Why Did God Hate Esau?

[pshun2404]

When studying the Bible, it is critically important to always study the context of a particular Bible verse or passage. In these instances, the prophet Malachi and the apostle Paul are using the name “Esau” to refer to the Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau. Isaac and Rebekah had two sons, Esau and Jacob. God chose Jacob (whom He later renamed “Israel”) to be the father of His chosen people, the Israelites. God rejected Esau (who was also called “Edom”) and did not choose him to be the father of His chosen people. Esau and his descendants, the Edomites, were in many ways blessed by God (Genesis 33:9; Genesis chapter 36).

So, considering the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants. God chose Abraham out of all the men in the world. The Bible very well could say, “Abraham I loved, and every other man I hated.” God chose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael. The Bible very well could say, “Isaac I loved, and Ishmael I hated.” Romans chapter 9 makes it abundantly clear that loving Jacob and hating Esau was entirely related to which of them God chose. Hundreds of years after Jacob and Esau had died, the Israelites and Edomites became bitter enemies. The Edomites often aided Israel’s enemies in attacks on Israel. Esau’s descendants brought God’s curse upon themselves. Genesis 27:29 tells Israel, “May nations serve you and peoples bow down to you. Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed.” Finally, the words used in the early English translated as "hate" here are words that indicate a foe that one detests. The anger one feels for another who is constantly coming against them and will not cease.

Because Esau (Edom) continually and unrepentantly opposed Jacob (Israel) and God , God rejected him and his offspring.

 

[toLiJC]

I can imagine the True God as a "consuming fire" and a HATER of some people
because that is exactly what the Bible says.

does the Bible, that intrinsically inanimate piece of paper, have a mouth and speak with it?!, or rather there have been people claiming that such and such things are written in the Bible (though using expressions such as "Scripture says")?!, so there is definitely something that is written in the Bible, but it is another question whether all people that read it understand it correctly, for example, why must we be hasty to claim that God is evil?!, what if it turns out that there are two gods, a true/good One and an evil/wicked one?!, as this is kind of implied in 1 John 5:19-21:

"We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, guard yourselves from idols."

So what do we do with Scriptures that state that God HATES certain people?
Do we simply ignore those Scriptures... or do we HARMONIZE them into our doctrine?

how can the god of love hate people?!

1 John 4:7-21 "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him..... If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also."

i cannot even imagine the true God hating people, let alone causing harm/suffering to any of them

Blessings

 

[jimmyjimmy]

i cannot even imagine the true God hating people, let alone causing harm/suffering to any of them

Do you form your doctrinal positions in that manner? Do you discard the parts you don't like or have difficulty accepting? Is you imagination, as you say above, a large part of this process?

 

[toLiJC]

Do you form your doctrinal positions in that manner? Do you discard the parts you don't like or have difficulty accepting? Is you imagination, as you say above, a large part of this process?

i don't have my own spiritual/religious belief(s)/doctrine(s), nor do i neglect/ignore what is written in Scripture, nor can i afford to allow my mind/imagination to mislead me especially as to spiritual things, in this respect i just witness to facts such as they are, first of all, thanks to the true God...

Blessings

 

[RC1970]

When studying the Bible, it is critically important to always study the context of a particular Bible verse or passage. In these instances, the prophet Malachi and the apostle Paul are using the name “Esau” to refer to the Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau. Isaac and Rebekah had two sons, Esau and Jacob. God chose Jacob (whom He later renamed “Israel”) to be the father of His chosen people, the Israelites. God rejected Esau (who was also called “Edom”) and did not choose him to be the father of His chosen people. Esau and his descendants, the Edomites, were in many ways blessed by God (Genesis 33:9; Genesis chapter 36).

So, considering the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants. God chose Abraham out of all the men in the world. The Bible very well could say, “Abraham I loved, and every other man I hated.” God chose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael. The Bible very well could say, “Isaac I loved, and Ishmael I hated.” Romans chapter 9 makes it abundantly clear that loving Jacob and hating Esau was entirely related to which of them God chose. Hundreds of years after Jacob and Esau had died, the Israelites and Edomites became bitter enemies. The Edomites often aided Israel’s enemies in attacks on Israel. Esau’s descendants brought God’s curse upon themselves. Genesis 27:29 tells Israel, “May nations serve you and peoples bow down to you. Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed.” Finally, the words used in the early English translated as "hate" here are words that indicate a foe that one detests. The anger one feels for another who is constantly coming against them and will not cease.

