2, fits them.

1 John 1:8-9 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Which doesn't mean confess to some random person, it means this:

Matthew 5:22-24 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Matthew 18:21-35 So likewise shall My heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Repent and Forgive is the anchor of the Gospel of the Kingdom.
We have been forgiven, and forgive our brethren. John 1:16.
Matthew 9:13... sinners to repentance.KJV

You are wise, .Jeremiah., let no one take this from you, Revelation 3:11.

Thank you Ligurian.

All my wisdom, what little there is, comes from the Lord.

I realize I know nothing. All my wisdom, all my love, all my life comes from the Lord.

I agree wholeheartedly about repent and forgive.
I still remember the time when I recognized the evil inside me, and finally repented. Amazing experience.

Also, I noticed the many times that repentance is spoken of in Revelation.

I have come across people who don’t seem to have a concept of repentance. I find it odd, considering it’s so often stated in the Bible.

It is enjoyable communicating with you Ligurian.

 

[RDKirk]

hmmm, okay

i have heard that before, probably in a church building

thanks for sharing

And so you don't believe it?

As I pointed out, not a single work of scripture was written by Jesus. None of it. Other men wrote about Jesus what the Holy Spirit inspired them to write.

If you don't believe in that work of the Holy Spirit to inspire the scripture writers (and as well, the scripture keepers through the years), then you have nothing. There is no scripture, there are no words of Jesus to study without the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ligurian]

As of a few days ago, I only was exposed to Zechariah
Now you’ve introduced me to Zacharias
Great verses, thank you for that.

It seems like I will have much to read.

I agree about Matthew. So many beautiful verses.

And Revelation. I mentioned that my wife and I have gone through it twice. We are hoping to have a third run later this year or early next.
We’re reading a book about the Lord right now.

Septuagint is what Jesus quoted. The names are often very different... Zacharias/Zechariah... not very much. I like the Greek OT which matches the Greek New Testament and makes verse matching easier. There's so much Greek taken into English, that a lot of it seems familiar... I've learned much by studying interlinear. The translations are not always... without guile.

Matthew is filled with parables and many of them are prophecies. John is obviously written by a man who had the Holy Spirit for a very long time and was thereby taught what Jesus means in His sayings... much of John is written only for the Disciples, and audience matters. Revelation puts together the Prophets... Prophecy has been my focus from day one. Thy Kingdom come.

 

[Ligurian]

Thank you Ligurian.

All my wisdom, what little there is, comes from the Lord.

I realize I know nothing. All my wisdom, all my love, all my life comes from the Lord.

Esaias 22:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call My servant Eliakim(god of rising) the son of Chelcias(portion of Jah): 21 and I will put on Him thy robe, and I will grant Him thy crown with power, and I will give thy stewardship into His hands: and He shall be as a father to them that dwell in Jerusalem, and to them that dwell in Juda. 22 And I will give Him the glory of David; and He shall rule, and there shall be none to speak against Him: and I will give Him the key of the house of David upon His shoulder; and He shall open, and there shall be none to shut; and He shall shut, and there shall be none to open. 23 And I will make Him a ruler in a sure place, and He shall be for a glorious throne of His Father’s house. 24 And every one that is glorious in the house of His Father shall trust in Him, from the least to the greatest; and they shall depend upon Him in that day. 25 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, The man that is fastened in the sure place shall be removed and be taken away, and shall fall; and the glory that is upon Him shall be utterly destroyed: for the Lord has spoken it.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David, He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My God: and My new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty four thousand, having His Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred forty four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women*; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men, the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

_____________
* strange women = other gods, idolotry... eating foods sacrificed to idols.

 

[Ligurian]

As I pointed out, not a single work of scripture was written by Jesus. None of it. Other men wrote about Jesus what the Holy Spirit inspired them to write.

But that's not true, for the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Jesus to His Galilean Disciples

John 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, one shepherd.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept My word, they will keep yours also. 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with Me from the beginning.

