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Why Did D. M. Canright leave the Seventh-Day Adventists?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by Saint Steven, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    @liberty of conscience
    So you agree that Jesus was working on the Sabbath.
    Is that Sabbath-breaking to work on the Sabbath? (desecration)
     
  2. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

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    You're a long way off your own OP. Back 40 ...
     
  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    The Bible doesn't mean what it says?
    Do you mean like a liar, or deceiver?

    So, I can't trust the Bible to say what it says?
    I need to go to somewhere else for understanding?
    That sounds like the definition of a cult.
     
  4. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I am the Lord of my topic. I can break the rules if I want to.
    Isn't that what it means to be the Lord of something?
     
  5. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

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    I quoted the scripture previously and I always agree with scripture (Isaiah 8:20). Again:

    Joh_5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

    The working (healing) of Jesus in the context of John 5 is not the common/profane "labour" forbidden by the 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11), but is harmonious with the "keep[ing]" "holy" the sabbath by "do[ing] well" (Matthew 12:12).

    As I have shown you, there are two kinds of work.

    Holy

    Profane/common
     
  6. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

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    M.O.
     
  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Sorry. This will be along post. TL/DR
    You claimed that I did not understand Matthew twelve.
    But let's look at what happened and the reasons Jesus gave for it.

    Matthew 12:1-2
    At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    This is another basic violation of the Sabbath. Food gathering.
    Ever since the Sabbath was given in Exodus chapter sixteen as part of the manna gathering, food gathering on the Sabbath was prohibited. This part of the command came even before the prohibition of work in Exodus twenty. So, the Pharisees were right, and Jesus agreed with them, with considerations. Like what? (you might ask) Let's list them.

    Matthew 12:3-4
    He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Here Jesus implicates himself by citing an example of David "and his companions". And admits that they did what was unlawful for them to do. So, his reason implies their guilt for unlawful behavior. More of an agreement than a defense. Let's continue.

    Matthew 12:5
    Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    He does it again. Citing yet another example of Sabbath-breaking as a reason for what he and the disciples were doing. So, that's two.

    Where does Jesus say this isn't a violation of Sabbath law? (nowhere)
     
  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    What are you accusing me of?
     
  9. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    That a terrible thing to say about women and servants/employees. Profane labor?
    Or even about a person's work during the week. One's occupation is profane labor?
    Should we not work as if unto the Lord?

    Where is the wife in the Sabbath commandment in Exodus twenty?
    Everyone else is listed. Even the livestock. Can you find her?
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    There is not one "every week day 1 we meet for worship" in the NT.
    There is not one "week day one is the Lord's Day" in the NT

    Though we do have "the Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28 - as an indication of what "Lord's Day" would be.

    And we do have them "meeting every Sabbath" in the Synagogue for worship and Gospel preaching Acts 18:4 -- showing an "every Sabbath" activity of worship and Gospel preaching that we do not have for "week-day-1"

    If you could specify the confusing part - I would be happy to clarify
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    If the Jews were keeping week-day-1 each week because of Spring festivals -- it is news to me... and them.

    If they did not regard Lev 23 that defines spring festivals to be stating a weekly week-day-1 service as a "Sabbath" devoted to God - then it would be surprising that they or we should suddenly do that over a thousand years later - and argue that Lev 23 told us to do it... or created some doctrine for it.
     
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  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Neither - Jesus was "born under the law" Gal 4 - and was sinless. He was pointing out good things that can be done in compliance to God's Commandments.
     
  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    When was the law set aside from your perspective?
     
  14. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    You forgot one.
    Oh wait, never mind.
    Looks like the Ten Commandments were transitory. (temporary)

    2 Corinthians 3:6-11
    He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    What Law? "Do not take God's name in vain"??
    Or "keep Passover"??

    Which commandment is the "first commandment with a promise"??
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

    The Baptist Confession of Faith,
    the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
    D.L. Moody,
    R.C Sproul,
    Matthew Henry,
    Thomas Watson
    Eastern Orthodox Catechism
    The Catholic Catechism. :groupray:

    And of course 7th day groups

    Seventh-day Baptists
    Seventh-day Adventists
    (and 100's of others)

    Indeed I left out a bunch that I could have included in that list.

    Not to those denominations.

    Which is why they think the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise"

    2 Corinthians 3:7-11
    7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.


    Is not a statement saying "do not take God's name in vain" has been 'deleted' or "faded away"

    And that is why Paul continues to hammer away at the need of the saints of the NT to obey God's commandments ... for example the 5th commandment

    1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God"
    Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the first Commandment with a promise"
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Indeed. The enemies of Christ... the accusers of Christ... where falsely accusing Him of teaching/leading His disciples to live in violation/rebellion against the Law of God.

