Why did Jesus say to the Father: YOU, the ONLY true God!

[edpobre]

Friends,

Here's a question I asked LouisBooth and his corresponding reply:

If you are that good Louis, please tell us why Jesus SAID to the FATHER: "...that they may know YOU, the ONLY true God..." (John 17:3,1). "

Because He is the ONLY true God, Just like water is the only TRUE h20 and so is ice as well as steam.

Do you agree or disagree?

I say that ice and steam are NOT true water. WATER as everyone knows is two parts hydrogen-one part oxygen in LIQUID form. ICE is two parts hydrogen-one part oxygen in SOLID form. And STEAM is two parts hydrogen-one part oxygen in VAPOR form.

Who says that God is COMPARED to two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen that can come in THREE forms? God is INCOMPARABLE.

"For my thoughts are NOT your thoughts, NEITHER are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are HIGHER than the earth, so are my ways HIGHER than your ways, and MY thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

I say that Jesus SAID to the FATHER that he is the ONLY true God, because the FATHER is the POTTER and the CREATOR of ALL things (Isaiah 64:8; Malachi 2:10). There is NO other CREATOR other than the FATHER.

Jesus is a MAN, a CREATED being (Gen. 1:27). Jesus proceeded forth and CAME from the FATHER (John 8:42). God the FATHER was the one who SENT Jesus into the world (John 3:16). Jesus can do NOTHING of himself (John 5:19). The FATHER is GREATER than Jesus (John 14:28) and GREATER than ALL (John 10:29).

LouisBooth's analogy of the ONLY true God COMES from a CARNAL mind. It is NOT of God.

Ed

 

 

[Gunny]

Iglesia ni Christo's Unbiblical Beliefs

1. Vehemently oppose the Biblical revelation of the Triune God.

2. Believes in the absolute oneness of God the Creator in the Person of the Father.

3. Believes the Son as the literal Word (which has no pre-existence) who became man. He was given power by the Father to do supernatural miracles. He is not God.

4. Believes in an impersonal Holy Spirit, a power sent by the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is not God but one of the spirits sent by God.

5. Believes the Father (Creator) and Son (creature) must be worshipped. The Son must be worshipped because the Father says so.

6. Believes a person must hear the "gospel" from authorized INC messengers and INC ministers. They are the only ones who have God's Holy Spirit in order for them to understand the Bible.

7. Believes the official name of the church is "Iglesia ni Cristo" while other names are not.

8. Believes a person must be a member of the Iglesia ni Cristo (INC), be water baptized, follow the church rules (must avoid the eating of "dinuguan," avoid joining labor unions, avoid court sessions, do block voting, be under compulsory church attendance, practice giving to the church) and perform his good deeds as an INC member in order for him to be saved.

9. Believes Felix Y. Manalo is the fulfillment of Isaiah 43:5-7; 46:11, and Rev. 7:2-3 prophecies.

10. They also believe in "soul sleep," a belief that at death, the souls dies. There is no consciousness. (A belief of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church - Ellen G. White).

Berean Ministries

 

[Soul_Searcher]

Ed, still trying to prove your point huh? What about man? We are body, mind and spirit. Why can't God be the same? You insist on limiting God, and insisting that you're right so everyone else will be wrong so you can try to feel good about your church affilitation.

First, it makes no difference because Jesus said nothing about the Trinity; second because Jesus told us what to do and how to do it; third, we have the Gospels (and the NT) and people can read for themselves--we don't need any more 'messengers' telling us what to think.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Dude, its just an analogy to try and explain something that is unexplainable.

Jesus said that because He is God and man at the same time. Thats why its called a "Mystery," heh.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Iglesia ni Christo is clearly not Christian, as defined in this site's statement of faith. Further, ed breaks rule number six:

6) Some forums on this website are provided for Christian discussion only as indicated in the Category Title. To exclude certain cults and sects that may consider themselves "Christian", the definition of a "Christian" for the purposes of these forums will be according to the contents of the Nicene Creed which summarizes the main doctrines of Evangelical Protestant & Catholic Christianity as listed below:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy [universal] and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[Gunny]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Iglesia ni Christo is clearly not Christian, as defined in this site's statement of faith.

Amen, Souljar.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by gunnysgt
Amen, Souljar.

Hey man, don't try and make me a marine Soldier for Jah! Keep your jar-head comments to yourself.

