• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Why Did D. M. Canright leave the Seventh-Day Adventists?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by Saint Steven, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +5,071
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    And you think Justin Martyr was a man of God and his Word is God's WORD why? Can't see him in God's WORD and some of what he seems to say directly undermines God's Word. Paul also tells us even in his time there were those trying to undermine the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:3-12; ACTS 20:29. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

    Does it worry you that you have to go to sources outside of the bible to support your tradition? Where does it say in God's WORD that God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? Wait, thats right there is no scripture that is why your trying to find sources outside of God's WORD right?

    This in itself should be of concern to you if you believe the scriptures are the Word of God especially considering God's 4th Commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is if broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4

    May God bless you as you seek him through his Word
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  2. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

    374
    +125
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Been there done this already, haven't we? - One of the most controversial issues, is the DAY OF WORSHIP

    Latin:

    "... Similiter et feriae a fando dicuntur, ob quam causam Silvester papa primus apud Romanos constituit ut dierum nomina quae antea secundum nomina deorum suorum vocabant, id est, Solis, Lunae, Martis, Mercurii, Veneris, Saturni, feria deinceps vocarent, id est, prima feria, secunda feria, tertia feria, quarta feria, quinta feria, sexta feria, quia in principio Genesis scriptum est quod Deus per singulos dies dixerit : prima, Fiat Lux; secunda, Fiat firmamentum; tertia, Producat terra herbam virentem, similiter, etc. Sabbatum autem antiquo legis vocabulo vocare praecepit, et primam feriam diem Dominicam, eo quod Dominus in illa resurrexit. Statuit autem idem papa ut otium sabbati magis in diem Dominicam transferretur, ut ea die a terrenis operibus ad laudandum Deum vacaremus, justa illud quod scriptum est : Vacate et videte, quoniam ego sum Deus (Psal. XLV). ..." - Beati Rabani Mauri, Fuldensis Abbatis et Moguntini Archiepiscopi, de Clericorum Institutione, ad Heistulphum Archiepiscopum; Libri Tres. (Anno 819.) Ad Fratres Fuldenses Epigramma Ejusdem; Liber Secundus, Caput XLVI. Column 361 (Left; PDF page 35) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....eistulphum_Archiepiscopum_Libri_Tres,_MLT.pdf

    "... The decree by Pope Sylvester I to call the days of the week feria was issued in the year 316 A.D. according to Medii ævi Kalendarium Or, Dates, Charters, and Customs of the Middle Ages, Volume Two, by Robert Thomas Hampson, published in London by H. K. Causten, 1841, entry on Day, page 66, and Feria, pages 137, 138. ..." - Exactly Which Pope Changed The Sabbath To Sunday?

    "... Pope Sylvester I (also Silvester, died 31 December 335), was Pope of the Catholic Church from 314 to his death in 335. ..." - Pope Sylvester I - Wikipedia

    Translated English (of the Latin above):

    "... Pope Sylvester first among the Romans ordered that the names of the days [of the week], which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, [the day] of the Sun, [the day] of the Moon, [the day] of Mars, [the day] of Mercury, [the day] of Jupiter, [the day] of Venus, [the day] of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he [Sylvester] ordered [them] to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, [to call] the first feria the "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose [from the dead], Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day [Sunday], in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God.7 ..." - Exactly Which Pope Changed The Sabbath To Sunday?

    Further:

    “...yet we find St. Cæsarius of Arles in the sixth century teaching that the holy Doctors of the Church had decreed that the whole glory of the Jewish Sabbath had been transferred to the Sunday, and that Christians must keep the Sunday holy in the same way as the Jews had been commanded to keep holy the Sabbath Day. … From the eight century the law began to be formulated as it exists at the present day, and the local councils forbade servile work, public buying and selling, pleading in the law courts, and the public and solemn taking of oaths. There is a large body of civil legislation on the Sunday rest side by side with the ecclesiastical. ...” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; Sunday] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sunday

    “... Jesus exercised his sovereign power to abrogate the sabbath law in at least some way. … The sabbath command is the only one of the Ten Commandments which can be altered in any way, because only it is a part of the ceremonial law. This is taught by the Roman Catechism issued after the Council of Trent:

    The other commandments of the Decalogue are precepts of the natural law, obligatory at all times and unalterable. Hence, after the abrogation of the Law of Moses, all the Commandments contained in the two tables are observed by Christians, not indeed because their observance is commanded by Moses, but because they are in conformity with nature which dictates obedience to them.

