Why did Jesus say to the Father: YOU, the ONLY true God!

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Originally posted by edpobre
sOuljah,

Can't you see that you are being BLINDED by your pride? And it has gotten even worse. You have resorted to BLASPHEMING the Bible which is the WORD of God!

Ed

Why, by saying you shouldnt worship an inanimate object? What was that saying about idol worship?
 
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wblastyn

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wblastyn,

These are the bishops from AMONG the Christians who TURNED AWAY from the TRUE faith and SPOKE derstructive HERESIES, even DENYING the Lord who brought them (2 Peter 2:1-3).

These are the bishops from AMONG the Christians who TURNED AWAY from the TRUE faith and SPOKE perverse things to DRAW AWAY discipes after them (Acts 20:29-30).
That says it all, you have no idea what you are talking about. These men defended the Church against people like you, heretics, yes and that is exactly what you are, by making Jesus less than He is you are making a farce of His work and spreading heresy.

These are the bishops from AMONG the Christians who, EVEN during apostle Paul's time, were already preaching ANOTHER Jesus, ANOTHER Spirit and ANOTHER gospel (2 Cor. 11:3-4; Gal. 1:6-9).
THEY WERE DISCIPLES OF THE APOSTLES! THEY WERE TEACHING WHAT THE APOSTLES TAUGHT THEM!

Compare what Jesus and the apostles PREACHED against what these bishops wrote.

I can see you now, "lalalalaalalallaaalaal I can't hear you, I am right and you are wrong, lalalalalalalalallaalallalalala"

No, they taught what the Apostles taught them, get it right.

Jesus TAUGHT that he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3,1). God is SPIRIT (John 4:24). The apostles TAUGHT that Jesus is a MAN (Acts 2:22; Acts 17:31; Rom. 5:15; 1 Tim. 2:5). The apostles TAUGHT that the FATHER is the ONLY ONE God (1 Cor. 8:6; 2 Cor. 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3; Eph. 1:3; Col. 1:3).
I KNOW THAT!

Jesus is both God and Man, He added humanity to His divinity at the incarnation, He is a hypostatic union, two seperate natures making ONE unit. He is not a man with "God in him" HE is GOD INCARNATE - God made flesh.

CLEARLY, these bishops are the FULFILLMENT of apostle Paul's PROPHECY regarding those who TRUNED AWAY from the TRUE faith and gave HEED to DECEIVING spirits and DOCTRINES of DEMONS: FOBIDDING to marry; and COMMANDING to ABSTAIN from flesh food..." (1 Tim. 4:1-3).
Do have have any clue about Church history? These men were taught by the Apostles. How can you say these things, they helped defend the church against persecution, heresy (people like YOU) and are the foundation of the Church.

Don't you SEE that these bishops or so-called "early Church Fathers" were the FULFILLMENT of these PROPHECIES?
No, I can see you are the "FULFILLMENT of these PROPHECIES".

What you say about these men and Jesus makes me so angry, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Please research the early church and ask God to remove these stupid lies from your head and get your act together.

You CANNOT expect to fully understand an all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful, infinite God, humans are finite beings.
 
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ocean

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edpobre,

Youre posts are nothing more than mindless rants and personal attacks. I don't know whether you are a Christian or not but you are not being Christ-like. You are trying to FORCE other people to believe exactly as you do, and you are doing it in a very rude and disrespectful manner. It's people like you that drive people away from Christianity.
 
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Soul_Searcher

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Hi Ed. I just can't resist. You said, "Tell me why I should even bother to reply to your posts when you belive ONLY the gospels and said that you don't even read apostle Paul's letters? Do you think it is productive for me to talk to someone who does NOT believe the SAME book I read and believe in? Can any team play a football game with another team who plays with a DIFFERENT set of rules? No way my friend."

I have read and still read Paul's letters, but that is all they are, letters. People keep trying to say, "Jesus said this" and then they quote Paul, or Peter. But Paul and Peter are writing from their own understanding, their own 'revelations' as it were. To hear and understand what JESUS said, you can only go to the 4 Gospels where Jesus is quoted directly. Anything else is filtered through man (not to say the Gospels aren't, but still they quote as best they can.)

How do you explain the discrepency between Galatians 1:15-19 and Acts 9 where Paul supposedly has his coversion and goes immediately to Jerusalem after he recovers?