    Shall we "join them" in that accusation?
    I choose not to.

    Ever since the Sabbath was given in Eden in Genesis 2:1-3 and again reminded of it in Exodus chapter sixteen -- the "work" of gathering food to make a meal rather than using the "preparation day" for that task was forbidden. But in the example given in Matthew 12 the text does not say "the disciples went out to gather food for making a meal" -- in fact they are walking through the field not in a 'food gathering expedition' but rather on a walk.They do not collect wheat in bushels to bring home and refine into flour... rather they walk and pick a few heads of grain - rubbing them in their hands to break open the husk and eat a few of the grains.

    So "on the Sabbath" when you walk through a field or forest and pick a few berries to eat as you walk - it is not a sin.

    Christ is speaking before the cross - when by every measure the LAW of God was in full effect. He defines this innocent activity as - "not a sin". And of course in the NT "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Steve,

    If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD pointed to? Your mixing up God's ETERNAL law (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 in the OLD and NEW COVENANTS with the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

    The OLD COVENANT was made up of two sets of LAWS. These included God's LAW (10 Commandments) spoken and written by GOD himself to his people on two tables of stone and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT written and spoken to God's people by MOSES containing the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL laws for forgiveness of sin offerings for the SANCTUARY and PRIESTHOOD [Levitical].

    The Old Covenant included; The 10 Commandments and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT...

    EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

    and what you have left out ...

    EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

    DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

    DEUTERONOMY 29:21 [21] And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT that are WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

    EXODUS 24:7 [7], And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

    DEUTERONOMY 29 [21], And the LORD shall separate him to evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the COVENANT THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK OF THE LAW.

    DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26], Take this BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

    2 KINGS 23:2 [2], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT which was found in the house of the LORD.

    2 KINGS 23 [3], And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THIS COVENANT THAT WERE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK. And all the people stood to the covenant.

    2 KINGS 23 [21], And the king commanded all the people, saying, KEEP THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD your God, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THIS COVENANT.

    2 CHRONICLES 34:30 [30], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests, and the Levites, and all the people, great and small: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT that was found in the house of the LORD.

    2 CHRONICLES 34:32 [31] And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.

    yep its not just the 10 Commandments...

    ...............

    HEBREWS 9:1 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

    EPHESIANS 2:15 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby

    EZEKIEL 46:14 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

    NUMBERS 19:2 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

    HEBREWS 10:1 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

    What laws are written on the heart in the NEW COVENANT promise? It is not the MOSAIC laws for remission of sin...

    JEREMIAH [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:[32], NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt ; MY COVENANT WHICH THEY BROKE, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD:[33], But THIS SHALL BE MY COVENANT THAT I SHALL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISREAL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND I WILL WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE; [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    2 CORINTHIANS 3:2 [2], You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN THE FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART. (see all of 2 COR 3)

    The NEW COVENANT promise of LOVE is God's LAW (10 Commandments) written on the heart to LOVE through faith (ROMANS 13:8-10)

    ……………………………

    CONCLUSION; Jesus did not come to change or destroy GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments). It is through GOD's LAW that we have a KNOLWEDGE of what SIN is. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the books of the law and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE

    yep it is the SHADOW laws that are fulfilled in Christ. The OLD COVENANT is made up of God's 10 Commandments and the Shadow laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

    Sorry Steve, you have your shadow laws mixed up with God's eternal LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is if broken. * ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:11; 1 JOHN 3:4

    Hope this helps
     
  19. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Yet here you are Steve not even able to answer one of the 27 questions. There are 27 questions and they do indeed show if someone has God's WORD for their belief. You are only in bondage if you practicing sin *JOHN 8:31-36. JESUS came to save us from sin Steve, not to continue in sin.

    WHERE DOES IT SAY IN GOD'S WORD THAT...

    1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

    2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

    3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

    4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

    5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

    6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

    7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

    8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

    9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

    10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

    11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

    12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

    13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

    14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

    15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

    16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

    17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

    18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

    19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

    21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

    22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

    23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

    25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

    27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?


    If you cannot answer these questions then you may want to re-consider what it is you believe.

    ...........................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    If we brake any of God's commandments it is showing we do not LOVE God or our fellow man...

    This is why Jesus says....... If you LOVE me keep my COMMANDMENTS (John 14:15;15:10)

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

    May God bless you as you seek him through his Word :wave:
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    ranting, pejoratives and name-calling is not the same thing as actual Bible-based doctrine... you knew that right?

    Make compelling Bible-based arguments "instead".

    you make a flawed assault on God's Commandments that even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19 - C.H.Spurgeon and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19 -- have enough Bible basics to know not to do what you are doing.
     
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