Why did God afflict Job?

[Jedi.Kep]

Since I'm late to the party I'll toss a few hats into the ring...

Isn't it interesting that Job loses absolutely everything except... a nagging, unbelieving wife. I was married to one of those once.

I also find it interesting that Job's conversation with his three friends is essentially worthless for getting theology from since they are all incorrect in their assumptions? The only one who said anything worth mentioning was Elihu and God.

Third and final point. This verse:
And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”
Everyone takes it as God decreed something. But "Behold" simply means "look!" I read it like "Look stupid!" as though Satan was clueless to Job's current condition and God had to reveal it to him.

Okay, now have fun and tear it up.

 

[simply christian]

Since I'm late to the party I'll toss a few hats into the ring...

Isn't it interesting that Job loses absolutely everything except... a nagging, unbelieving wife. I was married to one of those once.

I also find it interesting that Job's conversation with his three friends is essentially worthless for getting theology from since they are all incorrect in their assumptions? The only one who said anything worth mentioning was Elihu and God.

Third and final point. This verse:
And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”
Everyone takes it as God decreed something. But "Behold" simply means "look!" I read it like "Look stupid!" as though Satan was clueless to Job's current condition and God had to reveal it to him.

Okay, now have fun and tear it up.

That is one way to look at it.

And Job's friends were right in idea, but wrong in application. I have never once cited Job or his friends in my discussion. I have only cited the narration itself which says God brought the evil upon Job (or God's words themself which say the same). I have only cited from chapters 1, 2 and 42. Nothing in-between.

 

[Jedi.Kep]

That is one way to look at it.

And Job's friends were right in idea, but wrong in application. I have never once cited Job or his friends in my discussion. I have only cited the narration itself which says God brought the evil upon Job (or God's words themself which say the same). I have only cited from chapters 1, 2 and 42. Nothing in-between.

The point I was making was that the three friends had to seek forgiveness for their words but Elihu did not. IMO those words are well worth reading.

Like these ones:

Job 34:10 Therefore, hear me, you men of understanding,
far be it from God that he should do wickedness and from the Almighty that he should do wrong....

and...

verse 12; Of a truth, God will not do wickedly, and the Almighty will not pervert justice.

 

[now faith]

I believe the book of Job,was intended by God for a different understanding than to think God simply allowed his trial.
To me the point in Job,was that our good deeds are filthy rags to God.
Job was in mans eyes righteous,in Satans eyes as well him serving flesh.
The book is dynamically filled with history of animals we never understood,it teaches us about time period of dinosaurs.
God shows Job his good works were useless on his own.
God shows Job and us what life through works and not God is ls about.
Satan destroys Job,yet God retores him.
God uses a interesting metaphor of a dragon and his being indestructible to man alone.
Job 41:30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire. 41:31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment. 41:32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary. 41:33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear. 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.
King over the children of pride is Satan
This is the point of the book of Job,not to accuse God.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

<staff edit>

So far you've said you feared this.... You just called yourself a victim. What else? Sing Linda Ronstadt's "Poor poor pitiful me?"

You see I see you as a child of God. I've explained why the orthodox manner of blaming God and putting you at the end of a rope as a sinner held by the hands of an angry God is not appropriate for the God of the bible. I've reached my hand out and tried to lift you from this mire that you are stuck in.

But you refuse to reach up.

I'm not going to play the enabler and agree with you and let you continue to blame God for things bad, and blame fellow Christians because they won't help a fellow who simply doesn't want help, and yell at all others wrapped in the disguise of "asking" when you aren't listening to the answers anyway.

And all in this process you trample the Word of God underfoot.

 

[PastorMike]

There is also a term called "victim playing."

In the Bible there's a thing called responsibility.

Agreed Bro, there is also God blaming which really make no sense at all...

Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Job was condemning God to make him look good or blaming God when Job was really to blame...

 

[Juelrei]

I can really relate to Job in the Bible. He goes through a great deal. However, I would like to know why God afflicts Job and why he does the same today. Even if we blame the devil, God still authorized Satan to attack Job. So how do we make sense of this, in light of Word of Faith teachings?

God did not afflict Job. God did not "authorize" the devil to attack Job. God is not for the devil and against us.

If God was okay with the devil attacking Job then what's that hedge up for? Any fence is supposed to keep intruders out, right?

The devil made a case before God that if God took everything from Job, he would curse him. And if God refuses to take away what he has lavished upon Job, then Job would be foolish to say anything bad about God. Sort of a 'damned if I do, and damned if I don't' kind of thing.

