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Why Believers have the Law of Moses written on the heart under New Covenant

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by BobRyan, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Glad to have you posting on this thread David -- welcome!

    Yes it does ... or did you think it was "ok to take God's name in vain"??

    Eph 6:2 speaks to the "unit of TEN" Where the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a promise" -- very specifically pointing to that unit of TEN.

    And we all know it.

    And Romans 7... and James 2 -- remind us that God's TEN Commandments are included in God's Law... And we all know it.

    Nice quote of "you" ... not the Bible.

    Which puts all your "Ten Commandments not the LAW" statement in jeopardy.

    I think we agree that you have made a mistake.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    You point to a quote of the Bible and say you don't understand the author's.

    Your argument "is with the text".


    Paul did not say that... you did. You cannot simply "quote you" then stick Paul's name to it.

    Paul said --


    New Testament
    "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

    Irrefutable.
     
  3. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Hands-on Trainee Supporter

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    "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
     
  4. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    To answer your question with one word ——”NO”. Please return the favor “yes” or “no” To my question.....if you can’t answer with one of those two words,you will reveal your answer anyway
     
  5. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, no one is justified by it. Not at all. That's not what we're saying, nor is it what the bible says.

    You mentioned Paul. In Romans 7 he tells us the point of the law -
    Romans 7:7 - What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

    He then goes on to say:
    Romans 7:14-25

    14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
    (The law is spiritual, remember this)
    15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
    16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
    17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
    19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
    20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
    22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
    23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

    (So, in verse 15 He says that which he wants to do, he doesn't, and that which he doesn't want to do, he does. What's he talking about? He's about to tell us, but what he wants to do, is keep God's law, and what he doesn't want to do, is break it.
    In verse 16, He says he does what he doesn't want to do, and agrees that God's law is good.
    Then in verse 20, since he agrees that God's law is good, and that he desires to obey it, but - as verse 18 points out - his flesh is sinful, and prevents him from being perfect in the law. The important part though, is that he desires to keep God's law, and
    in verse 22 he says that his mind desires and is pleased by the law of God.
    In verse 23 however, he says that there is another law that is in him, warring against his mind's desire to do God's law. That is, as we see from verse 18, in his flesh, and the law he's referring to that's waging war against his mind's desire to keep God's law, is the law of sin and death.)


    24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
    25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
    (He then explains that he is irritated and sickened by himself in verse 24, that he can't keep God's law,
    and in verse 25, he says that he thanks Jesus for deliverance from this issue. He then goes on to say that with his mind and as he said earlier, his will, he will serve and desire the law of God, but with his flesh, the law of sin and death.)

    Then, in Romans 8 (Remember I said remember that the law is spiritual)

    1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    (As Paul stated in Romans 7, Jesus was what freed him from the law of sin and death, which was as Paul stated, his flesh breaking the law of God, even though his mind and will desired to keep it.
    Also, the law is spiritual. It is spirit. The things of the spirit are life, and the things of the flesh are death. In verse 1, when it's talking about walking, your walk is how you desire, the actions you choose to make, the path you choose to take. So if you choose to be without the law of God, then you are walking in the flesh, as Paul will directly tell us a few verses from now)

    3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    (Here Paul tells us in verse 7, that the carnal mind is enmity against God, and then he goes on to say that the reason it's an enemy to God, is because it's not subject to the law of God, nor can the carnal mind be. Also, note how he said in Romans 7 that his mind was spiritual, and desired God's law which is spiritual also.)

    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    (I highlighted this portion, because if we look at that phrase "quicken" - it didn't just come from Paul. That phrase is all over the scriptures, so if we look back to see which verses used it, we can see more of what he means by the spirit of Jesus will quicken us from our sinful ways. I'll link a few of the verses here, and then I'll link them again after the rest of my Roman 8 reference.
    Psalm 119:50
    Psalm 119:92-93
    Psalm 119-25-27
    Psalm 119-36-40
    Psalm 119-92-94
    )

    12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
    13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
    (Here, in verse 13, just as Romans 7 points out, where he was sickened by his flesh and his inability to keep God's law, this is what he's talking about by mortifying the deeds of the body. We aren't supposed to want to go our own way, because His Spirit being in us, makes us desire the law of God, and no longer the ways of the flesh.