Again I say, if you want to quote Jesus, quote Jesus in the Gospels. If you quote Paul or Peter or James or John, know that you're only quoting men, not God and not Jesus. That's all.
 
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fieldsofwind

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Do you not see who the Word of God is ed???

IN Rev 19 the Word is revealed... He is the Word of God... to man! John starting at 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him NOTHING was made that has been MADE. In him was life, and that life was the light of MEN.... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth...No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

ed you continue to see the Christ who made HIMSELF nothing to become our sacrifice... do you think that it was impossible for God to do this??? Do you put those limitations on the One who weighed the universe in His hands??? Do you believe Him when He says that He is the

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS

Do you believe Him when He says that He is the Alpha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... the First and the Last???

when two things finish in first place together at the end of a race... are they not of equal speed???

What does LORD mean ed???

Isaiah 42:8....... I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.

Isaiah 43:10....... You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chasen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. I, even I, amd the LORD and apart from me there is no savior.

Isaiah 43:3....... For I am the LORD, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior....


I believe
 
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fieldsofwind

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Posted from the Book of John: No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Posted by ed: "God the One and Only" is at the Father's side. The one at the Father's side is "God the One and Only." Therefore, the Father is NOT God, right?

No ed... they are one thing... the same...



Posted by FOW: when two things finish in first place together at the end of a race... are they not of equal speed???

Posted by ed: Yes and they are TWO separate "things" or Gods.

Isaiah 43:10....... You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chasen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. I, even I, amd the LORD and apart from me there is no savior.

Christ is the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS!!! This is the title upon Christ in Revelation...

Isaiah 42:8....... I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.

Posted by ed: The Bible says that Jesus is "King of Kings and Lord of Lords." That's because God has put all things UNDER his feet (1 Cor. 15:27).

The Bible says: Isaiah 42:8....... I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.



Posted by ed: "I was only repeating what you said about "TWO things" which you REFUSE to refer as TWO Gods. That's why I said, "there are TWO "things" or TWO 'Gods'."

The Bible says: (phil 2:5-11) Your attitude should be the sme as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, bein made in human likeness.

He is God, who made Himself nothing, to die, to become obedient to the penalty of mans sin... to become that sin on the cross.

verse 10: "that at the name of Jesus every knee shold bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Remember... God says that He will not give His glory to another... he did not make any other gods... He and He alone is God. Christ is not a piece of God... He is not another sub-god... He is God, who became a man... becoming subject to the Father... And then Glorified again by the Father. God the Father cannot be in the presence of sin... to sacrifice Himself for us... the ultimate sacrifice... the ultimate love... He had to become a man, and subject Himself to man's death. I simply believe it... I don't have to completely understand it... I believe it because He says to.


Believe ed
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by gunnysgt
. Phil. 2 :5-11 solves all that challenges of his being subordinate. If one wants to look to Christ not being in this subordinate position the 2nd coming should be clear enough in Rev.17:14 "These shall make war with the Lamb and the Lamb shall overcome them; for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings."

The Let's Reason Ministries (LRM) do NOT know what they are talking about gunnysgt. The reason Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings is because God EXALTED him and MADE him Lord (Acts 2:36). God put ALL things UNDER his feet (1 Cor. 15:27). Jesus himself will be SUBJECT to God who put ALL things UNDER him that God may be ALL in ALL (1 Cor. 15:28).

Jesus SAID that he proceeded forth and CAME from God. He did NOT come by himself. God SENT him (God 8:42).

If Jesus is EQUAL to God, is there anything in the Bible which tells us that Jesus SENT God? NONE! Therefore, Jesus is NOT equal to God.

Jesus SAID that the FATHER is GREATER than he (John 14:28) and GREATER than ALL (John 10:49). If Jesus is God, who is the FATHER who is GREATER than he? Is anyone GREATER than God?

Deut.10:17 tells us that Yahweh is the LORD OF LORDS. Only if Christ IS Yahweh and the Father IS Yahweh do we have any consistency in scripture.

BEFORE Jesus was MADE Lord (Acts 2:36) and BEFORE God put ALL things UNDER Jesus' feet (1 Cor. 15:27), God WAS Lord of Lords. Thus, today and until judgment day, Jesus is the "Lord of Lords."

AFTER God has put ALL things UNDER his feet, the Son himself will be SUBJECT to God (1 Cor. 15:28) and God will again be the "Lord of Lords."