 

[Gunny]

What Do they Teach

Denying the deity of Christ

They teach Christ is only a man which had authority given to him using such scriptures Jn.8:40 and the numerous places Christ calls himself a man. Lk.24:36 where Jesus said to the mistaken disciples see a Spirit does not have flesh and bones so he is not a Spirit. He was correcting their wrong belief which proves he was not God (Also Hosea 11:9)

What they ignore is the context why they though the was a ghost, he just appeared in the room which no man can do. They argue against what we don’t believe. We do believe he was true man but he also was true God. Their argument is not with the church per se but the bible itself. Phil. 2 :5-11 solves all that challenges of his being subordinate. If one wants to look to Christ not being in this subordinate position the 2nd coming should be clear enough in Rev.17:14 "These shall make war with the Lamb and the Lamb shall overcome them; for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings."

Deut.10:17 tells us that Yahweh is the LORD OF LORDS. Only if Christ IS Yahweh and the Father IS Yahweh do we have any consistency in scripture.

Undermining The Bibles authority and replacing it with mans

The INC organization constantly claims that the Bible is the sole source of their doctrines but they subtly undermine the Bible's reliability and ultimate authority. This is a common practice of organized heresies.

"...some of the verses of the Bible were wrongly translated." PASUGO, February 1973, p. 16.

"No, it is beyond man's power and intelligence to study and understand the truth, which is God's word (John 17:17), by himself, without the guidance of God's messenger." (PASUGO, November 1973, p., 19, 20.)

What they do is train people to hear the voice of their own shepherd instead of the true shepherd.

"A doctrine is not of God if it is different from what is written in the Holy Scriptures, or even if found written but is not the present truth it becomes vain before God if used as the basis for worshipping God." ( PASUGO, Jan. 1976, p. 12.)

It is common for authoritarian groups to undermine anything that might threaten their position as the ultimate source of truth in the, life of the member.

The INC organization teaches that Jesus is not the true God, nor is He God in bodily form. This does not make them different from other religions. Instead they become just one of the many religions to hold the view of denying the Deity of Jesus Christ.

"Revelation 12:9 reveals that Satan is the deceiver of the whole world. The belief that Jesus is God is worldwide. Coincidence?" (PASUGO, September/October 1979, p. 26)

The INC organization here implies that it is Satan that is deceiving the world into believing that Jesus is God. We have shown you facts that most of the world believes that Jesus is not the true God. What facts do the INC organization have to prove that the belief that Jesus is God in bodily form has been spread worldwide by Satan? In Satan's attempt to discredit Jesus he always gives Him less honor than He deserves, not.

The INC misquotes Dr. Charles C. Ryrie (A.B., Haverford College; T.M., TH.D, Dallas Theological Seminary; Ph.D., University Of Edinburgh). He served as professor of Systematic Theology at Dallas Theological Seminary for many years and is best known for his work on the Ryric Study Bible. We will now read what the INC organization said to make it appear that Dr. Ryrie agreed with them.

"In the annotations of his Ryrie Study Bible he had this to say about the phrase in John 1:1 'and the Word was with God."'

"In this verse the Word (Christ) is said to be with God (that is, in communion with and yet distinct from God) (p.1599)."

"Therefore, when Dr. Ryrie says, that the Word is distinct from God he is saying the Word is not the same, but rather separate or different from God." (PASUGO, May/June 1984, p. 14 & 15)

We will now see what Dr. Ryrie really has written in the annotations of his Ryrie Study Bible (page 1599):

"In this verse the Word (Christ) is said to be with God (i.e., in communion with and yet distinct from God) and to be God (i.e., identical in essence with God)."

The INC organization not only stopped Dr. Ryrie's quote in the middle of his statement, but they also placed a period after the word God which makes it appear that the statement stops there! This deliberate act of misquoting completely changes what Dr. Ryrie said. The INC organization claims that Dr. Ryrie says the Word (Christ) is different from God. That is not what Dr. Ryrie said! Dr. Ryrie said that in John 1:1 Christ is identical in essence with God and to be God.(Taken from the one book written on their movement The Only True church by Robert Eliff p.79-82)

There are many an organization that uses dishonest methods to prove their doctrines, what does that say about the organization and its doctrines? Is the INC doctrine that Jesus is not God in bodily form is so weak that they change the words of those they quote? In the same manner as the JW's they vainly attempt to explain away passages of the Bible that clearly teach that Jesus is in fact God in a human body. It’s easy to convince their own members when no one will look further than their own publication. Since their members do not read the Bible on their own, nor are they encouraged to pursue their own studies.e