God made the case that Job is righteous. Therefore he wouldn't crumble like that. And God took a stance of devil conquering faith "I don't have to take anything away, there's already an opportunity for you devil. My righteous man and I can beat you any day. Go ahead, Take your worst shot. Make my day."

The devil grinned and made a quick exit out of the throne room of heaven. And began to demolish everything Job had. The devil got to his wife and said, "Why don't you just curse God and die!" Why thank you sweetheart for being in faith agreement with me.

Those three guys thought they knew the answer to Job's problems, but it took Job forgiving those guys for accusations against him to put the hedge back up. Forgiveness is love in action. Faith works by love. God's love is salvation/deliverance/victory.

Job got blessed with more of what he had before. God wants us to prosper and be able to work with him (by faith) to protect what God gives us.

 

[PastorMike]

God did not afflict Job. God did not "authorize" the devil to attack Job. God is not for the devil and against us.

If God was okay with the devil attacking Job then what's that hedge up for? Any fence is supposed to keep intruders out, right?

Eccl. 10:8 He that diggeth a pit shall fall into it; and whoso breaketh an hedge, a serpent shall bite him.

Job broke down the hedge and the serpent bit him...

 

[liferiver]

Along the same line of thought, one of the most puzzling scripture attributing "evil" to God is:

Isaiah 45:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

But scripture is also clear that God is good
James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

I don't understand too. But I'll stay at God is a good God in that He demonstrated His love by act of Jesus dying on the cross.

 

[pk4yahweh]

Along the same line of thought, one of the most puzzling scripture attributing "evil" to God is:

Isaiah 45:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

But scripture is also clear that God is good
James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

I don't understand too. But I'll stay at God is a good God in that He demonstrated His love by act of Jesus dying on the cross.

This verse has been discussed many times - the word for "evil" isn't speaking of morality, but the opposite of "peace" (just as darkness is opposite of light). It is the same concept as Deut - God placing the Blessing and The Curse before us for our choice. It reveals the very opposite of control... which is real love.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Eccl. 10:8 He that diggeth a pit shall fall into it; and whoso breaketh an hedge, a serpent shall bite him.

Job broke down the hedge and the serpent bit him...

Amen, amen, amen and amen!!!

 

[simply christian]

Along the same line of thought, one of the most puzzling scripture attributing "evil" to God is:

Isaiah 45:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

But scripture is also clear that God is good
James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

I don't understand too. But I'll stay at God is a good God in that He demonstrated His love by act of Jesus dying on the cross.

He's good, but he sends evil and does evil things sometimes? That is a logical impossibility.

 

[Scottmcc1]

Eccl. 10:8 He that diggeth a pit shall fall into it; and whoso breaketh an hedge, a serpent shall bite him.

Job broke down the hedge and the serpent bit him...

Great verse Pastor Mike

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Commenting only on:

"Where does it say that God removed the hedge? Job feared and took upon himself the sanctification of his family: Job left the protection of the hedge."

DO the math.

God points out Job to satan, and asks: "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

Satan says: "Hast not thou (God) made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side?" SO the "hedge" was solidly in place EVEN THOUGH Job had all these "Bad profession" issues!!

And God says: "Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand."

SO WHO is tearing down the hedge??? CLUE: it's not Job, it's GOD HIMSELF giving satan selective access to Job's STUFF - but NOT to Job himself -yet.

It really couldn't be any clearer in the Word y'all.

 

[simply christian]

Commenting only on:

"Where does it say that God removed the hedge? Job feared and took upon himself the sanctification of his family: Job left the protection of the hedge."

DO the math.

God points out Job to satan, and asks: "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

Satan says: "Hast not thou (God) made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side?" SO the "hedge" was solidly in place EVEN THOUGH Job had all these "Bad profession" issues!!

And God says: "Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand."

SO WHO is tearing down the hedge??? CLUE: it's not Job, it's GOD HIMSELF giving satan selective access to Job's STUFF - but NOT to Job himself -yet.

It really couldn't be any clearer in the Word y'all.

That's true. I don't like it, but that is what is written.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Commenting only on:

"Where does it say that God removed the hedge? Job feared and took upon himself the sanctification of his family: Job left the protection of the hedge."

DO the math.

God points out Job to satan, and asks: "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

Satan says: "Hast not thou (God) made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side?" SO the "hedge" was solidly in place EVEN THOUGH Job had all these "Bad profession" issues!!

And God says: "Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand."

SO WHO is tearing down the hedge??? CLUE: it's not Job, it's GOD HIMSELF giving satan selective access to Job's STUFF - but NOT to Job himself -yet.

It really couldn't be any clearer in the Word y'all.

Honestly, we both make supposition over who did anything with the hedge. Satan made an observation. NOTHING says that God responded to it.