Because Esau (Edom) continually and unrepentantly opposed Jacob (Israel) and God , God rejected him and his offspring.

Complete Dispensational nonsense. Romans 9 is dealing with election unto salvation pure and simple. You would have to be ignoring many verses here to conclude that all the Apostle is doing is referring to the history of two nations. Your explanation is special pleading at it worst.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Complete Dispensational nonsense. Romans 9 is dealing with election unto salvation pure and simple. You would have to be ignoring many verses here to conclude that all the Apostle is doing is referring to the history of two nations. Your explanation is special pleading at it worst.

Agreed. It only takes a reading of the chapter to see the context. The question Paul was addressing was the salvation of some people and not others.

Even if we say that he was discussing groups of people, groups of people aren't saved. Individuals are saved or lost. In other words, groups are made up of individuals.

 

[RisenInJesus]

Agreed. It only takes a reading of the chapter to see the context. The question Paul was addressing was the salvation of some people and not others.

Even if we say that he was discussing groups of people, groups of people aren't saved. Individuals are saved or lost. In other words, groups are made up of individuals.

I think it is pretty obvious to anyone reading Romans 9:13, in context and not through Calvinistic lens, that this is not about individual salvation, but about God's elective purpose of the nation of Israel and Israel’s national role in through history because Romans 9, 10, and 11 are all about national Israel and her role in redemptive history. Besides that, as others have pointed out Paul is directly quoting from Malachi 1:1-2. The context of Malachi clearly indicates that the word “Jacob” refers to the nation of Israel and the word “Esau” to the nation of Edom.

This is further supported in Genesis...
The Lord said to her,

“Two nations are in your womb;
And two peoples will be separated from your body;
And one people shall be stronger than the other;
And the older shall serve the younger.”


When her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb. Now the first came forth red, all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau. Afterward his brother came forth with his hand holding on to Esau’s heel, so his name was called Jacob. Genesis 25:23-26

 

[SolomonVII]

I was responding to what you wrote in post #15... which was:
Is it your contention that Esau is a child of the devil?


Therefore, I think my response was exactly on point:
It is the BIBLE that teaches that all men are either saved (children of God)
or unsaved (children of Satan).

I am just repeating what the BIBLE says.

Jim

I asked that because iit was unclear to me what you had previously been talking about when you said something to the effect that children of the devil are not to be called brothers.
Recall that my original post that you were responding to then had to do with the idea that Esau and his brother Jacob were becoming reconciled to each other.

But at this point, it is clear to me that your own response to me that time was mostly just random anyway, and a segway to your own talking point about salvation rather than a critique or commentary on the post being quoted.

So carry on.

 

[Colter]

While I appreciate your "feelings" on the subject... you neglected to provide Scripture
to support your opinion. Let's just assume that we are not talking about God hating
SATAN and all the fallen angels. Let's assume we are only talking about people.

Psalm 5:5 seems to disagree with you:
Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: THOU HATEST all workers of iniquity.

In proverbs 6 seems to disagree with you also:
Pro 6:16 These six things DOTH THE LORD HATE: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

It is probably safe to say that God does not only hate the "hands" of murderers...
He hates every other part of them... since not only the "hands" are destined for
an eternity of torment.

1Co6 indicates God hates more than just murderers...
since all manner of EVIL PEOPLE must suffer eternal torment.

1Co 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor
abusers of themselves with mankind,1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards,
nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Lev 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you:
for they committed all these things, and THEREFORE I ABHORRED THEM.

Hos 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I HATED THEM: for the wickedness
of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes
are revolters.


So I have provided 5-6 passages of SCRIPTURE saying that God HATES people...
do you have ANY SCRIPTURE that supports your "feelings" that God does not
hate people?