"The true church is determined and can be singled out from the false, by evaluating her doctrines... Preachers of the true church do not explain away the passages of the Bible, they merely articulate on what is written... False preachers do the contrary they obscure what the bible teaches by their own preaching .(Pasugo nov.p19 1973)

Following in the footsteps of other organized heresies, the INC organization has used Colossians 1:15 to try to prove that Jesus was a created being. In actuality, this passage clearly demonstrates that Jesus is the Creator! Let's study what they have said and then compare it to what the Bible says.

"Colossians 1:15 states very clearly, Christ is 'the firstborn of every creature,' and is therefore not the Creator."(PASUGO, January/February 1980, p. 37.)

'Apostle Paul clearly taught that our Lord Jesus Christ is man. He is different from God. He is not God, neither is He God-Man. Rather, He is a man mediating between God and men."(GOD'S MESSAGE / July - September 1994)

"The scriptures do not teach that Christ is the creator of all things." (PASUGO, March/April 1982, p. 26.)

Really! Col.1:15 certainly does as well as Jn.1:3 and many other passages. The real problem is that they do not read their bibles unless they are inside the Church or a study with an instructor



John 1:2-3: " He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through through Him, and without Him nothing was made without Him nothing was made that was made." This does not exclude e Father and the Spirit. Just as it says in Gen.1, in the beginning God created, therefore if Christ created then Christ is God. How they avoid this is hard to understand, yet avoid it they do. Like the many other anti-deity cults they must jump through numerous hoops to prove this is not true

Col. 1:16-19: " For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,' the fullness of what? Col.2:9 says of deity." What makes God -God was pleasantly and completely in Christ. Cont'd

Let Us Reason Ministries

 

[Gunny]

What Do they Teach Cont'd

Denying the deity of Christ


Savior

They agree that mans basic problem is sin and they agree that Christ's death is the only solution to the problem. but they teach the only way to appropriate the benefits of Christ's death is through the Church and its messenger, so they are indirectly denying salvation is by Christ's atonement on the cross obtained through repentance and faith.

Isa.19:20: "And he shall send them a Savior." We find in Isa. 63:8 it states of God "so he became their Savior." When we come to the New Testament we find who that Savior is.

Lk.2:11: "For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior who is Christ the Lord." Notice he says the Savior is born, God who is savior, meaning the Son of God came in the flesh. Emmanuel God with us. Titus 2:13 Jesus is called our great God and savior. (Titus 3:6; 2 Tim.1:10) "The Lord Jesus Christ our Savior." 1 Tim.4:10, 2 Pt.1:1 "Of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. "In the OT it is clear that God alone is Savoir.( Isa.41:3,11; 45:15, 49:26, Hos.13:4) their is no contradiction in the Scripture.

Passages such as Jn.17:3 That "this is eternal life that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." They claim the only true God is the father, not Christ. Despite the controversy over the only true God and Jesus being equal, there are other passages that clarify this. The same John also wrote 1 Jn.5:20: "And we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ this is the true God and eternal life." There is no father mentioned in this passage. If the Son is the true God then doesn’t that make him eternal, possessing eternal life as his personal nature? Of course it does, this is the clear teaching of scripture but this can’t be seen if one does not read the scripture. as they receive instruction only from their services, messengers and magazine. It works for the JW’s and it does for Iglesia.

Scriptures they camp on are Jn.10:29 and my father is Greater than all Jn.14:28, Showing that Christ cannot be God.

In Jn.13:16 it states "A servant is not greater than their master." If taken as they teach and one would use their own mind instead of what they were trained in, the flaw becomes evident. Since Jesus is less than the Father in nature this would mean the disciples are less in nature than Jesus who is to them only a man. But this verse is speaking of position not nature. This is found by the meaning of the word greater and in the Greek and in the logical context in those passage and the overall teaching of scripture. They then go to Jn.5:37 the father sent Jesus to prove he can’t be God if he is sent. Jn.20:21-22: "As the Father sent me, I also send you. Again if this were a statement of nature then when Jesus sends out the disciples who are different than himself they would be less in nature than him being not human. Once again all one has to do is show where Jesus was sent from (heaven) to solve this dilemma. Did Jesus as a man preexist in heaven, not likely that anyone would concede to this interpretation.