What they do is train people to hear the voice of their own shepherd instead of the true shepherd.

Whose VOICE is John 8:40? Whose VOICE is John 17:3? Whose VOICE is John 10:30? Do you HEAR Jesus saying "he and the Father are God" in John 10:30 or are you HEARING the VOICE of FALSE teachers like the LRM?

It is common for authoritarian groups to undermine anything that might threaten their position as the ultimate source of truth in the, life of the member.

A member of the Iglesia Ni Cristo is FREE to DISASSOCIATE himself from the Iglesia Ni Cristo if he feels that what is being TAUGHT him is NOT from the word of God.  But it is the Iglesia Ni Cristo's SWORN duty to God to EDIFY the members in the FAITH by FEEDING them spiritual TRUTHS. And this INCLUDES sharing with the brethren the TRUTH about FALSE religions and doctrines. 

The INC organization teaches that Jesus is not the true God, nor is He God in bodily form. This does not make them different from other religions. Instead they become just one of the many religions to hold the view of denying the Deity of Jesus Christ.

The belief that Jesus is God is NOT what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that Jesus is a MAN (John 8:30) and the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). Anyone who teaches otherwise is NOT of the Spirit of God.

"Revelation 12:9 reveals that Satan is the deceiver of the whole world. The belief that Jesus is God is worldwide. Coincidence?" (PASUGO, September/October 1979, p. 26)

The INC organization here implies that it is Satan that is deceiving the world into believing that Jesus is God. We have shown you facts that most of the world believes that Jesus is not the true God. What facts do the INC organization have to prove that the belief that Jesus is God in bodily form has been spread worldwide by Satan? In Satan's attempt to discredit Jesus he always gives Him less honor than He deserves, not.

Including non-Christian religions among those which do NOT believe that Jesus is God does NOT hide the FACT that the belief thAT Jesus is God DOMINATES the whole Bible-believing religious community. sATAN has indeed DECEIVED whole Christian professing world that Jesus is God.

The INC misquotes Dr. Charles C. Ryrie (A.B., Haverford College; T.M., TH.D, Dallas Theological Seminary; Ph.D., University Of Edinburgh). He served as professor of Systematic Theology at Dallas Theological Seminary for many years and is best known for his work on the Ryric Study Bible. We will now read what the INC organization said to make it appear that Dr. Ryrie agreed with them.

"In the annotations of his Ryrie Study Bible he had this to say about the phrase in John 1:1 'and the Word was with God."'

"In this verse the Word (Christ) is said to be with God (that is, in communion with and yet distinct from God) (p.1599)."

"Therefore, when Dr. Ryrie says, that the Word is distinct from God he is saying the Word is not the same, but rather separate or different from God." (PASUGO, May/June 1984, p. 14 & 15)
We will now see what Dr. Ryrie really has written in the annotations of his Ryrie Study Bible (page 1599):

"In this verse the Word (Christ) is said to be with God (i.e., in communion with and yet distinct from God) and to be God (i.e., identical in essence with God)."

Isn't it TRUE that Dr. Ryrie wrote: "In this verse the Word (Christ) is said to be with God (1.e., in communion with and yet DISTINCT from God)? Isn't if TRUE that this means the Word is NOT the SAME, but rather SEPARATE or DIFFERENT from God?

The INC organization not only stopped Dr. Ryrie's quote in the middle of his statement, but they also placed a period after the word God which makes it appear that the statement stops there! This deliberate act of misquoting completely changes what Dr. Ryrie said. The INC organization claims that Dr. Ryrie says the Word (Christ) is different from God. That is not what Dr. Ryrie said! Dr. Ryrie said that in John 1:1 Christ is identical in essence with God and to be God.(Taken from the one book written on their movement The Only True church by Robert Eliff p.79-82)

The LRM is NOT being TRUTHFUL. While it is TRUE that Dr. Ryrie wrote that  "Christ is IDENTICAL in essence with God and to be God," he ALSO wrote that "the Word (Christ) is DISTINCT from God." The word "DISTINCT" is synonymous to the word "DIFFERENT." 

Both of these statements were written by Dr. Ryrie. Thus, the INC did NOT misrepesent anything. What is understood by what Dr. Ryrie wrote is that the WORD, which is DISTINCT (SEPARATE and DIFFERENT) from God is WITH God and IDENTICAL in essence with God to be God.

