Why did God afflict Job?

PastorMike

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It's difficult to be happy with God when he is the one afflicting me, as he did with Job. Even if it was the enemy doing this, God is still the one calling the shots, authorizing my persecution, which effectively makes him the one responsible.

I don't think Job's kids all being killed was in any way beneficial. Are you WoF? No WoF teacher I know would dare say God kills your kids to teach you a lesson. That's religious thinking, not WoF!


You have a far more serious problem that bad theology... If you think God is your problem then you have a big problem...

God is not your problem, God is your answer...
 
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Mess

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Purely theologically speaking. The purpose of the book of Job is simple, not all the suffering in the world can be explained. Look at Job's wife, and at his so called friends. His friends are the kind of people that try to persuade him something was wrong with him, cause well, God wouldn't take these things away from you without reason would he? When you speak about who afflicted Job, look at God's actions at the end of Job, and then look at His law. When you unlawfully take something away from someone, you should repay it what was it two fold? That's exactly what God did at the end of the book of Job. Like it or not, God allowed Satan to take the things away from Job, and He knew it was unfair to Job, so He repayed His servant in twofold.
 
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mandelduke

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It's unfortunate you had such a terrible life.

But, is that your testimony? You had a terrible life that God gave you and that is why I should not believe God is bad? That does not make any sense.

Telling me how bad God has made your life only proves my point further.
God did not make my life hard; God has blessed me for as long as I can remember. I only suffer what is common to man, living in this falling world. Even dogs have enough since not to bite the hand that feeds them. :cool:
 
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motherprayer

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A very good post.

If I may approach a sensitive subject, as I do not know what your denominational beliefs are so they may not line up with Word/Faith, but if I could change one thought in you (and your husband) from this post it would be this: God did NOT call his son home. His son is in the arms of Jesus (making this claim in agreement with you as a response to the great faith I see in this post). It is the fact that this earth has been cracked by the curse and there are things that happen here and to us who live here that cause pain and sometimes death.

To continue in this belief (that God called him home early) can lead to a bitterness against God (perhaps in you or your husband at some point; or perhaps in someone who will read your post in the future). God does not cause such tragedy. The curse is the cause of tragedy. The devil will try to get us to walk in the curse and to embrace the curse, for only he comes to destroy.

I'm sorry for your stepson. No parent should ever have to go through this. I do not know what I would do if one of my sons were to die. But I do know that such would not be the cause of God, not from His touch or from His "calling one home." God is love.

I pray that my post does not offend. I write this only in love.

Aw bless you! I'm not entirely sure either if my beliefs line up with Word of Faith. I don't really claim any denomination, but rather when I'm here I try to post on the denominational forums in fellowship when I can.
When I said "God called him home," that belief stems from where He said in His Word that He makes alive and kills. I don't feel resentment towards God about it, for a very big reason: This boy had many problems. He WAS a sincere believer in Christ, but his mother (not me) was working on bringing him away from the faith in her own anger against God.
I believe God knew he needed comfort that no one here on earth could give him (emotional comfort) and so He took him to a place where He Himself could give him that comfort.

Please don't report me. I do apologize if this doesn't line up with Word of Faith, and I promise I'm not trying to debate. I only posted here because I know how hard the Book of Job can be to someone's faith, if they can't digest the lesson behind it :)
 
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Bob Carabbio

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Yes, a scary thought indeed. Satan MADE God attack Job?
Well, there went sovereignty right out the window.


Except the Bible never says that - it's the "normal WoF Strawman" - along with "Job brought it all on himself with his lousy "profession".

The Bible is totally clear that GOD, in His sovereignty, started the issue (hast thou considered), and satan took the bait hook line and sinker (there's this pesky hedge that I can't get through). SO GOD raises the hedge with surgical precision, so that Job can be attacked according to his need.

