Why Believers have the Law of Moses written on the heart under New Covenant

[Devin P]

Nothing (pre or post) in the OT applies to the Christian when it comes to salvation.

Well I'm sorry you think that, but the apostles and Jesus himself say otherwise.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Correction -- Devin said "justified by law" then you "changed it" to something else as if to oppose Romans 3:31


....the law is great no doubt.... we will “find ourselves keeping the law” by the Holy Spirit working IN us....trusting God to work in us from the inside out is how we are “transferred” into the image of Jesus.


Rebellion against God's Word is not the path to heaven according to Paul in 1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

So “trusting God to transform us” is rebellion? Paul said that we are SAVED by trusting....I think I will follow Paul as he follows Christ...time to shake the dust off my feet... est of luck to you BobRyan

 

[Devin P]

So “trusting God to transform us” is rebellion? Paul said that we are SAVED by trusting....I think I will follow Paul as he follows Christ...time to shake the dust off my feet... est of luck to you BobRyan

No, trusting God isn't rebellion, but if the "spirit" you're following causes you to rebel against God's word, then you're not following the spirit of our Creator.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 -
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

His Spirit will cause you to desire to obey His Holy Law.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

If your mind isn't desiring to be subject to His law, then you haven't yet been purified by His Spirit entirely. You desire to obey Him, and follow Him, and that's a beautiful thing, but you've been led astray by the false doctrines of men, the commandments of men, and the traditions of our fathers. It's why faith without works is dead, and why the doers of the law are justified and not just the hearers.

 

[HARK!]

I would say Matt 6:15 is good advice, not a commandment; one has to be careful to not be like the Jews and finish up with 600 Laws instead of ten

What about this one?:

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am Yahweh.

It looks like a direct command to me.

 

[Bob S]

Well I'm sorry you think that, but the apostles and Jesus himself say otherwise.

Where? Anything you might lead me to prior to the death of Jesus on the Cross was said by Jesus to those under the law. The law could not save one soul because it was not about salvation. Ex19:5-6 After the Cross Christians are not under the Torah that Christ fulfilled. We do not need an earthly priest to come between God and our salvation. Jesus is our advocate. Paul tells us the law ended with Jesus. Gal3:19

 

[HARK!]

Where? Anything you might lead me to prior to the death of Jesus on the Cross was said by Jesus to those under the law. The law could not save one soul because it was not about salvation. Ex19:5-6 After the Cross Christians are not under the Torah that Christ fulfilled. We do not need an earthly priest to come between God and our salvation. Jesus is our advocate. Paul tells us the law ended with Jesus. Gal3:19

Peter recognized that the writings of Paul could be difficult to comprehend.

2Peter 3 (CLV)http://lovewins.us/bible/CLV/2 Peter 3:15

15 And be deeming the patience of our Lord salvation, according as our beloved brother Paul also writes to you, according to the wisdom given to him, 16 as also in all the epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to apprehend, which the unlearned and unstable are twisting, as the rest of the scriptures also, to their own destruction."

Did Paul preach that the law was abolished?http://lovewins.us/bible/CLV/Romans 3:31

Roman 3: (CLV)

31 Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? MAY IT NOT BE COMING TO THAT! Nay, we are sustaining law."

 

[Devin P]

Where? Anything you might lead me to prior to the death of Jesus on the Cross was said by Jesus to those under the law. The law could not save one soul because it was not about salvation. Ex19:5-6 After the Cross Christians are not under the Torah that Christ fulfilled. We do not need an earthly priest to come between God and our salvation. Jesus is our advocate. Paul tells us the law ended with Jesus. Gal3:19

The fact that Paul and Peter kept the law, the feast days and and taught the gentiles to do the same after Jesus ascended.

That and constant verses I their epistals after like the one in Romans 3 hark above me posted.

 

[Bob S]

2Cor3:7-11
The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

What does transitory mean? What was engraved in stone?

Gal3
Faith or Works of the Law
3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Why did Paul write that?

The Law and the Promise
15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed, meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law (Torah), introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

Why did Paul write that? And while you SDAs are at it notice verse 15 where it tells us that a covenant cannot be divided. See Matt 5:16-17 Either we are under all of Torah or we are not under any of it. If we are under all of it then stop cutting your sideburns.

 

[Bob S]

Eph2: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

 

[BobRyan]

Where? Anything you might lead me to prior to the death of Jesus on the Cross was said by Jesus to those under the law.

Is it your feeling that Christians should not listen to the teaching of Jesus that we find in the Gospel?

Is it your feeling that you are not under the New Covenant?

Where do you stand on that?

 

[BobRyan]

Devin P said: ↑
I've not seen one person in this entire thread claiming to be justified by the law.

You say you have not seen one person in this thread not trying to preach law ? did you not read the posts of bob Ryan Or sparo ?.