    As the bible says: Proverbs 14:12 - There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.)

    Ezekiel 36:26-27 shows us what it means to have God's spirit living in us, and it looks exactly as Paul described for us. We will desire to comply and submit to the law of God. Not for salvation, but because we already are saved, and out of thankfulness, love and a change of heart (from stone to soft flesh) we desire to keep the will of God. To avoid sinning, just as Paul described in Romans 7

    But what is sin?
    1 John 3:4 -
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    It's the transgression of the law. Sin, is walking after the ways of the flesh, and not submitting to God's law, as Romans 8:7 tells us.

    But yeah, I promised to show what those verses said for Psalms. Since this message is long enough already, I'll link it in two.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  6. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Hello Bob.

    Thanks for the warm welcome.

    Sin is transgression of the law.

    The text uses the phrase, 'the law', which means the entire law contained in the Old Testament.

    You have made a critical error in reading that sentence. Your seeing the following.

    Sin is transgression of the ten commandments?

    Which the sentence does not say.

    No it does not say that breaking the ten commandments is sin. Rather the verse is simply saying, that the entire law matters, that is how sin is defined by the apostles. Sin is breaking any one of the entire law found in the Old Testament.

    You might be teaching gluttony, sorcery, and kidnapping are legal, because the ten commandments do not mention them.
    Half a quotation, you left out verse one.
    Obviously you are not aware of the context.
    Neither chapter mentions the phrase, ten commandments. I don't know where you get that from?
    Your the one that uses partial quotations and inference to preach the ten commandments.
    Negative, sin is transgression of the law. Everyone can see the phrase 'the law'.
    Read the text and not the SDA handbook.
     
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  7. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    Psalm 119:92-94 -
    92Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction.
    93I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.
    94I am thine, save me; for I have sought thy precepts.


    Psalm 119:49-51 -
    49Remember the word unto thy servant, upon which thou hast caused me to hope.
    50This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.
    51The proud have had me greatly in derision: yet have I not declined from thy law.


    Psalm 119:36-40 -
    36Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, and not to covetousness.
    37Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.

    38Stablish thy word unto thy servant, who is devoted to thy fear.
    39Turn away my reproach which I fear: for thy judgments are good.
    40Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness.

    Psalms 119:25-29 -
    25My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word.
    26I have declared my ways, and thou heardest me: teach me thy statutes.
    27Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: so shall I talk of thy wondrous works.

    28My soul melteth for heaviness: strengthen thou me according unto thy word.
    29Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously.
     
  8. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Hands-on Trainee Supporter

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    I'll choose to reveal my answer anyway. The law won't save you; because all are guilty of breaking it. If you are guilty of any part; you are guilty of all. The penalty is death. YHWH saves you; but you must turn away from lawlessness. The gate is narrow. Many are called. Few are chosen.

    Your turn.

    Would Yahweh choose a whoring bride for his son Yahshua?
     
  9. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Hello Devin P.

    Not another one.
    Sin is transgression of the law, which means the all encompassing law found in the Old Testament. Adam broke the law, Adam died. The law Adam broke was not listed in the ten commandments, yet Adam sinned.

    Explain to me how Adam sinned?

    This verse means when you break God's law, no matter which law, your sinning.

    Why do the legalists see something else, something that is not written in the text?

     
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  10. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Hands-on Trainee Supporter

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    Good point. It's not even listed in the law. Maybe the law goes deeper than what is written in the book. Maybe we have to listen to YHWH with all our mind, all our heart, with all intensity, to understand in every detail how we can remain obedient to him. Maybe he'll write in on our hearts.
     