And the Bible records the ultimate success of the exercise (42:6). WoF runs in HORROR from any suggestion that God would make things "inconvenient" for them in spite of Heb 12:

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
 
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Yes, a scary thought indeed. Satan MADE God attack Job?
Well, there went sovereignty right out the window.


Except the Bible never says that - it's the "normal WoF Strawman" - along with "Job brought it all on himself with his lousy "profession".

The Bible is totally clear that GOD, in His sovereignty, started the issue (hast thou considered), and satan took the bait hook line and sinker (there's this pesky hedge that I can't get through). SO GOD raises the hedge with surgical precision, so that Job can be attacked according to his need.

And the Bible records the ultimate success of the exercise (42:6). WoF runs in HORROR from any suggestion that God would make things "inconvenient" for them in spite of Heb 12:

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

A god that kills people's kids to win a bet with Satan is not one I would want to worship. I'm not even sure the Greek gods were that cruel and cold-hearted.
 
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Scottmcc1

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You insight Me against him.

Man had authority over the earth and lost it with original sin. Satan gained authority over the earth and is called god of this world.

Jesus regained the authority by his death and resurrection.

We now can walk in this authority by faith, but not without faith. Satan still rules because of the blindness, ignorance, laziness of people.

So going back to Job. Why was Satan vying for Job? It was God that overstepped His bounds with the hedge around Job. The "you insight Me against Job." This was said because Satan stating that God was outside of His authority and had to back off. God backed off somewhat but not completely.


This is not Scripture but it's implied. There is a lot involved with spiritual authority.

And James 5:11. You ignore this verse to your peril. When you blame God instead of turning to Him for your help you are putting yourself in an unprotected position.

Saying that God permitted Satan to do something and is responsible for Satan's actions by backing off His hedge is wrong.
 
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You insight Me against him.

Man had authority over the earth and lost it with original sin. Satan gained authority over the earth and is called god of this world.

Jesus regained the authority by his death and resurrection.

We now can walk in this authority by faith, but not without faith. Satan still rules because of the blindness, ignorance, laziness of people.

So going back to Job. Why was Satan vying for Job? It was God that overstepped His bounds with the hedge around Job. The "you insight Me against Job." This was said because Satan stating that God was outside of His authority and had to back off. God backed off somewhat but not completely.


This is not Scripture but it's implied. There is a lot involved with spiritual authority.

And James 5:11. You ignore this verse to your peril. When you blame God instead of turning to Him for your help you are putting yourself in an unprotected position.

Saying that God permitted Satan to do something and is responsible for Satan's actions by backing off His hedge is wrong.

The first part of your answer makes sense.

I don't see what you quoting James has to do with anything, however?
 
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motherprayer

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The first part of your answer makes sense.

I don't see what you quoting James has to do with anything, however?

All of Scripture works together as a whole. James 5:11 says:
Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

It offers encouragement for those who are hurting, that their endurance can lead to patience, and stength of faith.
 
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All of Scripture works together as a whole. James 5:11 says:
Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

It offers encouragement for those who are hurting, that their endurance can lead to patience, and stength of faith.

It doesn't help me feel any better.

Not all who suffer horrible things get more faith, some wither and die.
 
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It doesn't help me feel any better.

Not all who suffer horrible things get more faith, some wither and die.
Certainly you're aware that Word of Faith doctrine as well as all Christian doctrine on faith doesn't put much faith in feelings. Did Paul sing and praise God while in prison or get angry with God and start blaming God for his many sufferings.

2 Corinthians 11:24-27 (CJB)
24 Five times I received “forty lashes less one” from the Jews.
25 Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked. I spent a night and a day in the open sea.
26 In my many travels I have been exposed to danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the desert, danger at sea, danger from false brothers.
27 I have toiled and endured hardship, often not had enough sleep, been hungry and thirsty, frequently gone without food, been cold and naked.
.
Paul didn't wither and die. Job didn't wither and die. Their faith sustained them, so what's your excuse other then a few bumps in the road and an occasional pity party. Being attracted to Word of Faith doesn't mean a life of luxury. It means you should have even more faith in God and less faith in Satan's ability to confuse you with fleating feelings of unfaithfulness.
 
