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Why did the Lord come to the earth?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by .Jeremiah., Aug 2, 2021.

  1. .Jeremiah.

    .Jeremiah. Active Member

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    Please don’t get offended from my post here.

    My goal is to learn. I am quite new to Christianity and still learning.

    My problem is possibly that I have a deep thirst to learn more about the Lord. All the time. I study the Bible virtually every day.

    Today, during my study, something new came to me. Oddly, a concept that was causing me some mental anguish was relieved when reading a chapter in Zechariah. I surely wasn’t expecting it, but it led me into a further search. I decided to put my findings into words and post it here. I am seeking constructive comments and guidance.

    Personally, I focus primarily on the OT, and heavily on the gospels, particularly the words of Jesus. If you have information to assist me, please use those portions of our beautiful Bible. Thanks to all.


    So here we go:


    It doesn’t seem to make sense that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.


    Let’s examine this concept from statements in the gospels which give us information relative to the life of Jesus. I will considerably simplify this for brevity.


    Jesus was born.


    At age 12, he visits the temple.


    He is a carpenter until age 30.


    When he was around 30 years old, he is baptized and begins a ministry.


    From this point until his day of crucifixion he traveled around Judea; enlisted some followers, performed miracles, taught the people, schooled the pharisees, and had a few temptations.


    Let’s now focus on the final day.


    It appears that some people think that Jesus’ purpose was to die on a cross for the sins of some people. Let’s examine this claim.


    First, it must be that the Lord came to the earth for some purpose.

    Unless there is a purpose, why do anything?

    We probably all agree that the Lord had a purpose, but what is that purpose?

    After the arrival on earth, the Lord proceeded to exercise various means available to him to reach his intended result.

    And when the result occurs, following his purpose, then the purpose has been completed, or finished.


    Matthew 5:17-18: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


    (The law and prophets are the Christian Old Testament.)

    Which are the ONLY scriptures that Jesus ever spoke of.


    From the above, it appears that we can see the purpose.

    His purpose was stated by the Lord himself, so hopefully, we cannot disagree.


    Now, what exactly MUST be fulfilled? Is it a few select verses here and there?


    John 5:39. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


    The Lord himself again tells us the answer. ALL the scriptures testify of him, then all must be fulfilled. What are these scriptures he speaks about? Most people would probably conclude that they are what Christians refer to as the Old Testament. That’s it.


    The life of Jesus and his work are spoken of throughout the Scriptures, there is no doubt.


    So the purpose of the Lord, fulfilling the scriptures, would be his ‘enactment’ of all events in those scriptures. When is this purpose, then, completed?


    Many times in the gospels the Lord speaks about fulfilling the scriptures. The night before his death, he chastened Peter, after Peter cut an ear off a servant:


    Matthew 26:52-54 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?


    The final time on the cross:


    John 19:24 24. They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.


    And it continues:


    John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.


    We see that the purpose that the Lord came for was accomplished.


    After being accomplished, Jesus spoke his final words:


    John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


    “It is finished”.


    His final words tell us that his purpose was finished.


    Nothing else to do, so Jesus “gave up the ghost”


    He gave his own life, no one on earth took it.


    He had accomplished his purpose.


    The death of the empty body hanging on the cross came AFTER his purpose was finished.


    It appears that the death is merely the end of the earthly body, since the purpose of Jesus was accomplished by the spirit within, which was released by him just before his death.

    God bless you if you made it through that long post of mine.
     
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  2. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    The fulfillment of the scriptures was the good news which shall be to all people.
    Jesus said what he came to do at the beginning of his ministry:
    Isaiah 61:1 says the spirit of the Lord God hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; He hath sent me to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those that are bound.

    Luke 4:18
    "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the Gospel to the poor. He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

    20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him.
    21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

    It is about the gospel.
     
  3. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The overwhelming percentage of Christians here will tell you that Jesus came to Earth to die on the cross and thus save humankind from their sins. However, a few of us will tell you that the main reason that Jesus came was to teach us to love God and love each other. By the way, you are not alone in emphasizing the importance of the Gospels. Some Christians agree with you in this regard.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
  4. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Hello @.Jeremiah., remember that God told Israel that they needed to atone for their sins to be forgiven and live, which they did at that time (on a temporary basis*) by the blood of bulls and goats, etc., that were sacrificed on the altar.