  11. YouAreAwesome

    YouAreAwesome ☝✌

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    "And this is his commandment: We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us."
     
  12. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    Adam was in a garden that no one else has ever been in. God gave us the Torah so we know how to best get around down here on earth. If we were in the garden, and it was required that we refrain from a fruit to enter into life, then yeah, it'd be sin for us.

    Have you ever been in Eden? Have you ever eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Until you have been in the garden, and have partaken of the tree, it doesn't really make sense as a hypothetical. There are two types of sins. Both are disobeying God's word.
    There's disobeying God's literal word, as in He literally speaks aloud to you, and you disobey.
    Then there's disobeying His written word.

    Both are sins, and both are contrary to His word.

    Moses was guilty of sin when he struck the rock twice, instead of speaking to it like God said. So, Moses struck the rock twice, instead of speaking to it, and God accounted it to him for sin, and Moses couldn't enter into the promised land because of this sin, as God points out to Moses in Numbers 20

    Numbers 20:12-13 - 12And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. 13This is the water of Meribah; because the children of Israel strove with the LORD, and he was sanctified in them.

    Numbers 20:24 - 24Aaron shall be gathered unto his people: for he shall not enter into the land which I have given unto the children of Israel, because ye rebelled against my word at the water of Mariah.

    Here He's talking to both Aaron and Moses, because He commanded Moses to speak to the rock, yet he out of anger struck it twice. To Him (Moses) it was accounted as sin, and again, he couldn't enter the promised land because of it. Where was not striking a rock for water in the Torah? No where, because sin is both disobeying God's literal word that He speaks to us when commanding us with His voice, and also, (more likely) disobeying His written word.
     
  13. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    “Paul did not say that” ??.......”For if we could be saved by keeping Jewish laws,then Christ died in vain” Gal.2:21
    I got another verse where Paul uses the word”impossible “ But I Can’t find it yet.Please trust me .......it is in there....as Homer Simpson said when pressed about a stupid verse he made up.....”It’s somewhere in the back”...lol
     
  14. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    You answered me while doing your damnest not to...thanks
     
  15. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Hello Devin P.

    Exactly the point, sin is not just transgression of the law, as some folk so fondly repeat ignorantly.

    Sin is any disobedience to all of God's instruction, written or not.

    So can someone in the end obey all of God's instruction, now that would be impossible.

    The only sinners in heaven are those saved by Grace.
     
  16. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    It's one of two things. Disobedience to His written Torah, or disobedience to His literal word - as in the words coming from His mouth. Like, He's speaking to you in person, tells you to do something, and you disobey.

    Us, regular people only have His written Torah however (first five books of the bible)

    I'm not saying that you have to perfectly keep the law to be saved, but you should desire to keep it because you already are saved. No one aside from Jesus kept the law perfectly, but all who are to be saved that are dead, they at least desired to keep it, and tried to keep it. When they inevitably failed, they realized they would be justified by God. No one walking according to the flesh can be saved, and you will know when you are walking according to the flesh, because you will be without the law (as in you desire to be free from the law). Walking by the spirit, means that (though your flesh sins) your mind desires obedience to the law of God. Your flesh is a servant the law of sin and death, but your mind is a servant to the law of God.

    It's why Jesus will say, depart from me, ye who work lawlessness. You might say, no, that word is iniquity. Well, in that verse, iniquity is translated from the word "anomia" which means, lawlessness.
     
  17. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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  18. listed

    listed are you?

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    Just not what I read in the Scripture. Take Jeremiah 31:31-33 for example. there's no such thing as spiritual Israel.
     
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  19. listed

    listed are you?

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    That isn't proof Paul kept the law in regard to salvation. Paul was living like a gentile in Antioch.
     
  20. listed

    listed are you?

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    What does anything you posted here have to do with? You're self defeating with 1 Timothy 1:8-11.
     
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