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Why did Jesus say to buy a sword?

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by Jackson Cooper, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    You are right it did not make sense to me either which is why I looked up the prophecy being fulfilled to see that it refers to unjust trial and...

    Thus if Jesus were play acting in that text, it would not be a fulfilled prophecy at all.
     
  2. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    Yes, familiar, but ch 23, v14 is suggestive. No matter perhaps if you read that claimed "rebellion" as being without arms, unlike me (i think the 2 swords are to help support the accusation). Not crucial. Isnt it interesting how Pilate says He isn't guilty. I've always noted that as really an important part of the situation. He was a threat to the religious powers of the day, to their status and position of power over others.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  3. buzuxi02

    buzuxi02 Veteran

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    Many of the disciples still believed they would usher in the messianic kingdom through a rebellion and an overthrow of Roman authority. No different than the zealots. Jesus was trying to tell them the installment of the kingdom is going to happen very soon. Where the disciples interpreted that its time to arm up and seize the kingdom by force for the time of armed conflict has arrived
     
  4. Jackson Cooper

    Jackson Cooper Well-Known Member

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    It seems like it is at best an option to be violent towards someone else, if not sinful.
    My father molested my sister when she was 8 years old. We certainly wouldn't of liked it if our mother had not called the police. Maybe our mother was wrong to try resisting evil.

    I don't like it, but Christianity isn't a religion for those looking to be comforted. My conscience has proven wrong quite often this past year.
     
  5. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    It is not always easy to know the answer. The surest guide is what would you want done for you, what is most loving to the person? Remembering that the ETERNAL good is more important than the right now. To hope to get away with sin and hide it might be an immediate reaction, but it's not the one that is good for our soul.
     
  6. Jackson Cooper

    Jackson Cooper Well-Known Member

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    Was Jesus only talking about resisting evil done to oneself?
    Seems odd to think that it's ok to stop someone from murdering someone else, but wrong to stop someone from murdering yourself.
     
  7. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to go into the details of this. It might cause more confusion.


    A person might be justified, even noble, for protecting innocents.

    A person might be justified to defend themselves.

    A person might also choose to sacrifice themselves rather than - say - kill their attacker - in order to give the attacker time to repent, where if you kill them they would not have that chance.

    But the Church does not say we MUST sacrifice ourselves. But if we understand the eternal significance all around, we might choose to. It could result in two souls being saved.


    If we choose to kill our attacker in self defense, he might be condemned. We could also suffer damage to our soul for resisting to the point of killing acperson, and if we suffer enough as a result, we could apostatize.

    None of this is set in stone. It is not a rule. But so often we have seen martyrs especially accept martyrdom, praying for their murderers.
     
  8. Jackson Cooper

    Jackson Cooper Well-Known Member

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    Why did Jesus say to not resist evil though? What is the context?
     
  9. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Can you give the place you are asking about? Chapter at least?
     
  10. Jackson Cooper

    Jackson Cooper Well-Known Member

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    I think it's the verse right before Jesus says to turn the other cheek. Matthew 5:39.
     
  11. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    If you read the whole section, it's about being truly Christlike rather than acting like everyone who is without God. It means that we should be different.

    It's not really talking about defending inncoents from being murdered.

    But rather when someone insults you, steals something from you, asks you to help when you don't want to, and so on. Rather than exacting "equal" vengeance ... insulting them back, suing them when they owe you anything, etc ... if we act like Christ we will bear the insult, we will give the thief something extra in generosity (perhaps he has need, so we fill it, or perhaps we shame him by our generosity), we cheerfully help and then go above that and do even more for them.

    By such things, people will realize we are not like everyone else. By our love through actions, they will recognize we have something worth having, and might be drawn to the Gospel.

    I think I commented earlier in this thread - love is always a good guide.



    The case of protecting innocents from being harmed ... what is loving? It will very likely be in that case that it is loving to protect the innocents, to resist the one who would hurt them in whatever appropriate ways. If someone is abusing children, it is loving to both the child and the abuser to bring it to the authorities and so protect the child and prevent the abuser from continuing freely. This is where it CAN get confusing. If you put yourself in the abuser's place, you might see that they don't want to be arrested. But in fact, that might be the best thing for them. If you let them continue to harm children, they only bring more condemnation upon themselves and further darken their souls.



    People like to present little puzzles or problems that seem to make the guidelines wrong. And the truth is, as we learn more and understand better how circumstances affect our souls, we are better able to answer these questions.

    In the end, the answer is love. And the goal of love is the best eternal good for each person.
     
  12. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    First you need to understand Koine Greek. The word is dagger not sword and if you ever traveled in the wild at that time you might encounter dangerous animals, ut the main reason was to be able to prepare a meal of lamb.
     
  13. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    First you need to understand Koine Greek. The word is dagger not sword and if you ever traveled in the wild at that time you might encounter dangerous animals, but the main reason was to be able to prepare a meal of lamb.
     
  14. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    47And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people. 48Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast. 49And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him. 50And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.


    51And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. 52Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. 53Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?


    55In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me. 56But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.


    In context, they are talking swords here...sharp ones. :)
     
  15. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    it's always both/and in Orthodoxy. plus, it was a different verse (although you are right about the Temple guards).
     
  16. icxn

    icxn Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα

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    I know this is an old thread, but I came across the following quote from St. Maximos the Confessor and I thought to share:

    Whoever possesses spiritual knowledge must always possess as well a rich store of virtue gained through his conduct. Scripture says, ‘He who has a purse,’ that is, spiritual knowledge, ‘let him take it, and his knapsack as well’ (Luke 22:36), that is, affluence of virtue with which he nourishes his soul. He who does not have a purse and therefore neither a knapsack, that is, knowledge and virtue, ‘let him sell his garment and buy a sword’ (ibid.). By this Scripture means: let him give his own flesh willingly to labors in pursuit of virtue, and for the sake of the peace of God let him wage war against passions and demons, wisely using the word of God (this is the sword) to discriminate between good and evil.

    St Maximos the Confessor, Two Hundred Texts on Theology
     
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  17. Hermit76

    Hermit76 You can call me Paisios Supporter

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    I had a similar thought.
     
  18. Lukaris

    Lukaris Orthodox Christian Supporter

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    I believe the preaching of St Maximos ( above) best explains this although I also believe that there is a provision for legitimate authorities and last resort self defense ( Ecclesiastes 3 , Romans 13:1-7 ).
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  19. Jackson Cooper

    Jackson Cooper Well-Known Member

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    So we aren't supposed to buy large knives or AR-15s?
     
  20. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    you can.
     
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