Jn.7:29: " I am from Him and He has sent me." John 16:16,17,:28 states, "I came forth from the Father and have come into the world, again I leave the world and go to the Father. "The Fathers location is in heaven.

John 6:38 Jesus states, "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of HIM WHO SENT ME."

Jn.6:33 "For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."

John 6:62: "What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? Jn. 8:23 "You are from beneath, I am from above, you are of this world, I am not of this world."Jn3:31 "He who comes from above is above all... 1 Cor.15:47: "the first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second man is the Lord from heaven. Here again is showing the origin of the Son coming from above. Who does Iglesia think came from heaven? For this they simply avoid an answer and go back to their stance Jesus is a man (only).

They consistently set up simple straw man arguments and knock them down with ease. They bring attention to the hard passages that take more time to explain and immediately dismiss them as they insert their meaning as plain and clear. Their teaching is basically to counter all of Christianity

Eph.4:6: "One Father in you all? Do they believe God is in someone? No.

Jer.23:6 calls a man the Lord our righteousness = In the NT we find Christ is our righteousness

Resurrection

Since God cannot die Jesus died therefore he is not God. But while we use the phrase God died what we mean is Christ the man did. God cannot die but gave up the body he lived in. They also claim who raised him Acts.2:32 God did Rom.6 the father did neglecting what Jesus said of himself Jn.2:19: "Destroy this temple and I will raise it up." v. 21 he was speaking of the temple of his body

Jn.10:17-18: "Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." It is inconsequential whether he received the instruction from the Father. He is involved in raising up himself in body, so for one to do this they must still be living as Spirit to accomplish this.

What of the clear statements that Christ said he is Lord of the Sabbath. Meaning he is the creator who rested on the 7th day. Why is it so crucial to know him and he to know us in Mt.7:21, does God want us to have a relationship with only a man or himself. Would God tell us to pray in a mans name or even a prophets no matter how great they were. Of course not, we invoke the name above all names in prayer, how could that be only a mans. Yes he is a man, but not only a man as he is deity as proven in the transfiguration.

Afterlife

They borrowed soul sleep from the 7th day Adventists where a person has no consciousness after death. This is directly traced to their influence Manalo had when he was trained. Not even in the early church did the false teachers came up with this one.

While they do teach the 2nd coming of Christ they do not teach any millennial reign on earth. It is these areas that there is little information on since no one leaves to tell about it except a few.

Let Us Reason Ministries

 

[Gunny]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Hey man, don't try and make me a marine Soldier for Jah! Keep your jar-head comments to yourself.

LOL

 

[wblastyn]

Alot of the arguements you put forward seem to suggest you don't understand what the trinity is, no one can fully understand God, when we do He will stop being God.

You don't like the trinity because it's illogical, yet we see trinities everywhere - Shamrocks are 3 separate leaves, which make one leaf, man is spirit, body and mind, God is spirit, body and mind, separate yet One.

Stop trying to understand the infinite God with your finite mind and just accept that God is triune.

You simply ignore the Bible verses with Jesus being God and state Bible verses claiming God the father is the only true God, which we already know, that is what the trinity is, God the father is God, God the Son is God and God the Holy Spirit is God. Three are One, they are not 3 gods, but all three are GOD, it may seem illogical, but God is not bound by man's finite knowledge of maths or logic.

Stop trying to put God in a box, once you do that He is no longer God.

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by gunnysgt
Iglesia ni Christo's Unbiblical Beliefs

1. Vehemently oppose the Biblical revelation of the Triune God.

2. Believes in the absolute oneness of God the Creator in the Person of the Father.

3. Believes the Son as the literal Word (which has no pre-existence) who became man. He was given power by the Father to do supernatural miracles. He is not God.

4. Believes in an impersonal Holy Spirit, a power sent by the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is not God but one of the spirits sent by God.

5. Believes the Father (Creator) and Son (creature) must be worshipped. The Son must be worshipped because the Father says so.

6. Believes a person must hear the "gospel" from authorized INC messengers and INC ministers. They are the only ones who have God's Holy Spirit in order for them to understand the Bible.

7. Believes the official name of the church is "Iglesia ni Cristo" while other names are not.

8. Believes a person must be a member of the Iglesia ni Cristo (INC), be water baptized, follow the church rules (must avoid the eating of "dinuguan," avoid joining labor unions, avoid court sessions, do block voting, be under compulsory church attendance, practice giving to the church) and perform his good deeds as an INC member in order for him to be saved.