    This Commandment about the observance of the sabbath, on the other hand, considered as to the time appointed for its fulfillment, is not fixed and unalterable, but susceptible of change and belongs not to the moral, but the ceremonial law. Neither is it a principle of the natural law; we are not instructed by nature to give external worship to God on that day, rather than on any other. And in fact the sabbath was kept holy only from the time of Israel from the bondage of Pharaoh.

    The observance of the sabbath was to be abrogated at the same time as the other Hebrew rites and ceremonies, that is, at the death of Christ. . . .” [Roman Catholic Online Library; Quick Questions (1994)] - CATHOLIC LIBRARY: Quick Questions (1994)

    “... Today Jews and other groups who keep the sabbath, such as the Seventh-Day Adventists, continue to celebrate it from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. This way of reckoning time was not the only one in the ancient world. For example, the Romans reckoned days from midnight to midnight--the system we use today. … Sunday is often spoken of as "the Christian sabbath," but this is not a technical description. Sunday is not a strict replacement for the sabbath (which has been abolished), but a day the Church instituted to fulfill a parallel function. ...” [Roman Catholic Online Library; Quick Questions (1994)] - CATHOLIC LIBRARY: Quick Questions (1994)

    “...With regard to the exposition of this commandment, the faithful are to be carefully taught in what it accords with, and in what it differs from the others, in order that they may understand why Christians observe not the Sabbath, but the Lord's day. … all the commandments contained in the two tables are observed by Christians … whereas this commandment, if considered as to the time of its fulfillment, is not fixed and unalterable, but is susceptible of change, and belongs not to the moral but ceremonial Law. … ” [The Catechism of the Council of Trent published by command of Pope Pius The Fifth, translated into English by the Rev. J. Donovon, Professor, &c Royal College, Maynooth; Baltimore: Published by Lucas Brothers. No. 170 Market Street; Printed By James Young, Baltimore; On The Third Commandment; pg 264] - The catechism of the Council of Trent

    “...But the Church of God [Roman Catholic church] has in her wisdom ordained that the celebration of the Sabbath should be transferred to “the Lord's day:” …” [The Catechism of the Council of Trent; On The Third Commandment; pg 267] - The catechism of the Council of Trent

    The catechism of the Council of Trent : Catholic Church : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

    “...Now the Scriptures alone do not contain all the truths which a Christian is bound to believe, nor do they explicitly enjoin all the duties which he is obliged to practice. Not to mention other examples, is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify. ...” [The Faith Of Our Fathers “Being a Plain Exposition and Vindication of the Church Founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ” By James Cardinal Gibbons; Archbishop of Baltimore, Ninety-third Carefully Revised and Enlarged Edition; John Murphy Company; Publishers; Baltimore, MD. New York; R. & T. Washbourne, Ltd.; 10 Paternoster Row, London, and at Manchester.; Birmingham and Glascow; 1917; Chapter VIII [8]. The Church And The Bible; Online Pg 97, also side notation pagination as [089]] - http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27435/27435-pdf.pdf

    That is only one record, of a specific 'catholic' 'synod' in the mid 300's (circa 363, the 4th Cent.).

    "... The Laodicea at which the Synod met is Laodicea in Phrygia Pacatiana, also called Laodicea ad Lycum, and to be carefully distinguished from the Laodicea in Syria. ..." - CHURCH FATHERS: Synod of Laodicea (4th Century)

    "... The Council of Laodicea was a regional synod of approximately thirty clerics from Asia Minor that assembled about 363–364 AD in Laodicea, Phrygia Pacatiana. ..." - Council of Laodicea - Wikipedia

    It was in 'turkey'. True, yet if you consider the material in those 'canons', you will see that their decisions were based upon things that already existed previously.

    Do you know why 'canon XXIX' was made?

    Canon 16 'XVI' (Laodicea):

    "The Gospels are to be read on the Sabbath [i.e. Saturday], with the other Scriptures.

    ... Neander (Kirchengesch., 2d ed., vol. iij., p. 565 et seq.) suggests ... that it was the custom in many parts of the ancient Church to keep every Saturday as a feast in commemoration of the Creation. ...