    To make a long story a bit shorter, we are given this additional information in the Book of Hebrews.

    Hebrews 9
    22 All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

    Hebrews 10
    4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
    There is also this, the "news" (so to speak) from God, and that news is that we need to be as innocent and as righteous as God is if we want to spend eternity in His presence.

    The "bad news" is, no one is (perfectly innocent and/or perfectly righteous, that is).

    The "Good News" (which stated concisely is, "Jesus Christ and Him crucified" .. 1 Corinthians 2:2) is that God chose to send His only-begotten Son here to do for us what we are incapable of doing for ourselves,

    1. by living a perfectly righteous life before His Father, the life that we needed to live before Him (for us/on our behalf) and,
    2. by dying on the Cross (in our stead) to atone for our sins, so that we can be forgiven of our sins, be reconciled to God, and be saved from His wrath in the age to come.​

    Therefore, the Lord Jesus Christ (who the Bible also calls, "the spotless Lamb of God") is our ~only~ innocence, our ~only~ righteousness, and the ~only~ atonement and satisfaction for our sins. As the Scriptures tell us,

    2 Corinthians 5
    21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

    I hope this was helpful! Questions? Please don't hesitate to ask them if you have some, and I will do my best to answer them.

    God bless you :)

    --David
    p.s. - so we'll have them here if we need them, here are some other Scripture verses/passages that may be pertinent to this discussion.

    Matthew 1
    21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.

    Romans 3
    25 God presented Jesus as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in His blood. He did this to demonstrate His justice, because in His forbearance He left the sins committed in times past unpunished.
    *
    26 He did this to demonstrate His justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

    Romans 5
    8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
    9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
    10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
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  5. .Jeremiah.

    .Jeremiah. Active Member

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    thanks so much for your words

    sometimes I feel so all alone in my thinking
     
  6. .Jeremiah.

    .Jeremiah. Active Member

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    Okay

    Thank you for that.

    So, since I’m pretty much only reading the gospels and then researching through the Old Testament to expand on concepts, I will ask you about the Matthew verse you quoted.


    The first part is pretty straightforward, so I want to concentrate on the ending: “He will save his people from their sins.”


    To me, that’s a wonderful verse. I suppose that’s dumb to say, since there are no non wonderful verses.

    But I must say that I appreciate you quoting it, because that caused me to give it some more thought, in the context of other verses, especially the one about loving your neighbor as yourself.

    It made me reflect on my experiences.

    I will share one from recently, although it’s not too interesting, but it’s how I see the Lord saving me:

    I have always been pretty aggressive, type A, ‘me first’ personally.

    The more I read the Lord’s words, the more I understand that particular personality needs some serious taming.

    (I’m not going to get into my driving habits for 50 years, and how they have changed dramatically the past couple.)

    So I will relate a simple incident:

    I’m returning something to Walmart.

    I’m heading for the door with my bag.

    There is a woman coming the other direction with a bag.

    She is closer to the door, but I walk fast, and realize I can easily get past her and get to the service desk much quicker.

    My old self would have done just that, no doubt.

    Without a thought about her or anyone else.

    And sure enough, I began to accelerate.

    Then, I think of the Lord’s words.

    Not just “treat others as yourself”, but what about


    Mark 9:35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.


    Well, I slowed my pace, a lot, and the lady got there slightly in front of me, and took 10 minutes but wasn’t able to even return her item, then I returned mine in about 2 minutes.

    But, you know what, I felt pleased with the outcome, because the Lord won out, and my desire was defeated.


    That’s how I see myself being saved.

    I’m saved from my bad, unkind, impatient, angry, crappy behavior.

    Saved every day.

    Sometimes it doesn’t work, but the times of failure are less and less.

    To me, salvation is a process, one that works to purify me a little bit more day by day.

    Sorry for the long story, and thanks again for responding to me, StWorm
     
  7. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Jesus came to earth for two reasons 1. To take away the sin of the world and 2. To offer the kingdom of God to that generation of Israel.

    If The Nation of Israel would have accepted Jesus as The Messiah. After His death and resurrection, Jesus would have established the 1000 year Messianic kingdom rule. But The nation of Israel rejected Jesus as The Messiah (Matthew 12), so this kingdom offer was rescinded from that generation. And will be offered to a later generation who will accept it and then God will establish The Messianic Kingdom 1000 year rule on earth.
     