John 17:6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, in Me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.

Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Master: for one is your Teacher, Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, unto the end of the world. Amen.

John 14:26... to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

It's the same message, all the way through. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[RDKirk]

But that's not true, for the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Jesus to His Galilean Disciples

John 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, one shepherd.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept My word, they will keep yours also. 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with Me from the beginning.

John 17:6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, in Me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.

Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Master: for one is your Teacher, Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, unto the end of the world. Amen.

John 14:26... to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

It's the same message, all the way through. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Jesus did not write those words down. Those words were written by another man inspired by the Holy Spirit decades later, and preserved by men also inspired by the Holy Spirit for hundreds of years later.

 

[Ligurian]

I'm thinking you aren't very familiar with the Gospel of the Kingdom and then you dismiss it out of hand. You'd be wise not to believe everything commentators, so-called historians and archaeologists have said about who was where when.

 

[michael21]

Please don’t get offended from my post here.

My goal is to learn. I am quite new to Christianity and still learning.

My problem is possibly that I have a deep thirst to learn more about the Lord. All the time. I study the Bible virtually every day.

Today, during my study, something new came to me. Oddly, a concept that was causing me some mental anguish was relieved when reading a chapter in Zechariah. I surely wasn’t expecting it, but it led me into a further search. I decided to put my findings into words and post it here. I am seeking constructive comments and guidance.

Personally, I focus primarily on the OT, and heavily on the gospels, particularly the words of Jesus. If you have information to assist me, please use those portions of our beautiful Bible. Thanks to all.


So here we go:


It doesn’t seem to make sense that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.


Let’s examine this concept from statements in the gospels which give us information relative to the life of Jesus. I will considerably simplify this for brevity.


Jesus was born.


At age 12, he visits the temple.


He is a carpenter until age 30.


When he was around 30 years old, he is baptized and begins a ministry.


From this point until his day of crucifixion he traveled around Judea; enlisted some followers, performed miracles, taught the people, schooled the pharisees, and had a few temptations.


Let’s now focus on the final day.


It appears that some people think that Jesus’ purpose was to die on a cross for the sins of some people. Let’s examine this claim.


First, it must be that the Lord came to the earth for some purpose.

Unless there is a purpose, why do anything?

We probably all agree that the Lord had a purpose, but what is that purpose?

After the arrival on earth, the Lord proceeded to exercise various means available to him to reach his intended result.

And when the result occurs, following his purpose, then the purpose has been completed, or finished.


Matthew 5:17-18: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


(The law and prophets are the Christian Old Testament.)

Which are the ONLY scriptures that Jesus ever spoke of.


From the above, it appears that we can see the purpose.

His purpose was stated by the Lord himself, so hopefully, we cannot disagree.


Now, what exactly MUST be fulfilled? Is it a few select verses here and there?


John 5:39. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


The Lord himself again tells us the answer. ALL the scriptures testify of him, then all must be fulfilled. What are these scriptures he speaks about? Most people would probably conclude that they are what Christians refer to as the Old Testament. That’s it.


The life of Jesus and his work are spoken of throughout the Scriptures, there is no doubt.


So the purpose of the Lord, fulfilling the scriptures, would be his ‘enactment’ of all events in those scriptures. When is this purpose, then, completed?


Many times in the gospels the Lord speaks about fulfilling the scriptures. The night before his death, he chastened Peter, after Peter cut an ear off a servant:


Matthew 26:52-54 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?


The final time on the cross:


John 19:24 24. They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.


And it continues:


John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.


We see that the purpose that the Lord came for was accomplished.


After being accomplished, Jesus spoke his final words:


John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


“It is finished”.


His final words tell us that his purpose was finished.


Nothing else to do, so Jesus “gave up the ghost”


He gave his own life, no one on earth took it.


He had accomplished his purpose.


The death of the empty body hanging on the cross came AFTER his purpose was finished.


It appears that the death is merely the end of the earthly body, since the purpose of Jesus was accomplished by the spirit within, which was released by him just before his death.