    ... Among the Greeks the Sabbath was kept ..." - CHURCH FATHERS: Synod of Laodicea (4th Century)

    The 'pope' of Rome (there were other 'popes'), didn't have to be at Laodicea as Sylvester I had already issued a statement on the thing before this 'synod'.

    True. So?

    You just stretched the evidence you gave beyond what it gives.

    I saw how the source you used was stretched to support your a priori.

    Yet, see the evidence I provided is against your stretching?
     
  3. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

    374
    +125
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    That particular quotation is actually a "forged appendix" (evidence):

    http://www.atsjats.org/publication/view/70

    Wouldn't be the first time, of forgery and tampering:

    Sunday Fraud: Church "Fathers" on the Lord's Day

    HISTORY OF SABBATH AND THE FIRST DAY--Forged Evidences

    Sinaiticus -
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  4. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,896
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    How many days per week do you spend on "pagan" time?
     
  5. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,896
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    God used the wound to heal him. He was set free from the tyranny of Sabbatarianism.
     
  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +5,071
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    There is no tyranny in LOVE. If you are in Christ the Sabbath is a delight because you are free in God's Spirit to walk as he walked and love is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who believe.

    There is only confusion in sin as sin is the transgression of God's Law. God's 4th commandment being one of the 10 that gives us a knowledge of what sin is. If we break any of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not enter into God's kingdom.

    Yep many are going to be dissappointed come judgment day when Jesus will say depart from me you who practice sin I never knew you. Many trees that have no fruit in that day will be cast down and thrown into the fire. Salvation is from sin not to continue in it.
     
  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,896
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Walk as he walked?

    John 5:18
    For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

    John 9:16
    Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.” But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.
     
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +5,071
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    So in your view Steve JESUS broke the Sabbath commandments and sinned? If that was the case we are all lost because in your view of the scriptures JESUS is not our perfect sacrifice because he was a sinner. If JESUS was a sinner how could he die for our sins when he would have had to die for his own?

    Luckily God's WORD teaches no such thing. JESUS knew no sin...

    2 CORINTHIANS 5:21 For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    If JESUS knew no sin then he did not break the Sabbath or any other of God's commandments, lets see why...

    In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2; Luke 6:1-2).

    Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matthew 12:12)

    Jesus did God's WORK on the Sabbath and so should we everyday but God's WORK is not the work we are commanded NOT to do on God's Sabbath for it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.

    Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?

    Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

    GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT

    Exodus 20
    8,
    Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
    9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
    10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
    11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

    Doing GOD'S WORK is NOT what the 4th Commandment is talking about please read it.

    God's 4th Commandments says we are NOT to do OUR OWN WORK. Yep NO secular business or paid work, no unnecessary domestic work, no buying and selling, shopping. This can be done on the other days of the week. God has made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY and we are to REST in HIM by FAITH in the LORD of the SABBATH. This is the 4th Commandment and one of the God's 10.

    .......................

    SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    .......................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +5,071
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Friends something to think about. Please show me one scripture from God's Word that answers one question below? You do not have to answer these questions here if you do not wish to. Just prayerfully and honestly ask yourself these questions and let God guide you. What have you got to lose?

    WHERE DOES IT SAY IN GOD'S WORD THAT...

    1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

    2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

    3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

    4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

    5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

    6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

    7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

    8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

    9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

    10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

    11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

    12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

    13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

    14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

    15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

    16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

    17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

    18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

    19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

    21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

    22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

    23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

    25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

    27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?


    If you cannot answer these questions then you may want to re-consider what it is you believe.

    ...........................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    If we brake any of God's commandments it is showing we do not LOVE God or our fellow man...

    This is why Jesus says....... If you LOVE me keep my COMMANDMENTS (John 14:15;15:10)

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

    May God bless you as you seek him through his Word :wave:
     
  10. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

    374
    +125
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Yes, that is what is scripture says.

    1Jn_2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    See Luke 4:14-19.

    The Pharisees were upset that Jesus had healed a man on the sabbath (see context).

    John the Apostle writes, that this showed how Jesus disregarded the Pharisaical traditions, and cut free, "broke" free, loosed, untied, the Sabbath of the actual commandment of God (Exodus 20:8-11) from those man-made regulations which actually transgressed the commandment itself. Please notice I did not say the Pharisees were saying this. John is making a specific point about Jesus healing in contrast to the Pharisees murderous intents in relation to the Sabbath. Jesus truly honoured it, setting it back in its proper light, and abolishing the darkness by which the devil, through 'religious' men, had clouded it with.