There are many an organization that uses dishonest methods to prove their doctrines, what does that say about the organization and its doctrines? Is the INC doctrine that Jesus is not God in bodily form is so weak that they change the words of those they quote?

As you can see in the precceeding paragraph, the INC did NOT change the MEANING of what Dr. Ryrie wrote.   

"The true church is determined and can be singled out from the false, by evaluating her doctrines... Preachers of the true church do not explain away the passages of the Bible, they merely articulate on what is written... False preachers do the contrary they obscure what the bible teaches by their own preaching .(Pasugo nov.p19 1973)

Following in the footsteps of other organized heresies, the INC organization has used Colossians 1:15 to try to prove that Jesus was a created being. In actuality, this passage clearly demonstrates that Jesus is the Creator! Let's study what they have said and then compare it to what the Bible says.

"Colossians 1:15 states very clearly, Christ is 'the firstborn of every creature,' and is therefore not the Creator."(PASUGO, January/February 1980, p. 37.)

'Apostle Paul clearly taught that our Lord Jesus Christ is man. He is different from God. He is not God, neither is He God-Man. Rather, He is a man mediating between God and men."(GOD'S MESSAGE / July - September 1994)

"The scriptures do not teach that Christ is the creator of all things." (PASUGO, March/April 1982, p. 26.)

Really! Col.1:15 certainly does as well as Jn.1:3 and many other passages. The real problem is that they do not read their bibles unless they are inside the Church or a study with an instructor

People at LRM read their Bible but as God says, they are "always learning but NEVER able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim. 3:7).

How can apostle Paul IMPLY in Col. 1:16 that Jesus is the CREATOR when he wrote the Corinthians that the ONLY God is the FATHER who is the CREATOR of ALL things (1 Cor. 8:6 TEV)?

Ed
 
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fieldsofwind

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Posted by ed: BEFORE Jesus was MADE Lord (Acts 2:36) and BEFORE God put ALL things UNDER Jesus' feet (1 Cor. 15:27), God WAS Lord of Lords. Thus, today and until judgment day, Jesus is the "Lord of Lords."

God says: Isaiah 42:8....... I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.

no ed... when God made Himself a man... it was His love.... Jesus Christ... and he then subjected himself to endure mans punishment, and subservience. This was His sacrifice, that He became our sins... God the Father can not be in the presence of sin, much less become it. Therefore, out of His uncomprehendible love... He made Himself nothing. And the Son of Man Jesus Christ, who being in very nature God, who made Himself nothing became subject to God the Father... and at the end when all things were finished, was taken again into glory and given the title KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS... ALL CAPS ED. This is the title reserved for the LORD HIMSELF... WHO WILL NOT GIVE HIS GLORY TO ANOTHER... IT IS THE TITLE OF MY LORD CHRIST WHO IS RISEN FROM THE GRAVE HAVING DEFEATED DEATH... AND THE KEYS OF DEATH AND HADES RESIDE IN HIS HANDS! And after it is all over... Christ will subject Himself to the Father thus the Father becomes all in all. Christ is God... who made>HIMSELF<a man... and who was then again glorified by Him from whom He came

I believe
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by ocean
edpobre,

Youre posts are nothing more than mindless rants and personal attacks. I don't know whether you are a Christian or not but you are not being Christ-like. You are trying to FORCE other people to believe exactly as you do, and you are doing it in a very rude and disrespectful manner. It's people like you that drive people away from Christianity.

You are FALSELY accusing me of being mindless, rude and disrespectful. In what way am I mindless, rude and disrespectful? Why do you say I force people to believe exactly as I do? Have I forced you to believe like I do in any way, shape or form?

If you were driven away from "Christianity," don't blame it on me.&nbsp;FYI, you have NEVER been a Christian in the true Biblical sense of the word!

Ed


&nbsp;
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by fieldsofwind
Posted by ed: BEFORE Jesus was MADE Lord (Acts 2:36) and BEFORE God put ALL things UNDER Jesus' feet (1 Cor. 15:27), God WAS Lord of Lords. Thus, today and until judgment day, Jesus is the "Lord of Lords."

God says: Isaiah 42:8....... I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.

no ed... when God made Himself a man... it was His love.... Jesus Christ... and he then subjected himself to endure mans punishment, and subservience. This was His sacrifice, that He became our sins... God the Father can not be in the presence of sin, much less become it. Therefore, out of His uncomprehendible love... He made Himself nothing. And the Son of Man Jesus Christ, who being in very nature God, who made Himself nothing became subject to God the Father...