Humans wrote the scriptures, they reflect mans "feelings" about God among those who wrote them. The concept of God improves throughout the scripture, not because God changes but because mans understanding of God improves. The Love of God saves the sinner, the Law of God eventually destroys the sin for the simple fact that when a person becomes completely identified with sin they are unreal in a spiritual economy.

 

[Anguspure]

Romans 9:13 says, "As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”.

I have two questions regarding this text in the book of Romans. Please answer both questions, and provide a brief explanation of your answers if you wish.

1) Why did God hate Esau?

2) What was the consequence of God’'s hate for Esau?

​

Why did YHWH Love Jacob?, is a better question.

 

[Colter]

Yet, you free from the weakness of every other man?

You said, "Men tend to create God in their own image." I agree, and I can point to many of your posts in which you are engaged in just that.

Wouldn't that apply to you as well???

Do you hate people and assume that God must hate people in the same way? Jesus loved even his enemies, his tormentors. He even had a forgiving spirit towards those who were crucifying him.

In your world if God is so hatful than surly his Son must be hateful. What sermons did Jesus give on how hateful we should be? Where does it say "hate one another as I have hated you"?

 

[Colter]

Why did YHWH Love Jacob?, is a better question.

Because the authors were fans of Jacob. Its like John claiming he was the apostle whom Jesus loved. John had a little biased towards himself.

 

[RC1970]

I think it is pretty obvious to anyone reading Romans 9:13, in context and not through Calvinistic lens, that this is not about individual salvation, but about God's elective purpose of the nation of Israel and Israel’s national role in through history because Romans 9, 10, and 11 are all about national Israel and her role in redemptive history. Besides that, as others have pointed out Paul is directly quoting from Malachi 1:1-2. The context of Malachi clearly indicates that the word “Jacob” refers to the nation of Israel and the word “Esau” to the nation of Edom.

This is further supported in Genesis...
The Lord said to her,

“Two nations are in your womb;
And two peoples will be separated from your body;
And one people shall be stronger than the other;
And the older shall serve the younger.”


When her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb. Now the first came forth red, all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau. Afterward his brother came forth with his hand holding on to Esau’s heel, so his name was called Jacob. Genesis 25:23-26

No. It is the Dispensationalist that is taking Paul out of context. You all are going back to Malachi, who had a different point to make, and are trying to link Paul's point with Malachi. But, clearly, Paul has a completely different subject in mind here in Romans 9. When reading here, you can't just forget everything that came before it (CONTEXT) and assume that Paul is changing the subject for some unknown reason. Paul is not changing the subject, he is still talking about salvation.

“Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Clearly Jacob is as big of a rascal as Esau, maybe even more so, but God is not looking at their behavior when He make His choice.

Now Paul asks "Is there injustice on God's part?". Why would anyone ask this question if all that God is doing is selecting two rascals to be the head of two nations. This question would only be relevant if the choosing had to do with salvation, which neither man is worthy of.

Paul goes on, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” The nations didn't receive mercy, but Jacob sure did. God saves individuals, not nations.

Paul says "So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills." What does this statement have to do with nation building?... NOTHING.

Paul's next question, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” Is this a question that only Jacob and Esau would ask, or is this something that everyone asks when they find out that God chooses, for salvation, whom to have mercy on and whom to harden. Same as before, nothing to do with selecting leaders of nations.

Paul goes on, "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" Is God "calling" us to be leaders of nations? No, because Paul is not talking about that, he is talking about salvation.

 

[Ken Rank]

Again, you all are missing the point. If you are going to think only in a modern Western mind and in English then "hate" has to mean despise. But if you understand that "____ I hate" is a Hebraic IDIOMATIC PHRASE then that takes God out of the business of "despising people He created."

To say, "Jacob I love and Esau I hated" is simply to say, "I love Jacob more." Or when we read, "Rachel I love and Leah I hate" we again understand that Jacob didn't hate Leah... he fathered children with her!!! But, he loved Rachel more. That makes far more sense than Jacob sleeping with a woman and fathering children with a woman he "hates!"

 

[Tree of Life]

1) Why did God hate Esau?