    The word that John (inspired of the Holy Ghost) uses is not the word for "transgression" of God's law. It is not Koine Greek, "αμαρτιαν" ([h]amartia), nor "ανομια" (a-nomia).

    John 5:18, this word for “broken” is "ελυεν" G3089 V-IAI-3S [Grk. Trans. = eleun] and, generally meaning 'loosed' [as in, 'untied', 'unbound', 'set free'], can be seen in other passages, like:

    loose, 15

    Mat_16:19, Mat_18:18, Mar_11:2 (2), Mar_11:4, Luk_13:15, Luk_19:30-31 (2), Luk_19:33, Joh_11:44, Act_24:25-26 (2), Rev_5:2, Rev_5:5, Rev_9:14

    loosed, 10

    Mat_16:19, Mat_18:18, Mar_7:35, Luk_13:16, Act_2:24, Act_22:30, 1Co_7:27, Rev_9:15, Rev_20:3, Rev_20:7

    broken, 7

    Joh_5:18, Joh_7:23, Joh_10:35, Act_13:43, Act_27:41, Act_27:44, Eph_2:14

    unloose, 3

    Mar_1:7, Luk_3:16, Joh_1:27

    destroy, 2

    Joh_2:19, 1Jo_3:8

    dissolved, 2

    2Pe_3:11-12 (2)

    loosing, 2

    Mar_11:5, Luk_19:33

    break, 1

    Mat_5:19

    melt, 1

    2Pe_3:10

    off, 1

    Act_7:33

    put, 1

    Act_7:33 (2)

    Therefore did Jesus transgress, destroy, eliminate (etc) the Sabbath of the Commandment? No. He clearly defends His position from Scripture upholding the Sabbath. Did Jesus “dissolve” the Sabbath? Again, No, otherwise why defend His actions from Scripture about the appropriateness of what was permissible in/on the Sabbath? Did Jesus actually “break” the Sabbath? No, for that would have been sin [1 John 3:4, etc], and would have been contrary to Jesus' own mission as stated in Prophecy [Isaiah 42:21], in which He would “magnify” the Law and make it “honourable”, not dishonourable or lessened. Therefore, what does this word “broken” mean in the context of the Pharisaical understanding? Jesus ignored their ma-made traditions which placed heavy “burdens” upon Sabbath, which God never gave:

    Mat_23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

    Jesus therefore indeed “broke” the Sabbath free of these horrendous selfish regulations which the Pharisees, etc had burdened it with, but never ever would break/transgress the Sabbath as commanded to all men (Exodus 20:8-11). In effect, what Jesus did was give rest back to the people on Sabbath. :) He loosed their man-made restrictions by example, untied those toilsome knots, and set it free to be obeyed in righteousness. See Isaiah 58, even contexually in regards the Sabbath:

    Isa_58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

    Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

    Mat_11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

    Exo_33:14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

    Who do you believe, them or Jesus?

    Isaiah 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable.

    John 15:10 "... I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."

    The corrupted and self-centered Religious leaders, these particular pharisees, etc were the ones who had the spirit of their father the devil [John 8:44], being satan, the accuser [Revelation 12:10], and accused Jesus of many things, falsely, and in misunderstanding, even as they had of John the Baptist [the herald of the First Advent], for in their hearts they were the murderers, transgressing the commandments, they were the true Sabbath breakers, while Christ Jesus restored it to what it was always meant to be:

    Matthew 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

    Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.

    They were accusers of Him who is without sin, the innocent blood:

    John 18:29 Pilate then went out unto them, and said, What accusation bring ye against this man?

    They accused Him of Blasphemy:

    Matthew 26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

    Mark 14:64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

    John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

    They falsely accused Jesus of being a "winebibber", a "drunkard" and "gluttonous":

    Matthew 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

    Luke 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

    They falsely accused Him of being devil possessed:

    Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

    John 7:20 The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?

    John 8:48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

    John 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

    John 10:20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

    John 10:21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

    They falsely accused Him of casting out devils by the devil:

    Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

    They falsely accused Him of being a seditious rebel, like Barabbas, perverting the nation:

    Luke 23:2 And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this [fellow] perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.