God bless you if you made it through that long post of mine.

I would suggest you move on to read Paul's letters. They expound on the christian message, and would bring a more rounded knowledge of the faith. God bless

 

[Ligurian]

I would suggest you move on to read Paul's letters. They expound on the christian message, and would bring a more rounded knowledge of the faith. God bless

Matthew 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all He sent unto them His son, saying, They will reverence My Son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the Son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill Him, and let us seize on His inheritance. 39 And they caught Him, and cast [him] out of the vineyard, and slew [him].

21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out [his] vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard His parables, they perceived that He spake of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitude, because they took Him for a prophet.

John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on Him that sent Me. 45 And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

Some people think that the words of the Father aren't complete in and of themselves. But His words are Eternal Life, and these words are the ones that will be used to judge men. When they finally figure this out, it will be too late. Jesus warned His sheep of these people:

John 10:8 All that ever came before Me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

pro = a primary preposition; "fore", i.e. in front of, prior (figuratively, superior) to:--above, ago, before, or ever. In the comparative, it retains the same significations.

I suggest that you to bow to the authority of the words given to Jesus by the Father, which Jesus gave to the Galilean Apostles, of which the Holy Spirit reminded them, and then He taught them what Jesus meant by these words. No other gospel has this doctrine, for this is the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. It is a Gospel of Works, for by works comes the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[michael21]

Matthew 21:33

I suggest that you to bow to the authority of the words given to Jesus by the Father, which Jesus gave to the Galilean Apostles, of which the Holy Spirit reminded them and and then He taught them what Jesus meant by these words. No other gospel has this doctrine, for this is the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. It is a gospel of works, and by works comes the Holy Spirit of God.

I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Gal3:2&3

I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth John 16:12&13
What Christ taught in Gospels could be understood without the indwelling Holy Spirit according to Christ's words. The Apostles who wrote their letters after the Gospels were filled with the Holy Spirit and wrote to those also so filled. Its good to read what could not be explained in the Gospels

 

[.Jeremiah.]

I would suggest you move on to read Paul's letters. They expound on the christian message, and would bring a more rounded knowledge of the faith. God bless

I hear what you’re saying.

However (I dislike using that word), I really prefer to listen to what the Lord says.

But I do understand how Paul’s words speak dearly to religion.

My wife and I were studying a concept from Romans earlier today.
I don’t dismiss Paul, there are many wonderful comments from him, but I prefer the Lord’s own words.

I have seen way too many instances where alleged Christians use Paul’s misunderstood words for evil deeds, while disregarding what the Lord says on the subject.

Strange though, one time in a Bible study, someone brought up something that he wanted to do, that I thought was wrong.
I didn’t say it was wrong, instead I quoted a beautiful verse from Paul.
The person did not recognize what Paul was saying because it conflicted with his own desire.

Since, I’m old and relatively new to the Lord’s kingdom, I will have to limit what I read. When I read the Bible, I do so to understand it.
There are times, when my wife and I read a verse, and spend an hour discussing it.

One year in a Bible study, we all were going to read the Bible on a daily basis. There was a book that got you through the Bible in one year.
So on January 1 we started, and is all we did was take turns reading verses. I like to read and understand what the Lord is saying.

 

[michael21]

I hear what you’re saying.

However (I dislike using that word), I really prefer to listen to what the Lord says.

But I do understand how Paul’s words speak dearly to religion.

My wife and I were studying a concept from Romans earlier today.
I don’t dismiss Paul, there are many wonderful comments from him, but I prefer the Lord’s own words.

I have seen way too many instances where alleged Christians use Paul’s misunderstood words for evil deeds, while disregarding what the Lord says on the subject.

Strange though, one time in a Bible study, someone brought up something that he wanted to do, that I thought was wrong.
I didn’t say it was wrong, instead I quoted a beautiful verse from Paul.
The person did not recognize what Paul was saying because it conflicted with his own desire.