9. Believes Felix Y. Manalo is the fulfillment of Isaiah 43:5-7; 46:11, and Rev. 7:2-3 prophecies.

10. They also believe in "soul sleep," a belief that at death, the souls dies. There is no consciousness. (A belief of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church - Ellen G. White).

Berean Ministries

gunnysgt,

Thanks for posting this. I couldn't have done it better. Any form of advertisement is better than nothing at all.

Anyone who OPPOSES these beliefs are welcomed to post their views. I will strive to answer them with SCRIPTURES, if I can.

Ed

 

[wildernesse]

I keep seeing the title of this thread (shortened for the "latest post" box) as "Why did Jesus say to the Fat" and thinking it's some kind of joke like:

Why did Jesus say to the Fat man, yada yada yada.

I kept wondering when Jesus ever talked to fat people in the Bible and then I find that it's not fat man, it's fat-her. How disappointing! haha.

--tibac

 

[wblastyn]

Here are some quotes from early church "fathers", some who knew the Apostles personally.

Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle. "O Lord God almighty...I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr. "For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).

Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity. "In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988). "We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passible body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)

Irenaeus (115-190). As a boy he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons. "The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: ...one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,' and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all...'" (Against Heresies X.l)

Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity. "We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation...[which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).

Origen (185-254). Alexandrian theologian. A disciple of Origen. Defended Christianity. He wrote much about Christianity. "If anyone would say that the Word of God or the Wisdom of God had a beginning, let him beware lest he direct his impiety rather against the unbegotten Father, since he denies that he was always Father, and that he has always begotten the Word, and that he always had wisdom in all previous times or ages or whatever can be imagined in priority...There can be no more ancient title of almighty God than that of Father, and it is through the Son that he is Father" (De Princ. 1.2.; PG 11.132). "For if [the Holy Spirit were not eternally as He is, and had received knowledge at some time and then became the Holy Spirit] this were the case, the Holy Spirit would never be reckoned in the unity of the Trinity, i.e., along with the unchangeable Father and His Son, unless He had always been the Holy Spirit." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 4, p. 253, de Principiis, 1.111.4) "Moreover, nothing in the Trinity can be called greater or less, since the fountain of divinity alone contains all things by His word and reason, and by the Spirit of His mouth sanctifies all things which are worthy of sanctification..." (Roberts and Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 4, p. 255, de Principii., I. iii. 7).

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by wblastyn

Alot of the arguements you put forward seem to suggest you don't understand what the trinity is, no one can fully understand God, when we do He will stop being God.

From whom did you learn this wblastyn? If this is from the word of God, please show me. If not, have pity on our readers. Please don't led them astray! 

You don't like the trinity because it's illogical, yet we see trinities everywhere - Shamrocks are 3 separate leaves, which make one leaf, man is spirit, body and mind, God is spirit, body and mind, separate yet One.

Why anyone should believe something ILLOGICAL is beyond my RATIONAL mind to comprehend.

The ONLY source of information that can TRUTHFULLY lead anyone to eternal life is the Bible. And the Bible is NOT an ILLOGICAL piece of literary work. It is God-inspired.

An ILLOGICAL belief such as the Trinity has NO place in a book INSPIRED by God who is NOT a God of CONFUSION.

Stop trying to understand the infinite God with your finite mind and just accept that God is triune.

No thank you wblstyn. If you want to REMAIN in an ILLOGICAL doctrine,  that's your right to do so. But it does NOT mean that I have to JUMP to my death at the "lake of fire" WITH you.

You simply ignore the Bible verses with Jesus being God and state Bible verses claiming God the father is the only true Godwhich we already know, that is what the trinity is, God the father is God, God the Son is God and God the Holy Spirit is God. Three are One, they are not 3 gods, but all three are GOD, it may seem illogical, but God is not bound by man's finite knowledge of maths or logic.

Your belief that "the FATHER being the ONLY true God" means God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit does NOT only SEEM illogical. It is INDEED illogical and one who believes in thisv ILLOGICAL doctrine is a BLIND folllower. A BLIND follower is a "cultist."

Stop trying to put God in a box, once you do that He is no longer God.

Again, from whom did you learn this STANDARD "putting God in a box" thing.  This COMES only from a CARNAL mind - NOT from God. 