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now faith

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In the last chapters God solves our puzzle.
There simply things we cannot do,as in save ourselves we are redeemed through Christ who sits on the right hand of God.
Job 40:9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? 40:10 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty. 40:11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. 40:12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. 40:13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret. 40:14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.
This was a promise of Christ,man cannot go it on his goodness I cannot nor could Job.
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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So you're saying Satan too was innocent (not just God)?
Are you simply not listening? Job feared and walked into the curse. Upon doing this it opens the door for the devil have access. Under God's wing Job is protected, surrounded by a hedge. Too many assume that since Satan said a hedge protected Job that it was God that raised the hedge. Scripture doesn't say this. Job feared and left the protection of the hedge. Open game.
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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Yes, a scary thought indeed. Satan MADE God attack Job?
Well, there went sovereignty right out the window.

Except the Bible never says that - it's the "normal WoF Strawman" - along with "Job brought it all on himself with his lousy "profession".
Well, his profession is clearly written in scripture.

The Bible is totally clear that GOD, in His sovereignty, started the issue (hast thou considered), and satan took the bait hook line and sinker (there's this pesky hedge that I can't get through). SO GOD raises the hedge with surgical precision, so that Job can be attacked according to his need.
Nope. Where does it say that God removed the hedge? Job feared and took upon himself the sanctification of his family: Job left the protection of the hedge.

And the Bible records the ultimate success of the exercise (42:6). WoF runs in HORROR from any suggestion that God would make things "inconvenient" for them in spite of Heb 12:

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Bob, on the other forums when have I EVER run from the concept of chastening (let alone run in HORROR)??

The problem is that too many want chastening to be an infliction of sickness and disease and handicaps and even death to teach those connected to the dead person.

God will certainly move in these situations and help people to understand His will, teach people a better avenue to walk in spite of the current circumstances that they find themselves. But God is not the first agent in sickness and disease. When Jesus died on the cross He took these things away; He paid the price for these things. He came to this earth and He went about healing people of these things. And you want me to believe that it is God's will to inflict people with these things?? Then Jesus did not do the will of the Father!

No, Bob. These things are the result of the curse and their infliction upon man is our own doing, from the fall to our everyday walk. The curse has infected us. But the scripture is clear that Jesus paid that price that we do have have to be subject to the curse or to sin. We have been set free of all that.
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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Certainly you're aware that Word of Faith doctrine as well as all Christian doctrine on faith doesn't put much faith in feelings. Did Paul sing and praise God while in prison or get angry with God and start blaming God for his many sufferings.

2 Corinthians 11:24-27 (CJB)
24 Five times I received “forty lashes less one” from the Jews.
25 Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked. I spent a night and a day in the open sea.
26 In my many travels I have been exposed to danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the desert, danger at sea, danger from false brothers.
27 I have toiled and endured hardship, often not had enough sleep, been hungry and thirsty, frequently gone without food, been cold and naked.
.
Paul didn't wither and die. Job didn't wither and die. Their faith sustained them, so what's your excuse other then a few bumps in the road and an occasional pity party. Being attracted to Word of Faith doesn't mean a life of luxury. It means you should have even more faith in God and less faith in Satan's ability to confuse you with fleating feelings of unfaithfulness.
Amen! :thumbsup:
 
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I understand your struggles. I would like to try to answer your questions, possibly? I can't guarantee I will have every answer, but I WON'T attack you.

Thanks but I came here looking for Word of Faith answers specifically. I know all about the standard religious answers and they don't work for me. If religion had answers, I wouldn't be here.

Sadly, they have already shown me that they do not have the answers and that my fears were correct. Refusal to answer is, in fact, an answer in itself.
 
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