Next, and I'm "just sayin'," but who said that Job was in fear at the time Satan made his observation to God? Satan's observation is in 1:9; Job doesn't admit to the fear until chapter 3 (late in it too). Obviously the effects of whatever the cause are felt back in chapter 1....but, let's look....

Job 3:20-26 (with v25 the "fear" verse)
20 &#8220;Why is light given to him who is in misery,
And life to the bitter of soul,
21 Who long for death, but it does not come,
And search for it more than hidden treasures;
22 Who rejoice exceedingly,
And are glad when they can find the grave?
23 Why is light given to a man whose way is hidden,
And whom God has hedged in?
24 For my sighing comes before I eat,[b]
And my groanings pour out like water.
25 For the thing I greatly feared has come upon me,
And what I dreaded has happened to me.
26 I am not at ease, nor am I quiet;
I have no rest, for trouble comes.&#8221;
​

Yes, verse 25 is the "fear" verse. Hmm, verse 23 mentions the hedge. No mention of God lifting it -- only that God put one there.

Why do we (you OR I) think that the hedge has moved at all???

Job 1:8-12
8 Then the Lord said to Satan, &#8220;Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?&#8221;
9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, &#8220;Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!&#8221;
12 And the Lord said to Satan, &#8220;Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.&#8221;
So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
​

Nothing! God commends Job as blameless and upright. Satan OBSERVES that there is a hedge -- tells God to stretch out His hand...

But, NOTHING about God stretching out His hand; NOTHING about a removal of the hedge. No movement from God at all.

Only an admission that Satan already has power in the earth -- but that God's protection is on the person of Job; Satan cannot touch him. Does that sound like a hedge removal??

Satan went, realizing that there was much he could to to make suggestions to Job to disparage God, to put thoughts into his head that God had forgotten him, to give him the idea that God has withdrawn. Satan even got Job's wife to take the bait and start pestering him.

Did God remove the hedge? Nope. It is up in chapter 1; it is up in chapter 3.

So how did Satan get to him? Well: Job feared. Job claimed without evidence ("it may be that") that his sons had sinned and cursed God in their hearts (1:5). Job took it upon himself to sanctify them, to make burnt offerings, all in the name of fear, all in the name of "it may be that..."

No, God didn't lift the hedge; Job probably didn't lift the hedge. But he certainly walked around it, out of the protection, and smack dab into the middle of the curse that came upon him and his.

 

[pk4yahweh]

... No, God didn't lift the hedge; Job probably didn't lift the hedge. But he certainly walked around it, out of the protection, and smack dab into the middle of the curse that came upon him and his.

It really couldn't be any clearer in the Word, ya'll.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

There are so many misconceptions about the book of Job. As with any book or passage, much of your understanding is determined by your own preconceived ideas. Most people go into the book with several preconceived ideas, and these ideas control their understanding of the book. They provide their own "context" for book instead of allowing the book to speak for itself and provide its own context.

These are some preconceived ideas:

1." God is in control of everything" > Obviously He is not, else the world would be a paradise. One need only look around and see that this world is not under His complete control. Suffering, death, darkness, sickness, and being lost is the default setting at this time. These are not exceptions that are being permitted by God on a one my one basis. These things are the norm in a fallen world. Jesus came to change that, and that is an intervention against the norm. Chanting the mantra "God is in control of everything" is just religiosity gone to seed. It is a myth we made up for children so they could go to sleep at night. Adults know by experience and scriptural knowledge what is the truth. The word "control" does not even exist in the KJV. It is indeed fishy that an entire doctrine is build up around a word that cannot be found in the word.

2. "Sovereign means control" > Read the dictionary. It never means control. It means potential control if we choose to exert it. We are all sovereign in our own spheres else we could do nothing. Sovereignty simply means to do what you want to do within your sphere and the limitations of your power and ability - and then only when you choose to. It does not mean you are a slave who has to work out the tedious day to day operations of the universe. It certainly does not mean to micromanage a thing. The word sovereign does not even exist in the KJV. Again, it is fishy that an entire doctrine is build up around a word that cannot be found in the word.

3. "Satan in not sovereign" > Of course he is. He has the same powers and rights to operate in this world as anyone else. He can do anything he wants within the power and ability God gave him from the start. He is called the "god of this world" and in several places said to have power.

4. "Satan has to ask permission to do things" > There is no evidence of this anywhere. In line with #3, nothing in creation is set up to prevent this "roaring lion" from devouring anyone he can get to. He is compared to a roaring seeking to devour. Loins do not ask God for permission to get a gazelle. Lions have permission by the mere fact of their existence. This is also true of Satan. If we do not resist, be sober, and be vigilant we may be devoured. Satan, like all free agents in the universe, can do anything he wants limited only by his own power and ability. Can God step in and stop him? Of course! But this is the exception and not the rule. This is an intervention against the norm.