Correction -- Devin said "justified by law" then you "changed it" to something else as if to oppose Romans 3:31


....the law is great no doubt.... we will “find ourselves keeping the law” by the Holy Spirit working IN us....trusting God to work in us from the inside out is how we are “transferred” into the image of Jesus.


Rebellion against God's Word is not the path to heaven according to Paul in 1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

So “trusting God to transform us” is rebellion?

I don't see you quoting anything for that statement? Are you speaking of your own view? In the post you quoted - I did not say that

I said this

Rebellion against God's Word is not the path to heaven according to Paul in 1 Cor 6

Then I quoted this
1Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

My assumption was that you would have agreed with that statement.

Paul said that we are SAVED by trusting....

And he said "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God - but the doers of the LAW WILL be justified... on the day when according to my Gospel - God will judge" Rom 2:13-16

Both are true of course - both are the Word of God.

I think I will follow Paul as he follows Christ.

Good choice

 

[Devin P]

2Cor3:7-11
The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

What does transitory mean? What was engraved in stone?

What was transitory was the glory of Moses' face. Moses' righteousness. Though he was righteous enough out of his faith to stand before God for 40 days and 40 nights, it was temporary - (what transitory means). What do I mean by temporary? Well, the gospel was being preached by Moses. The movement, and the ministry was being ministered by Moses, a man. The glory of that which lasts, is the glory of our savior. His glory isn't temporary, because He can't sin, and therefore ruin it.

He, with the Spirit is leading us into all truth, unlike Moses, a corruptible fallible being, Jesus is an incorruptible infallible God.

Also, I'd like to note, that, the bold chapter title, isn't in the original text. It was written by man, and varies from publisher to publisher. The publisher has a bias that leans towards (I'm guessing) lawlessness.


There are two ministries, as it says later on in this chapter:

2 Corinthians 3:5-17
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

(Here Paul isn't saying that the law kills, he was saying that the ministry of the
law was incomplete. I'll show you why in the next few verses.)

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

(No man can be justified by the law, but this is what most of Israel failed to see. They lacked faith. All of Israel was guided out of Egypt, yet, only a handful of those who left, actually made it to the promised land because of their lack of faith. All of which, had great personal relationships with God, why? Because, they had been blessed with the faith to see the ministration of righteousness. As Jesus said, there were men that looked ahead to His day. The ministration of condemnation, was because the spirit, and forgiveness weren't mentioned. Only the great men of faith throughout the bible could see God's mercies. It was known, but not by many. The verses later on in this chapter attest that people knew about it, Moses being one. But, it wasn't made known to many, that was the ministration of righteousness, that this truth was to be made known to all that would accept it.)

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

(In verse 13-15 Paul is talking about how, the secret that Moses understood, had to be hidden from Israel because of their lack of faith. Their faith was in themselves to keep the law perfectly for justification, not in God to justify them. Moses understood what we now know, but because of their lack of faith, he had to put a vail on his face because none in all of Israel could look upon his face.

What's my point? Well, in verse 14, Paul proves my saying this, in that he said their "minds were blinded:" and then Paul goes on to say that even in the day he's writing it, the Jews still couldn't see it. That same vail that blinded Israel back in Moses' day, still blinded them in Paul's. But, thanks to the Spirit that was given freely because of Jesus, those who receive it, can see just as Moses did, that the doing of the law isn't for justification, that God will justify us. Then, in verse 15, Paul says what I said a few sentences ago, that the Jews still have, when reading Moses, the veil upon their hearts, blinding them from the truth, that the law isn't what justifies them.)

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

(The "it" Paul is referring to, is the heart of the Jew(s) that read Moses after they accept Jesus, and accept the gift He's trying to freely give them, and us. The veil will be taken away, and they'll see that their righteousness, isn't their own, but the righteousness of God, as Paul said back in verse 5 of this chapter.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Gal3
Faith or Works of the Law
3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Why did Paul write that?

The Law and the Promise
15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed, meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law (Torah), introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

("For as many as are of the works of the law" as in, for those that place their faith in the works of the law, they are under the curse, as in the Jews, whose heart we saw from the Corinthians verse, was cursed by not being able to see through the veil. We aren't placing our faith in the works of the law though, we are keeping the law out of faith. We know we're saved, but we desire to keep the law because it's the least that we can do. He gave His life for us, and He asks us to do our best to keep His laws, so we do.)

Galatians 3:21-23
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

(These verses show that Jesus gave birth to faith, and that before this faith, we were shut up to it, but also notice that in verse 23 "which should afterwards be revealed" as in, it always existed, but afterwards should be revealed as in made known. Meaning, there were people keeping the laws, that were justified, not in their keeping the law, but because of their faith. Like Moses. He had faith, that 99% of those living at the time were unaware of.)