Excuse me but I can't understand what you are saying. Let us make this clear. Who are you referring to as God in Isaiah 42:8? Is it God the Father or the Son?

Are you saying that it was God the Father who BECAME the MAN, Jesus Christ? Are you saying that God the Father BECAME God the Son?

Ed
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by Annabel Lee
The Gospel According to Ed.
I think you just proved Ocean's point.

Annabel Lee,

Which&nbsp;of Ocean's point is proven? Was it mindless, rude, disrespectful to say that he had NEVER been a Christian in the true Biblical sense of the word?

Why would you consider this mindless, rude and disrespectful? Isn't it more mindless, rude and disrespectful to say "Gospel according to Ed" when you know that what you are saying is NOT true?

Ed


&nbsp;

&nbsp;
 
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Annabel Lee

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Yes Ed..It was mindless, rude and disrespectful to accuse him of never being a true Christian. Only God knows that. And only God knows what path he will take in the future. Not EdPobre.
And would you cut out the bold font for a while? It's very annoying.
 
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fieldsofwind

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no ed... when God made Himself a man... it was His love.... Jesus Christ... and he then subjected himself to endure mans punishment, and subservience. This was His sacrifice, that He became our sins... God the Father can not be in the presence of sin, much less become it. Therefore, out of His uncomprehendible love... He made Himself nothing. He came to us and His name is Jesus Christ-Emmanuel-God with us: Yes... God can do that, even becoming something on earth, while at the same time being God the Father in Heaven. Yes... God can do any number of "evens" that one could fathom asking.

Christ, who being in very nature God, who made Himself nothing became subject to God the Father... and at the end when all things were finished, was taken again into glory and given the title KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS... ALL CAPS ED. This is the title reserved for the LORD HIMSELF... WHO WILL NOT GIVE HIS GLORY TO ANOTHER... IT IS THE TITLE OF MY LORD CHRIST WHO IS RISEN FROM THE GRAVE HAVING DEFEATED DEATH... AND THE KEYS OF DEATH AND HADES RESIDE IN HIS HANDS! And after it is all over... Christ will subject Himself to the Father thus the Father becomes all in all. Christ is God... who made>HIMSELF<a man... and who was then again glorified by Him from whom He came

I believe
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by Annabel Lee
Yes Ed..It was mindless, rude and disrespectful to accuse him of never being a true Christian. Only God knows that. And only God knows what path he will take in the future. Not EdPobre.
And would you cut out the bold font for a while? It's very annoying.

Annabel Lee,

People have been acccusing me of being a cult. I have been CONFINED to this Discussion &amp; Debate Forum because I have been told that I am NOT a Christian. Have you heard me complain?

While it is true that I don't know what path he will take in the future, I can say right NOW that he is NOT a Christian BASED on what the Bible teaches as much as I have been dubbed a non-Christian based on my DISREGARD for the Nicene Creed.

With regards to my bold fonts, sure, I'll cut it out right now, if it makes you happy.

Ed
 
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Gunny

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Originally posted by edpobre

People have been acccusing me of being a cult.

I believe the reasoning individuals are calling into question if you are a member of a cult is that your profile states that you are a member of Iglesia ni Christo.

I encourage every Christian to research Iglesia ni Cristo, its founder and its doctrine.

The facts concerning Iglesia ni Christo are self evident regarding the issue if this religion is a cult.
 
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Annabel Lee

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On other Christian Boards I've been accused of being in a Cult. I've been called a Mary Worshipper and a practicer of Idolotry.
I've been told that my Church was the Whore of Babylon and Pope John Paul II was the Anti-Christ.
So..having been on the receiving end of this hate mongering I will NEVER tell someone who proclaims he is a Christian that he is not.
 
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Gunny

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Originally posted by Annabel Lee

So..having been on the receiving end of this hate mongering I will NEVER tell someone who proclaims he is a Christian that he is not.

Originally posted by Annabel Lee
Gunny..When I read that..I just had an image of you about to throw a match onto the stake and yelling, "Burn Witch! Burn!!" ;)


Sort of like telling someone they had a vision of them burning a person at a stake(after striking the match) because one utilized the word, witch.

So-called hate mongering comes in all different forms.
 
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