• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

Why Christ will NEVER again rule from Judah.

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by charlesj, Mar 4, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +1
    Jeremiah 22:28-30
    28 Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?
    29 O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.
    30 Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.

    This is the prophecy of the man called “Coniah” – an abbreviation of “Jeconiah,” his real name.
    Jeremiah, the prophet of our Lord, said that NO man of his seed should prosper sitting on David’s throne and ruling any more in Judah.
    You may ask the question “what does this do with Christ sitting on David’s throne?”
    Just this – Jesus Christ is in the bloodline of Coniah! When the Lord said “write this man childless,” it does not mean that Coniah was congenitally childless – the names of his sons are given in the Old Testament record, as well as the New Testament genealogies. Coniah had sons; he was not childless physically; but the Lord said, “write this man childless.”
    That meant he should not have a successor on David’s throne; that Coniah would be the last man to occupy the fleshly throne of David. Zedekiah, son of Coniah, who was appointed to the throne of Nebuchadnezzar, was a servant of the king of Babylon. Young Zedekiah was the prince and representative of Nebuchadnezar, but did not succeed to the throne of David. With Coniah David’s throne became extinct - - blotted out forever!

    Coniah identified by scripture:

    Jeremiah 24:1
    The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.
    Here in Jeremiah we see that Jeconiah (Coniah) was the son of Jehoiakim, king of Judah.

    1 Chronicles 3:16
    16 And the sons of Jehoiakim: Jeconiah his son, Zedekiah his son.

    Now, we know who Coniah was and that he was not congenitally childless. But he was childless with the respect to the throne in Judah; in him the EARTHLY throne of David ceased; there was no seed after him on David’s throne. Zedekiah, though a son of Jeconiah, became the prince of Nebuchadnezzar, with no right to the throne and it was overturned. We see this in Ezekiah 21:

    Ezekiel 21:25-27
    25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, 26 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high. 27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.

    God took him off the throne and said one day, somone(Christ) would come whose right it was to it and rule, but NOT ON EARTH, for no man of Coniah’s seed, sitting upon the throne of David, will prosper any more ruling in Judah.
    Jesus Christ, the One to come, alone had the right to David’s throne, and that only in the antitypical sense; not the earthly, but the spiritual throne of David – for no man of Coniah’s seed could “prosper,” sitting and ruling on David’s throne any more in Judah.
    Coniah further identified: (Comparisons of Old with New Testaments) Compare:
    1 Chronicles 3:16 with Matthew 1:12

    Luke 3:27 (ASV)
    27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri,

    I have shown you the text that list the seed of Coniah (Jeconiah) which is in the bloodline of Christ. Remember, any “version” is called a “translation,” while the Greek and Hebrew texts are referred to as “manuscripts.” The versions (KJV, ASV, NIV, etc. etc.) will list the genealogies spelling them in a different ways. Your job is to compare the genealogy with the seed of each individual.
    The bottom line is Jesus is of the seed of Coniah!

    The genealogy of Matthew brings the lineage of Christ from Coniah, through Sheltiel, or Salathiel, depending on which version is used.

    In your study, notice that Salathiel, or Shealtiel was either the same man or else they were brothers, for Jeconiah (Coniah) ws the father of both. They both had the son, Zorobbabel (or Zerubbabel). Anyway you look at it, Jesus Christ was of the seed of Coniah. And no man ruling on the throne of David would prosper ruling in Judah any longer!

    The purpose of the genealogies, Matthew and Luke, is to establish both the fleshly and legal connection of Jesus Christ – one through Mary, the other through Joseph – thus proving His legal and regal right as an heir to the throne of David.
    Now since Christ is of the seed of Coniah, and no man of his seed can sit on David’s throne and rule any more in Judah, it follows that Jesus Christ cannot occupy the throne of David on earth. But the prophets said that Jesus Christ, the son of David, should occupy David’s throne. Since it cannot be done on earth, it follows that Jesus would occupy David’s throne not on earth, but in heaven! And that is exactly what Peter affirms:

    Acts 2:29-31
    29 “Fellow Israelites, I may say to you confidently of our ancestor David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.30 Since he was a prophet, he knew that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would put one of his descendants on his throne.31 Foreseeing this, David spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, saying,
    ‘He was not abandoned to Hades,
    nor did his flesh experience corruption.’

    Christ is ruling at this time on the throne of David, in heaven!

    May the Lord bless you as you study His Word.

    Your servant in Christ, Jesus,
    Shalom,
    charlesj
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. solo66 man

    solo66 man Well-Known Member

    +2
    So, now by saying this, you are denying that Christ is the Messiah. How can He be the King of the Jews, which why he came in the first place, when He has no right to the throne?
     
  3. Me4him

    Me4him New Member

    31
    +0
    Re 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in.... "MY THRONE"...,

    even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in....HIS THRONE".

    Mt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration...

    "when the Son of man shall sit in the..."THRONE OF HIS GLORY",...

    ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    In heaven Jesus sits on the "RIGHT HAND", not on the "FATHER'S THRONE".