Misreadings directly from Job:

1. Satan asked permission to get Job. Wrong. Satan wanted GOD to put His hand on Job. Satan did not ask permission, did not receive permission and that because he already had standing permission to get anyone he could. If fact many believe that Job had already tried to get job prior to even talking to God. Look at Young's' literal translation of Job 1:8

Job 1:8
And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, `Hast thou set thy heart against My servant Job because there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?'

This verse reveals two important things. One is that Satan has already set his heart against job and failed because he found an alleged "hedge." The second thing is that God was not asking Satan IF he has attacked Job. God knew that. God as asking Satan WHY he had attacked Job..

..."hast thou set thy heart against My servant Job because there is none like him in the land...'

So we can see that Satan had already tried to get Job without asking for any permission. One we realize this "permission" issue is bogus, then the rest of the conversation falls into place.

We proceed to the next verses with the correct context. The context was set by God when He asked Satan WHY he had attacked Job, and God asserts the answer"

"(Did you try to attack Job) because there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?"

Satan answers this question, and is making an accusation at the same time:

Job 1:
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

The reason (WHY) Satan attempted to attack Job was because Job was blessed of God. Satan is subtlety suggesting that all of the worship and reverence men (not just Job) give to God is purchased. He is suggesting that if God did not bless men, then men would not serve Him.

(Note: Satan is admitting that he already attempted to attack Job when he mentions the hedge. Satan is not omnipresent and omniscient. The only way he would know there was a hedge is if he had already tried to attack Job, and that without immediate special permission. He was able to attack Job with the permission he already had since creation began.)

And then Satan suggests to God the HE put out His hand and touch Job. God course declines as is evidence by the rest of the book. Never does God put forth His hand upon Job. It is always Satan.

But the main point with these two verses is the accusation that people only reverence and worship God because they are paid off to do so. It is THIS accusation that God responds to, NOT the suggestion that God should hurt Job.

So God responds to the accusation that Job is only serving Him because of a hedge. This is what God says TO THAT ACCUSATION:

Job 1
12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

This is not "permission" for Satan to do anything (Satan already had that). God is merely telling Satan that there is no hedge, and therefore his accusation that Job only serves because of a hedge is false.This is God answering Satan's accusation... not God giving Satan permission.

This is what it means:

Hedge? What hedge? There is no hedge. That has disappeared since you last attacked him. Your accusation is therefore false. There is no hedge now and Job worships me anyway! Look (Behold) for yourself. Can't you see all he has is in your hands! It has been since the hedge came down. You can get to him now, but in this instance I am going to limit you (NOT give permission) from what you normally could do (devour him). You cannot kill him. Other than that, everything else is in your hands as usual.

The only way a person would read "look, all he has is in your hands" as some sort of permission is if they came into this book with the preconceived idea that "God is in control of everything" and therefore Satan would need permission. Bogus.

From there Satan (not God) renews (not begins) his attempt to attack on Job. His former attempt was unsuccessful because of the hedge. At some point before God and Satan had their talk the hedge came down. There is no evidence that God pushed the hedge down.

It is significant that the story says that the things Job greatly feared came upon him. It is possible that Jobs constant fear that his children might curse God actually pushed the hedge down:


Job 1
5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

He did this continually. He was greatly afraid for his children.

Job 3:
25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

So this may be what happened to the hedge. The hedge may have come down due to fear which leads to doubt. Doubt may have pushed down the hedge just as fear and doubt caused Peter to sink.

Matthew 14:
28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?


When the report of the death of Jairus' daughter came, Jesus said:

Luke 8:
50 But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.

Jesus contrasted fear and belief. Fear causes doubt and unbelief. Fear and unbelief cause people to sink and hedges to come down.

The thing Job greatly feared (harm coming to his children) was one of the first things that happened to Job. He greatly feared for his children, and then his children were killed.


Job 1
18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.


This post is just a drop in the bucket of the misconceptions and bogus interpretations of this great book. There are many more.

 

[pk4yahweh]

Beware those killer Loins! Lol!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Beware those killer Loins! Lol!

I actually used to present it this way.
My little kitty can come up and scratch you any time he wants. It does not ask permission. It does not need it. She just runs right up and scratches and bites your toes. I guess according to the "satan can only do what God 'allows' him to' crowd my kitty has more power, authorty, and control than satan.
Do not worry about satan.. you need to worry about my kitty!!!