Because he loved Jacob.

2) What was the consequence of God’'s hate for Esau?

​

There are many levels of consequences. But simply put, if Esau wanted to be blessed he must receive his blessing through Jacob.

 

[StevenBelievin]

Romans 9:13 says, "As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”.

I have two questions regarding this text in the book of Romans. Please answer both questions, and provide a brief explanation of your answers if you wish.

1) Why did God hate Esau?

Because He chose to.

2) What was the consequence of God’'s hate for Esau?

Eternal Damnation

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Humans wrote the scriptures, they reflect mans "feelings" about God among those who wrote them.

This only means , according to YHWH, according to His Spirit, according to His Word (SCRIPTURES)
that
you don't understand SCRIPTURES, nor accept YHWH'S WORD , yet.

 

[Archivist]

Why Did God Hate Esau?

Maybe God just doesn't like hairy men.

Genesis 27:11: "But my brother Esau is a hairy man..."

 

[Kit Sigmon]

Romans 9:13 says, "As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”.

I have two questions regarding this text in the book of Romans. Please answer both questions, and provide a brief explanation of your answers if you wish.

1) Why did God hate Esau?
Romans 9:21-33

2) What was the consequence of God’'s hate for Esau?

​

Consequences...
Genesis 26:34-35
Genesis 27:20-40
Genesis 28:6-9
Chapter 36 of Genesis
Obadiah 1:1

 

[RisenInJesus]

No. It is the Dispensationalist that is taking Paul out of context. You all are going back to Malachi, who had a different point to make, and are trying to link Paul's point with Malachi. But, clearly, Paul has a completely different subject in mind here in Romans 9. When reading here, you can't just forget everything that came before it (CONTEXT) and assume that Paul is changing the subject for some unknown reason. Paul is not changing the subject, he is still talking about salvation.

It is not about Dispensationalism, Calvinism, or whatever, but what the Bible says. Paul's subject in Romans 9, 10, 11 was national Israel and Gentile nations and he directly quoted from Malachi to demonstrate this point.

"When studying the Bible, it is critically important to always study the context of a particular Bible verse or passage. In these instances, the prophet Malachi and the apostle Paul are using the name “Esau” to refer to the Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau. Isaac and Rebekah had two sons, Esau and Jacob. God chose Jacob (whom He later renamed “Israel”) to be the father of His chosen people, the Israelites. God rejected Esau (who was also called “Edom”) and did not choose him to be the father of His chosen people. Esau and his descendants, the Edomites, were in many ways blessed by God (Genesis 33:9; Genesis chapter 36).'
Why did God love Jacob and hate Esau (Malachi 1:3; Romans 9:13)?

“Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Clearly Jacob is as big of a rascal as Esau, maybe even more so, but God is not looking at their behavior when He make His choice.

Now Paul asks "Is there injustice on God's part?". Why would anyone ask this question if all that God is doing is selecting two rascals to be the head of two nations. This question would only be relevant if the choosing had to do with salvation, which neither man is worthy of.

The question is very relevant because Jacob, Easu and Pharaoh referred to in Romans 9 were the heads of nations/representing nations which were very important to God's work in history, especially the history and purpose involving the nation of Israel.

Paul goes on, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” The nations didn't receive mercy, but Jacob sure did. God saves individuals, not nations.

Paul says "So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills." What does this statement have to do with nation building?... NOTHING.

Paul's next question, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” Is this a question that only Jacob and Esau would ask, or is this something that everyone asks when they find out that God chooses, for salvation, whom to have mercy on and whom to harden. Same as before, nothing to do with selecting leaders of nations.

Paul goes on, "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" Is God "calling" us to be leaders of nations? No, because Paul is not talking about that, he is talking about salvation.

I didn't say anything about building nations. The point is God's use and election of nations in His plan through history on earth, especially His redemptive work through the nation of Israel. Paul was simply addressing the mistaken idea which the Jews had that although they were chosen by God as a nation for certain purposes this did not mean that they automatically had individual salvation. Along with this Paul was revealing to them that God had now opened His mercy to the Gentiles.