    Luke 23:5 And they were the more fierce, saying, He stirreth up the people, teaching throughout all Jewry, beginning from Galilee to this place.

    They falsely accused Him of being not of God:

    John 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.

    Yet, Jesus said of Himself:

    John 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

    Others said, even as True witnesses [compared to the false witnesses], even later His own enemies:

    "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners" [Hebrews 7:26]

    that "holy thing" [Luke 1:35]

    and "holy child" [Acts 4:27,30]

    born of the "Holy Ghost" [Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35],

    where even though He came in the likeness [Romans 8:3; Philippians 2:7; etc] of sinful flesh, yet He was without sin:

    "...lamb shall be without blemish..." [Exodus 12:5]

    "… But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none." [Matthew 26:60]

    "...the innocent blood..." [Matthew 27:4]

    "...For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. ..." [Matthew 27:18]

    "… Have thou nothing to do with that just man …" [Matthew 27:19]

    "… Why, what evil hath he done? …" [Matthew 27:23]

    "… I am innocent of the blood of this just person …" [Matthew 27:24]

    "The said Pilate … I find no fault in this man.” [Luke 23:4]

    "… Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:" [Luke 23:14]

    "… what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him ..." [Luke 23:22]

    "...lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him." [Luke 23:15]

    "...this man hath done nothing amiss." [Luke 23:41]

    "… Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man." [Luke 23:47]

    "Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth." [John 9:31]

    "...I have kept my Father's commandments..." [John 15:10]

    "...I find in him no fault [at all]." [John 18:38]

    "...I find no fault in him." [John 19:4]

    "...I find no fault in him." [John 19:6]

    "...the obedience of one..." [Romans 5:19]

    "...who knew no sin..." [2 Corinthians 5:21]

    "...without sin." [Hebrews 4:15]

    "...[who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners..." [Hebrews 7:26]

    "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" [1 Peter 2:22]

    "...in him is no sin." [1 John 3:5]

    "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God..." [Hebrews 9:4;p]

    The scripture declares who the real sinners and Sabbath breakers were, it was those murderous and plotting pharisees, who while seeking to accuse Jesus, to find fault with Him, and plotted against Him how they might overcome Him, and to kill Jesus upon the Sabbath are seen in their stark and hateful contrast to the compassionate, loving restorer and Saviour of life, Jesus Christ, who in His work, healed, delivered, saved, restored, gave rest to those in pain, suffering, mourning, shewing mercy, demonstrating the fulfillment of love, etc upon the Sabbath, showing all mankind the perfect loving example of what True Sabbath keeping was to be.

    Jesus healed a man lame in his legs for 38 years [John 5:5] [even as Israel in the wilderness for 38 years; Deuteronomy 2:14], because of sin. Jesus is looking to heal our walk upon the Sabbath, leading us back in the Way of God, His Commandments, Honouring our Father in Heaven, calling the Sabbath a delight, Honourable, Honouring Him in it [Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 20:12], that we may be able to walk once more with Him upon the Sabbath in righteousness, as it was from Creation.

    Jesus healed a man with a withered hand in the gathering upon Sabbath [Matthew 12:9-15; Mark 3:1-6; Luke 6:6-11], and it was the "right hand" [thus a connection to the Seal and Mark]. This man, a church [Acts 7:38] goer, was crippled in his right hand, thus as we see, he represents those in the church whose right hand is withered, their obedience to the Commandments of God is withered, crippled, their actions enfeebled in true service, and yet Jesus would come to them and heal their limp and lifeless service to Him, and make it vibrant again. The right hand is also connected to God's Law, being then also connected to the Seal of the Living God, and also to the Mark of the Beast, for those who take the Mark of the Beast, shall indeed receive a crippling mark in the right hand, for they will have forsaken the right way, and chosen the commandments of men over the Commandments of God, and remain as sinners in the bondage, chains of sin.