Since, I’m old and relatively new to the Lord’s kingdom, I will have to limit what I read. When I read the Bible, I do so to understand it.
There are times, when my wife and I read a verse, and spend an hour discussing it.

One year in a Bible study, we all were going to read the Bible on a daily basis. There was a book that got you through the Bible in one year.
So on January 1 we started, and is all we did was take turns reading verses. I like to read and understand what the Lord is saying.

Well whatever gives you peace in your walk it is good to follow I would say. Paul can be hard at times to understand I know. God Bless

 

[.Jeremiah.]

I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Gal3:2&3

I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth John 16:12&13
What Christ taught in Gospels could be understood without the indwelling Holy Spirit according to Christ's words. The Apostles who wrote their letters after the Gospels were filled with the Holy Spirit and wrote to those also so filled. Its good to read what could not be explained in the Gospels

Matthew 5:17-19
King James Version

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Notice 17: The Lord did NOT come to destroy the law.

Notice 19: He who breaks ONE of the LEAST commandments, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. That means, all those people in the Christian religion who are abusing people, and all the corrupt church leaders being exposed for evils are in a bit of trouble, wouldn’t you say? Yet, they think their faith alone has saved them by grace.
I noticed there was a famous apologetic who was found to have done a great deal of evil, during his life. I’m guessing he died thinking that grace saved him from his sins. I think the part of 5:19 where it says “and shall teach men so” would apply to him.

Also, notice the second part of 5:19: “but whosoever shall DO and TEACH them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven”

What do you think the Lord is telling us when he says DO?

Oh, by the way, I have read dozens of times in the gospels, James, and the Old Testament, where we are commanded to DO.

Is it possible that through misunderstanding a single verse written by a guy who came AFTER the Lord spoke, could possibly lead people astray?

God bless.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

Well whatever gives you peace in your walk it is good to follow I would say. Paul can be hard at times to understand I know. God Bless

Paul was hard early on because it was so religious.

But after getting to know the Lord, I started to notice a new understanding of Paul’s words.

I think I’ve mentioned, that I have found numerous beautiful and wise sayings from him.

But to me, that is merely icing on the cake.

I enjoy our discussion Michael.

Let’s keep it going.

I am very much open to learning new ideas.

God bless.

 

[Ligurian]

I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Gal3:2&3

I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth John 16:12&13
What Christ taught in Gospels could be understood without the indwelling Holy Spirit according to Christ's words. The Apostles who wrote their letters after the Gospels were filled with the Holy Spirit and wrote to those also so filled. Its good to read what could not be explained in the Gospels

What Jesus says is only honestly interpreted by Jesus' Disciples to whom the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven is revealed, Matthew 13:11. The Holy Spirit within those sanctified by the word of truth from the Father, John 17:17 (Jesus' prayer to the Father for the Galilean Apostles and for those who believe on Jesus because of their word John 17:20) is given because they've kept Jesus' Commandments, John 14:15-17.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

In fact, since the Holy Spirit was given to these men in John 20:21-23, the Eleven Apostles were spirit-filled when they taught Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom. This giving is obvious, when we read where the Galilean Apostles Matthew and John tell us why Jesus did and said certain things. And so... Peter, who was sent to the circumcision: the lost sheep of the house of Israel, 1 Peter 1, repeats this mission of Matthew 9:36-38 through Matthew 10 to Matthew 11. And since we know Matthew 12:28, then we know the power given them is the Holy Spirit, in Matthew 10:1. And in Revelation 11:3, as well.

I'm well aware of Galatians 1:6 Galatians 2:7-9 Galatians 3:2...
Salvation vs : service.

So... in Matthew 26:13... If what this woman did in preparation for His burial is the Gospel, then Jesus lived and taught this Gospel of the Kingdom. Matthew 24:14. And so do His Galilean Disciples, Matthew 10:7 Matthew 28:18-20. And Jesus says their word is that by which other sheep will become, with the Galilean Apostles, one fold, John 17:20, John 10:16.