  8. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Satan has been spreading lies about God since before creation ....

    Jesus IS God ..... He came to earth to reveal what/who God really is. God is love!
    The entire bible is a revelation of Himself and His interaction with mankind .... and by giving His life for us .... those who believe will be reconciled back to God .... and yes prophesy must be fulfilled .... it testifies that God knows the beginning to the end and also serves to increase our faith.

    John 14:9

    9 Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

    2nd Peter 1:19

    Berean Study Bible
    We also have the word of the prophets as confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

    He finished His work on earth .... He is now our High Priest in heaven ministering from the sanctuary there .... and will continue to do so until He returns.
     
  9. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    First of all, which verse in Zechariah are you talking about?

    Second, Jesus didn't spend most of His time in Judea because they started trying to kill Him as early as John 7. In fact, Jesus started His priestly mission in Galilee of the Nation. (the same Greek word translated as "Gentiles" is also translated as "Nation") "Nation" makes sense in this verse because Jesus fulfils the Scripture in Hosea which says in the same place where it was said to the house of Israel (as opposed to the house of Juda), ye are not My people, they will be called the sons of God... and Peter knows this is about the 10 northern tribes because he quotes this verse and applies it to the diaspora audience in 1 Peter 1. Juda hasn't yet stopped saying the 10 tribes are dead to them... maybe because the house of Israel told Juda to feed themselves when Solomon's even more evil son wanted to drain the rest of their blood and use it for even more expensive toys.

    Third, the word fulfilled in that verse means to make replete, to cram... to stuff. Because Jesus says Moses allowed things because of the hardness of their hearts, including putting aside their wives for other than adultery. So Jesus rolls back those laws in favor of judging the hearts before the action can take place which will harm someone else. And these words are definitely being taught against all over the world... what will the King do to these people who refuse to love Him with all their heart, soul, and mind? It won't be pretty, John 12:48.

    Fourth, I'm guessing you left verse 29 out because you didn't know how it mattered... but it's the crux of the matter, because it made Jesus the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.

    John 19:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to His mouth.

    Exodus 12:21 And Moses called all the elders of the children of Israel, and said to them, Go away and take to yourselves a lamb according to your kindreds, and slay the passover. 22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and having dipped it into some of the blood that is by the door, ye shall touch the lintel, and shall put it upon both door-posts, even of the blood which is by the door; but ye shall not go out every one from the door of his house till the morning. ... 26 And it shall come to pass, if your sons say to you, What is this service? 27 that ye shall say to them, "This passover is a sacrifice to the Lord, as He defended the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when He smote the Egyptians, but delivered our houses."

    This makes Jesus is the advocate of those who are being acused by the devil... He defends us before God in Heaven and will do so until Revelation 12:10 comes to pass... at which time the Kingdom is announced, because then the dragon comes to earth full time. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God, and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ. The woman is heavenly Sion, Isaiah 66:8. In John 12:50, Jesus says He speaks the Commandments given Him by God... so these are Jesus' Commandments, not Mosaic Law... so in Revelation 12:17 are what the devil hates, specifically. If you don't want to be bothered by the dragon, you find a way around John 14:15.
     
  10. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Why do you make this a binary decision? Jesus came to teach us to love God and love each other and also Jesus came to Earth to die on the cross and thus save humankind from their sins.
     
  11. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    Not love:

    John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent Me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear My word. 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    versus Love:

    John 14:21 He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.

    versus not love:

    Matthew 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

    versus Love:

    John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down His life for His friends. 14 Ye are My friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
     
  12. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    I would recommend spending some more time in the letter to the Hebrews because that letter was written to people who focused on the OT and had the same question.

    Then come back her.
     
  13. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    Audience matters. These verses are being said to and of the Galilean Apostles.