Why did Paul write that? And while you SDAs are at it notice verse 15 where it tells us that a covenant cannot be divided. See Matt 5:16-17 Either we are under all of Torah or we are not under any of it. If we are under all of it then stop cutting your sideburns. [/QUOTE]
Right, I'm not debating that the law can't separate us from God. I know that. But, you're confusing me, and thinking that I'm saying that the law justifies us, and that's not it at all. I'm growing and learning to keep the law because He asks that we do. He says if you love me, keep my commandments. He says that in the last day, He'll say, "depart from me, ye who work lawlessness", therefore, I don't want to be lawless, because my Father in heaven wants me to keep the laws, not SO I'm saved, but BECAUSE I'm already saved.

That, and it doesn't say a covenant can't be divided. It says it can't be set aside, and forgotten about. Basically saying, this covenant of faith was promised to Abraham, so the covenant of law can't supersede that and ruin the promise to Abraham. I digress though, I'm not saying we do away with any of the Torah, but you have to understand that there's parts of it that don't apply anymore.

For instance, Jesus is our priest. Before only levites, more specifically levitical sons, specifically of Aaron could only offer sacrifices, but when Jesus died, He overtook the levitical priesthood, and now He Himself is our priest. He is mediating on our behalf even now. So, unless we're doing a nazarite vow, we can't sacrifice animals. It'd be actually against torah, not something I'm choosing to do away with. It'd be a sin.

That, and there's certain things I can't do. There were certain laws only given to kings, to slave owners, to slaves, to children, to women, to married couples, to farmers, to judges, to levites, to levitical priests, etc. When you get down to it there's only 150-200 for me to follow. Shaving my face is one of them that still applies though yeah. It says don't mar the edges of your beard though, so I believe that you can still shave your face, you just can't mar and deck up the edges (no fancy beard styles).

Also, I'm not an SDA. I'm just trying to follow the Messiah, the way the bible tells me to, and the way I see the "primitive christians" following Him. You know, before rome killed those they found keeping Torah. There's not really a name for what I am, and actually, I've not found one consistent name with us. Everyone I fellowship with, and everyone I've met online, we all go by different names. We all believe pretty much exactly the same, but we just haven't settled on a name I suppose? Idk, I'm just trying to follow the Messiah though. All of the modern church denominations are all sects of catholicism though, and at the root of it, the catholic church is why 99% of christians have sabbath on sunday, and not saturday. Despite the catholic church itself countless times confessing that they changed the sabbath to sunday, and not the bible.

 

[BobRyan]

We are "saved by grace through faith - not of works lest anyone should boast" -

This means that only the perfect life of Christ could ever pass "the standard" of the perfect Law of God which includes the Ten Commandments.

But as Paul says in 1 Cor 6 "do not be deceived" into thinking that rebellion is the key to eternal life.

Rather in Romans 8:4-9 the distinction Paul makes between saved and lost is that in the case of the lost "they do not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they".

By contrast the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

This post is double speak.

not even remotely true. The text is clear.

John doesn't promote keeping the law for salvation. .

The post does not claim that John says the lost keep the Law to gain salvation.. and we both know it.

The point remains.

 

[Devin P]

Eph2: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

We've got to read it all in context though. At the beginning of the chapter shows who the audience he's talking to used to be:

Ephesians 2:1-5
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

(So, before Jesus, they were dead in trespasses, and sins. Why? Because, they "walked according to the course of this world")

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

(They fulfilled the desires of the flesh, and of the mind, and the lusts of the flesh.)

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

(They were "quickened". Now, let's look at this phrase. Paul didn't just make this up. It's a reference to the OT, their only scriptures at the time.

Psalm 119:40 - Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness

Psalm 119:37 - Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.

Psalm 119:92-93 - 92Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction.
93I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.)

Then Paul goes on to write:
Ephesians 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

(In verse 12, Paul reveals that all gentiles are withheld from the covenant of promise. Why? Because, it's only for Israel. God's sheep, children, chosen, wheat, etc. All throughout the scriptures, all these terms, are only ever used to refer to Israel. My point is, through Jesus, Paul reveals that you are no longer strangers to the covenant of promise, and that you are brought into the commonwealth of Israel (the nation, or people))

Ephesians 2:19-22 -
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

(In verse 19, Paul verifies what I said earlier, and in verse 20, we see what our foundation is to be. The foundation of the apostles, and the prophets. What did the prophets teach? The law. They constantly tried getting Israel and Judah to repent, and come back to God, and to come back to Torah, constantly. I can link you several verses where the apostles kept the 7th day sabbath, and where they kept Pentecost (after the spirit was given) where they kept Passover, Unleavened bread, etc.