    Jesus healed a blind man [John 9:1-41] on the Sabbath, restoring the sight not only physically, but also spiritually, so that He could not only see the Saviour physically, but also see that He was truly the Saviour, the Messiah, the Christ, the sent of God. As it is written, Laodicea is blind [Revelation 3:17-18], and needs also the restoring and saving power of Jesus Christ to heal them, from their own blindness, that they may see the beauty of Christ Jesus, the LORD of the Sabbath, and what ought needs be done therein. Turn to Isaiah 58 and Isaiah 61 and Job 29, and read wherein the healing of the sight needs to happen, so that the blind may see again the glory of the LORD, and see their fellow man, lost in sin and in suffering, and take the Everlasting Gospel to them. Jesus did this very thing in Luke 4:17-32]. If any choose to remain blind as the pharisees of old, they will fall into the ditch, for that ditch, spiritually, is the "whore" [Proverbs 23:27], and her harlot daughters, and that "whore" is found in Revelation 17:1-18, Revelation 19:2. Her mark is the false sabbath - "sunday". God's Seal is the 7th Day of which the Holy Spirit seals those who love God and keep His Commandments with.

    Jesus is looking to restore the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God to this world [as so many have forgotten it, trample upon its sacred hours, and upon Him who makes it Holy], and to give them rest, from sin [1 John 3:4].

    It truly is amazing, that those that fight and war against God and resist Him in keeping the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD [Jesus] thy God Holy, thus desecrating it, do all in their power to tear that single Holy Commandment from the heart of God's Law, and say all manner of things in contradiction to one another, presenting all manner of "lame" excuses, arguments to continue in sin [1 John 3:4] in spite of the grace of God [Romans 6:1], but none of them in that treasonous apostasy [against the Kingdom, Law of God's own government] and open rebellion, agree with one another over it, except in their hatred of it, even as they had over the LORD of it:

    Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put Him to death; (Matthew 26:59)

    But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, [yet] found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, (Matthew 26:60)

    For many bare false witness against Him, but their witness agreed not together. (Mark 14:56)

    And there arose certain, and bare false witness against Him, saying, (Mark 14:57)

    But neither so did their witness agree together. (Mark 14:59)
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  11. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,896
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    What is the most basic violation of the Sabbath?
    Working on the Sabbath, right?
    What did Jesus say about that?

    John 5:16-18
    So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
     
  12. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,896
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Obsolete? Yes.

    Hebrews 8:7, 13
    7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
    13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

    Exodus 34:28
    Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenantthe Ten Commandments.

    Deuteronomy 4:13
    He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.

    2 Corinthians 3:6-11
    6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

    Galatians 3:23-25
    Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
     
  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,896
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    27 loaded questions that confirm what I believe. I believe the SDA is wrong.
    A strawman army of 27 trained to put the unwary in bondage to the law.
    The Apostle Peter said it best.

    Acts 15:10
    Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?
     
  14. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

    374
    +125
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Difference of work.

    [1] Holy.

    [2] Profane/common.

    Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    Thus, sacred work which sustains life, restrores, heals, comforts is in harmony with the Commandment, as Jesus said:

    Mat_12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

    Joh 5:13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.

    If God stopped sustaining life on sabbath, all would perish. Every breath that man takes is sustained by God.

    Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
    Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
    Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
    Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    See Isaiah 58.
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,896
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Is it wrong to "desecrate the Sabbath"?
    What did Jesus do for a living?
    What was his occupation?

    And what about us? Are we not "a royal priesthood"?
    Always about the work of the Lord. Thus innocent as well.
    Even though we too "desecrate the Sabbath".

    Matthew 12:5
    Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

    1 Peter 2:9
    But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  16. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

    374
    +125
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Hopscotch and circles.

    You have a confusion on what is the 'old covenant'. The 'old covenant' is obsolete (we've said it numerous times now). Not the dispute. It's your personal definition of what the 'old covenant' is, everytime you read the word 'covenant' in relation to Mt. Sinai, that is in dispute with what is written in Exodus 19:8; Hebrews 8:6-9.

    All true, not in question. The matter is the definition you have, versus what Hebrews 8 is speaking about.

    Here is God's Covenant ("His", "my"), the eternal Ten Commandments:

    Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

    Here is the 'old covenant', with their "promises", which were "faulty":

    Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

    Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
    Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
    Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
    Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

    Thus Exodus 19:8 is the agreement (covenant) they made by their promise in relation to God's "If", "then".

    Yes, neither of those texts say that the Ten Commandments are "their" covenant, neither does it say that the Ten Commandments are the 'old covenant' does it? Be honest with yourself and the text please.

    The Ten Commandments are God's Covenant. You even highlighted the words "His" "covenant".

    There are two glories spoen of in 2 Corinthians 3.

    [1] the glory of the law of God

    [2] the glory of Moses face.

