Why did Jesus die for us?

[quietbloke]

How does that Work? God died to pay a price to himself?

It has been explained to you if you look back. I'm moving on

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

It has been explained to you if you look back. I'm moving on

Not really. But that is ok.
Please understand that I am not contesting the veracity.
I am asking how it works.

In the context of Israel,the death of Jesus was a recapitalization of Passover, the primary feast of liberation for the Jews. The Gospels tell us that Jesus saw it as an opportunity to establish a new covenant.

I just don't think that penal substitution adequately accounts for the crucifixion. I think there is deep mystery here as well that involves us taking up our own crosses and following.

 

[createdtoworship]

Not really. But that is ok.
Please understand that I am not contesting the veracity.
I am asking how it works.

In the context of Israel,the death of Jesus was a recapitalization of Passover, the primary feast of liberation for the Jews. The Gospels tell us that Jesus saw it as an opportunity to establish a new covenant.

I just don't think that penal substitution adequately accounts for the crucifixion. I think there is deep mystery here as well that involves us taking up our own crosses and following.

Read the gospel of John. Just take a few minutes out of your day, ask God to reveal to you the Gospel while reading that book of the Bible. You can't go wrong, putting down all your commentaries and just picking up God's word to see for yourself what is said. If more seminaries did this, they would not be in the trouble they get into.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Jesus died to ratify a New Covenant. His blood and death validated that covenant.
Hebrews 9
16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.




Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Luke 22:20
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

2 Corinthians 3:6
5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 8:6
But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

Hebrews is key to understanding this new Covenant.

.

 

[Jonaitis]

The only thing nailed to the cross was Jesus. No ordinances.

Ding ding! You have just affirmed penal atonement without realizing it.

He nailed the ordinances that was against us to the cross, yet it was Jesus who was nailed to the cross. This means that Jesus was that which was counted as "sin" and so punished. You take it as a metaphor because it goes against your own theology.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Ding ding! You have just affirmed penal atonement without realizing it.

He nailed the ordinances that was against us to the cross, yet it was Jesus who was nailed to the cross. This means that Jesus was that which was counted as "sin" and so punished. You take it as a metaphor because it goes against your own theology.

My own theology? What do you know of my theology? Even I do not know my theology. It is still growing, developing and evolving even after 64 years. Faith seeking understanding is what it is. And that allows some questioning and challenging. I understand many are not comfortable with that.

In this case, I think New Covenant, adds a great deal more to the death of Jesus than Penal Substitution alone.

 

[createdtoworship]

My own theology? What do you know of my theology? Even I do not know my theology. It is still growing, developing and evolving even after 64 years. Faith seeking understanding is what it is. And that allows some questioning and challenging. I understand many are not comfortable with that.

In this case, I think New Covenant, adds a great deal more to the death of Jesus than Penal Substitution alone.

I used to know all the various views of the atonement, but seminary talk now days is just cemetary talk. Recently I have just been focussing on following the Lord with all of my heart, repenting of sins of thought and deed, praying, reading the word and stoking my faith in Jesus. Seminary talk sometimes kindles the fire of faith. I know that focussing on all the various view of christianity is what a christian forum does, however what would happen if we simply just shared how God's word has blessed us, how thankful we are for a free salvation, and how much Jesus's love has changed us?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I used to know all the various views of the atonement, but seminary talk now days is just cemetary talk. Recently I have just been focussing on following the Lord with all of my heart, repenting of sins of thought and deed, praying, reading the word and stoking my faith in Jesus. Seminary talk sometimes kindles the fire of faith. I know that focussing on all the various view of christianity is what a christian forum does, however what would happen if we simply just shared how God's word has blessed us, how thankful we are for a free salvation, and how much Jesus's love has changed us?

We can follow the Lord with all of our heart, repenting of sins of thought and deed, praying, reading the word and stoking faith in Jesus and still think about things. My faith is very different than it was when I was a young man. It has weathered many challenges from life events to influential people.

God gives us all of who we are and we are all different. We all dont have to beleive like each other on the many point of departure that have separated believers in the past. But we do all have to be true to our inner conscience, to the law written in our hearts.

 

[createdtoworship]

We can follow the Lord with all of our heart, repenting of sins of thought and deed, praying, reading the word and stoking faith in Jesus and still think about things.

when we realize that our walk with the Lord is more important than theological bias, infinitely superior in fact, it changes things. I do debate loss of salvation topics, because they have to do with soteriology, but I typically don't debate end times or other theology anymore. Just stuff that deals with people getting saved. I am not saying not to think. Just don't get caught up in it. Most of theological debates cause a doubting of the Bible. Now granted dispensationalism fixed alot of the misconceptions of the Bible, and it's founders started the first study Bible, and first systematic theology....I still don't focus on doctrine. I focus on Jesus Himself. Granted I have come from very healthy churches and have been taught very accurate doctrine to begin with, but I realize doctrinal debate as prideful and usually not uplifting. It attracts many who don't necessarily even believe in the Bible and will talk about contradictions. If you are looking for errors in the Bible you can easily find them. After much more study you will realize they are not errors and they are simply difficulties, but most do not get that far, their faith in the Bible is already shaken. I lost years of my life debating this stuff, and it mostly ends in angered dialogue. Unbelievers who venture and read these threads will solidify their unbelief, simply because of the lack of love of people from opposite theological spectrums from Christians who are supposed to love even their enemies.

If I speak with the words of Calvin and Luther, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

If I have an Mdiv, a ThM, or a Phd, and can preach with big words and know all mysteries and knowledge, but do not have love, I am nothing.

I hope that this makes sense, it's good to think but not at the sacrifice of personal faith (as I explained above which in jeopardy of many new converts), or love of others.