    In Jerusalem, during both the Millennium and "New earth" is the "ONLY PLACE" Jesus sits on "HIS THRONE".
     
  4. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +1

    You must have missed my point, sorry. Christ is reigning at this time on the Throne of David, He is King now!
    What I wrote shows that Jesus is in the blood line of Coniah. The prophet Jeremiah said that no man could rule in Judah any longer of the seed of Coniah. The premillennialist has a problem with this because they teach
    that He will rule & reign out of Jerusalem 1000 yrs. This is an error on their part.

    your servaint in Messiah, King Jesus,
    charlesj
     
  5. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +1
    To ME4HIM:
    I looked at your reply to my post and I wondered, "where do I start?"

    Is David's throne God's (The Father)?
    Is Christ's throne God's(The Father)?

    ME4HIM, the Father owns all things, all thones. The scripture says that Christ will sit on David's throne. Whose throne is it, is it David's or is it the Fathers? David's throne is really the Father's throne, but Christ *is*(NOW) sitting on it.

    You said, "...in Jerusalem, during both the Millennium and 'New earth' is the ONLY PLACE Jesus sits on 'HIS THRONE.'

    I have three questions:
    1. Where does it say that there will be a Millennium?

    2. Where does it say that there will be a "New earth?"

    3. What about the prophecy of Jeremiah, Jer 22:28-30?

    Your servant in Messiah, Jesus,
    charlesj
     
  6. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
    +0
    He is? reigning NOW? King? Now? Thats a new one. If He's a ruler where are His subjects?
    If He's king now He's not doing a very good job.
     
  7. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +1
    Christ's Throne on EARTH?

    What kind of throne does the Lord Jesus Christ occupy -- literal or spiritual?
    The pope of the Roman Catholic Church occupies a literal throne and rules the Roman Catholic world. The queen of England sits on a literal throne and rules Britain and her dominions. Is this what Christ will do? Shall Jesus return to this earth and occupy a literal throne like the pope or the queen?
    If Christ were to sit on a literal earthly throne He would thereby become a tribal king, a local Christ, on a local throne, with a local address. That would call for the reincarnation of the Son of God in this world -- THE THING THAT PAUL DECLARES WILL NEVER BE!

    2 Corinthians 5:15-17
    15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

    We are not to know Him NO LONGER according to the flesh -- NEVER AGAIN! Jesus dwelt in the flesh once, seen and known of men, in that fleshly state; but Paul says, "we have known Christ according to the flesh, YET NOW WE KNOW HIM THUS NO LONGER . . ." Never again after the flesh!

    The millennial theory calls for the false doctrine of reincarnation -- unless they are willing to argue that Jesus and the saints will inhabit this PHYSICAL world in spiritual bodies -- a spiritual king sitting on a carnal throne -- and spiritual saints inhabiting and dwelling on a mundane sphere. That would be an earthly state robbed of all earthliness, a conglomeration of the spiritual and the corporeal. He is a slow student who does not see the error in the literal interpretation, and in the light of these facts the casual observer can see the theory begin to do the vanishing act.

    But, the premillennialist contends that this literal throne of Christ will be on earth! Stephen said, quoting from the prophet Isaiah:
    Acts 7:48-49
    48 “However, the Most High does not live in houses made by men. As the prophet says:
    49 ”‘Heaven is my throne,
    and the earth is my footstool.
    What kind of house will you build for me?
    says the Lord.
    Or where will my resting place be?

    The millennialist wants to put Christ (God) on earth with a man made temple ruling on the physical earth. They want to put Him on His FOOTSTOOL.

    Paul said that Christ is reigning from heaven and will reign from heaven until the last enemy is destroyed, death. 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
    24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

    The millennialist would have Christ to reign from heaven until death is destroyed, then the end comes, then Christ hands the kingdom back to the Father, then comes to earth to reign again for a 1000 years in a place (Jerusalem) that the prophets said He wouldn't . That would require Christ to hand the kingdom back to the Father and then the Father hand it back to Christ.

    Furthermore, they insist that this throne shall be in Palestine, in old Judea, though God said through the prophet Jeremiah (22:30) that no descendant could prosper sitting and ruling on David's throne any more in Judah.

    28Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not? 29O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. 30Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah. (Christ is in the bloodline of Conaih. Conaih = Jeconiah)

    The premillennialist claim that the locality of this throne will be in Jerusalem, where the temple will be rebuilt, even though the fact that the Lord said Jerusalem IS NOT THE PLACE WHERE MEN SHALL WORSHIP:
    John 4:20-24
    20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
    21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

    They would have the throne of His glory placed here on earth, here in the world, though Jesus plainly stated:
    John 18:36
    36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

    They want the throne on earth when God says it is in heaven; they want the throne in Judea, where God said no occupant of the seed of Coniah would ever prosper sitting and ruling any longer (Jer 22:30) in Judea; they want the throne in Jerusalem where Jesus said His worship ought NOT to be; they want it in the world, though Jesus said His kingdom was NOT of this world --- can you beat that? For misinterpretation, misapplication and perversion, you cannot beat it.


    Your servant in Messiah, Jesus
    charlesj
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...