    The context and the Koine Greek endings demonstrate that the 2n glory was "done away" with.

    Look:

    2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
    2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
    2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
    2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
    2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

    There are several things in 2 Corinthians 3.

    [1] Law (doesn't change, stays, "remaineth")

    [2] ministration (changes), how the Law is administered

    [3] glories (differing glories)

    The glory of the Law as seen in Moses face goes away

    the glory of the Law in the life and face of Jesus Christ remaineth and is more glorious.

    2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
    2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
    2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

    [4] Mediator (differing mediators)

    Moses ('old covenant'; Exodus 19:8)

    Jesus (eternal covenant; Malachi 2:5; Jeremiah 31; Hebrews 8, etc)

    [5] location (differing locations)

    tables of stone

    tables of the fleshy heart (the brain is two hemispheres, two tables)

    [6] Holy Ghost (doesn't change)

    The Law of God brings death, why?

    Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Jas_1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Rom_7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

    But it was ordained to Life, not death.

    Through the Holy Ghost, who writes the "my (God's) law" upon the heart, the Law is able to be fulfilled in the life:

    Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


    The Law of God (Ten Commandments) helps to keep sin, sinners in check, through the death penalty. It is a posted 'stop' sign. A witness for the guilt of man.

    Faith does not remove obedience to God's law. It simply changes the relationship to God, from condemnation (death) to probation (life).

    Law cannot deliver from sin (1 John 3:4), it only points out sin (1 John 3:4) and condemns sin (1 John 3:4).

    Christ Jesus deilvers (Matthew 1:21) from sin (1 John 3:4), and thus brings us to obedience to the Law in that grace.

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
    Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
     
  17. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,896
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Personal definition?
    I quoted Exodus and Deuteronomy.
    I assure you that I am not God. (nice compliment though, thanks)

    Exodus 34:28
    Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenantthe Ten Commandments.

    Deuteronomy 4:13
    He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.
     
  18. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +7,896
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    That's a ridiculous assertion. That the old testament should say it is the old covenant. As if that was common knowledge at the time of the writing. Be honest with myself? You should take your own advice.
     
  19. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

    374
    +125
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Yes.

    You misundertand Matthew 12. See below.

    Physician, who healed the hurt.

    Mat_9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
    Mar_2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
    Luk_4:23 And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.
    Luk_5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

    Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
    Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
    Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
    Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    Shepherd, who was taking care of the wounded ones.

    Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

    Mat_26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

    Mar_14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

    etc.

    Mat_12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

    Thus as the context was shown you before, Jesus healed on sabbath, which is the sacred work of restoration, healing, deliverance. This is keeping the commandment as Jesus Himself said.

    See above. He was also highest Messenger of the Father, the Apostle (Hebrews 3:1), etc.

    Of course. Not in question. I have and others have, stated this before and so state it now (again)

    Yes, we should be, but transgression of the commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is not being about the Lord's work, but the devils':

    1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    Innocence is defined by scripture, yes?

    Job_33:9 I am clean without transgression, I am innocent; neither is there iniquity in me.

    As stated, you have misunderstood Matthew 12 and misapplied the words.

    The accusation was from the Pharisees to which Jesus responds to by using their definition of transgression against them.

    Jesus used their definition of "desecrate".

    Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
    Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

    There is no such law in all of scripture. The Pharisees just made it up. Jesus then uses two examples from scripture, and turns their definition against them.

    Pharisees accused (as their father, the devil).

    Jesus said the disciples hadn't actually transgressed anything, even though the Pharisees made up a law on the spot and attempted justification by saying it was in the law, when it wasn't.

    Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

    The disciples were "guiltless" from the beginning.

    Indeed, as Peter is citing Exodus:

    Exo_19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

    Which is in the context of the Ten Commandments, Exodus 20:1-17.

    Just as James speaks of:

    Jas_2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

    Just as Paul speaks of:

    Rom_7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

    The Law of God is "light":

    Pro_6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
     
  20. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

    374
    +125
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    You are simply eisegeting your definition of 'old covenant' everytime you read 'covenant', around Mt. Sinai into the text. It doesn't say what you think it says.

    I have showed you (several times) it isn't so.

    See:

    Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Go on and do a word substitution on the words "law" with "old covenant".

    Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the [old covenant] through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the [old covenant].

    Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my [old covenant] in their inward parts, and write [the old covenant] in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
     
Loading...