    John 15:12 This is My commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

    John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me; for they are Thine. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in Me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

    Love is conditional. The Father gave the Galilean Apostles to Jesus, and they kept the Father's word which Jesus teaches. Jesus says many when He talks about His blood being shed. God doesn't do anything in vain. Jesus didn't die for those who would never do what He says. The world in John 3:16 is the orderly cosmos, which is being shaken by the lawlessness of those to whom God Most High said "ye are gods." The angels are called gods in Psalms 82 and those to whom the law came are called sons of God, John 10:34... but they will die as men and fall as a prince. The angels are called princes, too... the prince of this world has been judged... and will fall. Babylon will be judged.

    _______________
    So... Part of the reason Jesus came is to tell us who are His enemies... which He does, through many parables... which are actually prophecies and cannot fail.
     
  14. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    "The person who does not love does not know God, because God is love." 1 John 4:8
     
  15. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    The Gospels of the Galilean Apostles are blessed by Jesus in John 17:20. The letters to the churches of Revelation 2 and Revelation 3 are also vital. In the Law, I choose what matches the commandments of Jesus... He considers Psalms to be Law, apparently... and I study Isaiah, or rather Esaias, since Jesus quotes the Septuagint... and I study Daniel and the Revelation.

    That letter to the Hebrews is based upon the sacrificial system... of which Isaiah 66 says they have chosen their own ways... ways in which God delights not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
  16. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    Audience matters... to whom is 1 John 4 written? And what do the opening verses say... is love given to those who don't accept the Messiah?
    God's ways are not man's ways... thank Heaven.

    Psalms 82:1 God stands in the assembly of gods; and in the midst of them will judge gods. 2 How long will ye judge unrighteously, and accept the persons of sinners? Pause. 3 Judge the orphan and poor: do justice to the low and needy. 4 Rescue the needy, and deliver the poor out of the hand of the sinner. 5 They know not, nor understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth shall be shaken. 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you children of the Most High. 7 But ye die as men, and fall as one of the princes.
    8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for Thou shalt inherit all nations.LXX

    John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If He called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of Him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
     
  17. .Jeremiah.

    .Jeremiah. Active Member

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    Thanks for asking and responding


    It began when I was reading something else which led me to Zechariah 14.

    So I started reading Zechariah 14

    The parts that were sticking out for me were verse 1

    Verse 7 “at evening time it shall be light”

    Then verse 9 is what prompted me to go deeper and eventually lead to what I wrote here.

    Last part of verse 11 also.

    I will need a LOT more examining into that chapter.

    Pretty incredible stuff, I’m sure I can study it forever and continue to gain more insight little by little.

    For your second item, I as going to say around Galilee but didn’t think that was appropriate either, since the ending happened in Judah I just wrote that.

    The third item. I did remember the passover story in Exodus and understand the link between the lamb and Jesus. To apply it to my concept of “fulfilling” the scriptures, as I have been using, it seems that John 19:29 does that as well, but because it wasn’t stated in the verse I didn’t include it.

    I’m glad you mentioned John 14:15. It’s a wonderful verse.
    Personally, John is probably my favorite book.


    Thanks for sharing your wisdom with me, Ligurian.
     
  18. .Jeremiah.

    .Jeremiah. Active Member

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    Very well said.

    There is no good reason to make it a binary decision.

    Now that you got me thinking a little bit more, the dying on the cross is no doubt part of the plan. I think I was looking at the “job” Jesus came for was concluded on the cross, and then after that he gave up his life willingly. The saving humanity for their sins doesn’t make sense to me, because the Lord saves me from my sins every day.
    If saving me from my sins was done on the cross, then what is going on now? I am a sinner now. I need the Lord to save me now, and every day I live.
     
  19. .Jeremiah.

    .Jeremiah. Active Member

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    Thank you for that Ligurian.

    Since my study has not been long, I have mainly done Genesis up to around Sodom. I’ve studied a lot of Isaiah and Jeremiah, Psalms are wonderful. I’ve actually read Revelation twice. First time got nothing from it. Second time a couple years later was great. Obviously really like the gospels, especially when Jesus is speaking.

    As for Paul, I don’t go for that too much unless I’m lead there for some reason, but two of his verses really stick out:

    Romans 7:15
    probably because I can relate to that so well
    And then 1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
     
  20. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    All of scripture is given by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. There is no part of it that is more valid than another. It's all equally valid. None of it was written by Jesus, it was all written by men inspired by the same Holy Spirit, and their work was copied, shared, and cherished by men inspired by the same Holy Spirit.
     
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