Through Jesus, we become Israel, and are to keep the law of God, not for salvation, but because that is what His Spirit should move you to do.)

 

[Bob S]

31 Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? MAY IT NOT BE COMING TO THAT! Nay, we are sustaining law."

That same writer, Paul, wrote that we are not under the schoolmaster. The law has not been destroyed and as Paul wrote it is there to convict us of sin. There was no New Testament when Paul wrote those words. We now have scripture that explains what sin is and it is not the ritual laws given to Israel as the way they were to live in the land of Canaan. Laws dealing with morality are forever.

 

[Bob S]

We've got to read it all in context though. At the beginning of the chapter shows who the audience he's talking to used to be:

Ephesians 2:1-5
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

(So, before Jesus, they were dead in trespasses, and sins. Why? Because, they "walked according to the course of this world")

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

(They fulfilled the desires of the flesh, and of the mind, and the lusts of the flesh.)

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

(They were "quickened". Now, let's look at this phrase. Paul didn't just make this up. It's a reference to the OT, their only scriptures at the time.

Psalm 119:40 - Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness

Psalm 119:37 - Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.

Psalm 119:92-93 - 92Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction.
93I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.)

Then Paul goes on to write:
Ephesians 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

(In verse 12, Paul reveals that all gentiles are withheld from the covenant of promise. Why? Because, it's only for Israel. God's sheep, children, chosen, wheat, etc. All throughout the scriptures, all these terms, are only ever used to refer to Israel. My point is, through Jesus, Paul reveals that you are no longer strangers to the covenant of promise, and that you are brought into the commonwealth of Israel (the nation, or people))

Ephesians 2:19-22 -
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

(In verse 19, Paul verifies what I said earlier, and in verse 20, we see what our foundation is to be. The foundation of the apostles, and the prophets. What did the prophets teach? The law. They constantly tried getting Israel and Judah to repent, and come back to God, and to come back to Torah, constantly. I can link you several verses where the apostles kept the 7th day sabbath, and where they kept Pentecost (after the spirit was given) where they kept Passover, Unleavened bread, etc.

Through Jesus, we become Israel, and are to keep the law of God, not for salvation, but because that is what His Spirit should move you to do.)

The verses I quoted fit the reason I needed. They stand alone quite nicely.

As far as Paul ldoing the things he did, well we will have to ask him, but he did write many times that we are not under the law. Just because he attended the synagogue of the Jewish Sabbath does not mean that he was "keeping" it. Same goes for the feast days he attended. We have no reason to believe he felt that it was a salvational thing to do.

 

[listed]

Well I'm sorry you think that, but the apostles and Jesus himself say otherwise.

Such as

 

[listed]

No, trusting God isn't rebellion, but if the "spirit" you're following causes you to rebel against God's word, then you're not following the spirit of our Creator.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 -
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

His Spirit will cause you to desire to obey His Holy Law.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

If your mind isn't desiring to be subject to His law, then you haven't yet been purified by His Spirit entirely. You desire to obey Him, and follow Him, and that's a beautiful thing, but you've been led astray by the false doctrines of men, the commandments of men, and the traditions of our fathers. It's why faith without works is dead, and why the doers of the law are justified and not just the hearers.

Is not keeping the law rebellion against God?

 

[listed]

What about this one?:

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am Yahweh.

It looks like a direct command to me.

What about it? Good for a false accusation though.

 

[Devin P]

The verses I quoted fit the reason I needed. They stand alone quite nicely.

As far as Paul ldoing the things he did, well we will have to ask him, but he did write many times that we are not under the law. Just because he attended the synagogue of the Jewish Sabbath does not mean that he was "keeping" it. Same goes for the feast days he attended. We have no reason to believe he felt that it was a salvational thing to do.

I don't know how else to say it. I've said it multiple times. It's not a "salvation thing". You do it because you're already saved, not so you can be saved.

The way the primitive church worshipped was hebraic in custom. The pagan way 99% of Christians worship now is from the influence of the roman catholic church, not God.

They killed and ostracized anyone found keeping torah, Paul as well.

Paul and the apostles kept Torah, It's why they were martyred. They didn't however, keep Torah TO be saved, that's wrong. We keep Torah because He who has justified us COMMANDS us to.

Why do you think Jews today reject Jesus? Because according to the law that Jesus was perfect in, anyone that does away with anything in the law is sinning and therefore can't be Messiah. So if what you're saying is true, and Jesus did away with Torah, then he's (according to the law He was perfect in) a false Messiah.

I'll say it again, according to Deuteronomy 13, if Jesus did away with the law, and calls Himself God - Him doing away with the law makes Him a sinner and a false Messiah. But we know He's the real Messiah, meaning He could not have done away with Torah. You've been lied to. You've inherited the religion of your "father's" as God prophesied we'd realize in the last days.