Why did Jesus die for us?

[Akita Suggagaki]

In the Old Testament a sacrifice had to be made with God for the atonement of sin. Only then could God and man be reconciled. In the New Testament they are used as illustrations of the perfect sacrifice that Jesus made to God for the forgiveness of our sin.It was a great transaction,God made for our salvation

But then God made it to himself. How does that atone anything?
Our sins could not be forgiven without that death?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

T"ransom theory of atonement is one of the main doctrines in Christian theology relating to the meaning and effect of the death of Jesus Christ. It originated in the early Church, particularly in the work of Origen. The theory teaches that the death of Christ was a ransom sacrifice, usually said to have been paid to Satan, in satisfaction for the bondage and debt on the souls of humanity as a result of inherited sin.[1]"

Historically not everyone has believed the offering was for the father

I think most people forget it is a theory.

 

[renniks]

I think most people forget it is a theory.

One of several.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

What an awesome,amazing,atoning sacrifice! Thankyou for your reply,'Shrewd Manager'

Amen to that. And thank you quietbloke for a great question that allows the heavens to open and the power of heaven to be made manifest.

Folks too often get too tied up in some transactional legalist accounting routine. May we pray that they don't get caught in this trap. The letter kills, only the Spirit gives life, and in abundance. The truth is dynamic and without limits!

 

[quietbloke]

But then God made it to himself. How does that atone anything?
Our sins could not be forgiven without that death?

The transaction is between us and God.'Tis done the great transactions done. I am my Lord's and He mine..!'

 

[quietbloke]

I think most people forget it is a theory.

It is not a theory. It is the Word of God. 'The Blood of the Lord' Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin'.

 

[quietbloke]

One of several.

The Word of God teaches the atonement of our sins through the sacrifice of the cross.

 

[quietbloke]

Amen to that. And thank you quietbloke for a great question that allows the heavens to open and the power of heaven to be made manifest.

Folks too often get too tied up in some transactional legalist accounting routine. May we pray that they don't get caught in this trap. The letter kills, only the Spirit gives life, and in abundance. The truth is dynamic and without limits!

Amen! We believe in the truth of God's Word!

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Jesus Christ our LORD died for us! Why?

Romans 5:12-19.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

The Word of God teaches the atonement of our sins through the sacrifice of the cross.

I don't disbelieve nor dispute. But I ask how does it work. In what way is it effective?

It seems God punishes himself for us to atone for our sin.

And yet something deeper is going on since we all can somehow be one in Christ, part of his body, and enter in to his suffering and death. But what does that really mean in practical terms in our daily life?

We all sin and always have since the beginning. It seems to me that we can only atone, only be reconciled, if we offer to Christ our daily sacrifices, in fact every moment of our lives. Live completely in him. And that requires a lot more than just faith. Faith gets us started. It also requires the great command, love one another.

I don't think Jesus cares about a lot of words or proclamations or confessions. He wants to see love in action. That is the indication of living in him, his life death, and resurrection which then become ours through solidarity and moral participation.

 

[renniks]

The Word of God teaches the atonement of our sins through the sacrifice of the cross.

No one is arguing against that. There's several theories about what exactly the atonement accomplished. One is the ultimate defeat of evil (christus victor) one is it paid Ransom to Satan or the father. Another is penal substitution...I thought this was what this thread was about? Because all have some merit.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

No one is arguing against that. There's several theories about what exactly the atonement accomplished. One is the ultimate defeat of evil (christus victor) one is it paid Ransom to Satan or the father. Another is penal substitution...I thought this was what this thread was about? Because all have some merit.

Yes, let's get below the surface of the words and phrases we are all so familiar with. The Moral Example" theory makes most sense to me.

How could evil have been defeated when it is all around us as powerful as ever?

 

[renniks]

How could evil have been defeated when it is all around us as powerful as ever?

"Classically, the Christus Victor theory of Atonement is widely considered to be the dominant theory for most of the historical Christian Church. In this theory, Jesus Christ dies in order to defeat the powers of evil (such as sin, death, and the devil) in order to free mankind from their bondage. This is related to the Ransom view with the difference being that there is no payment to the devil or to God. Within the Christus Victor framework, the cross did not pay off anyone, but defeated evil thereby setting the human race free."

I think the idea is that it assured the ultimate defeat of evil, not that evil is not still present in this world. Satan's ultimate defeat came at the cross. I don't think many theologians would dispute that, the most add another theory or two.

 

[renniks]

I think this thread is more about what do we personally feel the death and resurrection of Christ did for us... My emotional reaction to that is that Christ took upon himself my every pain, every mistake, every sin, and made them his own. He drank every drop of my brokenness, and it tore him up inside like broken glass. And in his life here experienced every bit of rejection that we ever feel, the entire gamut of human suffering, made infinitely worse by having experienced unimaginable Glory previously. He willingly became us to rescue us from ourselves. And even when we try to express it, we are left with a deep mystery that is too much for us to understand, and perhaps eternity will not be long enough to truly grasp it all.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

This thread helps also

Death must come first.

 

[createdtoworship]

I think this thread is more about what do we personally feel the death and resurrection of Christ did for us... My emotional reaction to that is that Christ took upon himself my every pain, every mistake, every sin, and made them his own. He drank every drop of my brokenness, and it tore him up inside like broken glass. And in his life here experienced every bit of rejection that we ever feel, the entire gamut of human suffering, made infinitely worse by having experienced unimaginable Glory previously. He willingly became us to rescue us from ourselves. And even when we try to express it, we are left with a deep mystery that is too much for us to understand, and perhaps eternity will not be long enough to truly grasp it all.

it should not be about feelings at all, feelings can be manipulated by a host of externals. The word of God is unchanging and goes from generation to generation.

 

[Jonaitis]

Jesus Christ our LORD died for us! Why?

So that we may be reconciled to God.

 

[quietbloke]

'You went to Calvary. There you died for me. Thank You,Lord,for loving me'

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

So that we may be reconciled to God.

How does his death reconciles us to God?

 

[renniks]

it should not be about feelings at all, feelings can be manipulated by a host of externals. The word of God is unchanging and goes from generation to generation.

I disagree. Not about the Word of God being unchanging, but that the feelings aren't important. If the incarnation does not spark deep feelings of gratitude and awe within us, we need to check ourselves for a pulse.