Jesus SAID that everything he SAYS or SPEAKS comes from God (John 12:49-50). He SAYS he is a MAN (John 8:40). Jesus also SAYS that the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3).

You and all Trinitarians have been BRAINWASHED into BELIEVING that you are "putting God in a box" if you BELIEVE Jesus' WORDS about God and himself. Anyone who does NOT stay in the DOCTRINE of Christ does NOT have God (2 John 1:9) and is CONDEMNED already (John 3:18).

Don't be like Eve who was DECEIVE bt the craftiness of the serpent in the garden of Eden. Obey the WORD of God - NOT the word of men SPOKEN by FALSE teachers.

Ed

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Obey the WORD of God - NOT the word of men SPOKEN by FALSE teachers.

Sounds like you are worshipping the bible, that is a product of men, and is not God.

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by wblastyn
Here are some quotes from early church "fathers", some who knew the Apostles personally.

wblastyn,

These are the bishops from AMONG the Christians who TURNED AWAY from the TRUE faith and SPOKE derstructive HERESIES, even DENYING the Lord who brought them (2 Peter 2:1-3).

These are the bishops from AMONG the Christians who TURNED AWAY from the TRUE faith and SPOKE perverse things to DRAW AWAY discipes after them (Acts 20:29-30).

These are the bishops from AMONG the Christians who, EVEN during apostle Paul's time, were already preaching ANOTHER Jesus, ANOTHER Spirit and ANOTHER gospel (2 Cor. 11:3-4; Gal. 1:6-9).

Compare what Jesus and the apostles PREACHED against what these bishops wrote.

Jesus TAUGHT that he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3,1). God is SPIRIT (John 4:24).  The apostles TAUGHT that Jesus is a MAN (Acts 2:22; Acts  17:31; Rom. 5:15; 1 Tim. 2:5).  The apostles TAUGHT that the FATHER is the ONLY ONE God (1 Cor. 8:6; 2 Cor. 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3; Eph. 1:3; Col. 1:3).

CLEARLY, these bishops are the FULFILLMENT of apostle Paul's PROPHECY regarding those who TRUNED AWAY from the TRUE faith and gave HEED to DECEIVING spirits and DOCTRINES of DEMONS: FOBIDDING to marry; and COMMANDING to ABSTAIN from flesh food..." (1 Tim. 4:1-3).

Don't you SEE that these bishops or so-called "early Church Fathers" were the FULFILLMENT of these PROPHECIES?

Ed

 

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Sounds like you are worshipping the bible, that is a product of men, and is not God.

sOuljah,

Can't you see that you are being BLINDED by your pride? And it has gotten even worse. You have resorted to BLASPHEMING the Bible which is the WORD of God!

Ed

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by Soul_Searcher
Ed, still trying to prove your point huh? What about man? We are body, mind and spirit. Why can't God be the same? You insist on limiting God, and insisting that you're right so everyone else will be wrong so you can try to feel good about your church affilitation.

First, it makes no difference because Jesus said nothing about the Trinity; second because Jesus told us what to do and how to do it; third, we have the Gospels (and the NT) and people can read for themselves--we don't need any more 'messengers' telling us what to think.

Soul_Searcher,

Tell me why I should even bother to reply to your posts when you belive ONLY the  gospels and said that you don't even read apostle Paul's letters?

Do you think it is productive for me to talk to someone who does NOT believe the SAME book I read and believe in? Can any team play a football game with another team who plays with a DIFFERENT set of rules? No way my friend.

Go find someone else who believe ONLY in the 4 gospels. You'll be happier with your nonsense there.

Ed

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Iglesia ni Christo is clearly not Christian, as defined in this site's statement of faith. Further, ed breaks rule number six:

6) Some forums on this website are provided for Christian discussion only as indicated in the Category Title. To exclude certain cults and sects that may consider themselves "Christian", the definition of a "Christian" for the purposes of these forums will be according to the contents of the Nicene Creed which summarizes the main doctrines of Evangelical Protestant & Catholic Christianity as listed below:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy [universal] and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Your crying "wolf" is too late. Someone has done that a long time ago. That's why you see me ONLY in the Open Discussion and Debate forum Dude. I am NOT a pseudo-Christian, ie., one who is a Christian by OBEYING the Nicene Creed - NOT by OBEYING Christ).

Ed