Why aren't we educated about our health?

[jayem]

No, it can't. There is no fine tuning possible.

In one sense, the immune system is "fine tuned." The B and T lymphocytes, plasma cells, and other components must distinguish self from other. It must know when to turn itself off and not attack tissues in the body it should be defending. If there's a glitch in this process, the result is an autoimmune disease. Which, I'm sure you know, are many. And are not uncommon--rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, Hashimoto's disease, Grave's disease, Sjogren's syndrome, sarcoidosis, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, and many more. Multiple sclerosis and Type 1 diabetes are considered to be autoimmune illnesses. We can suppress a pathological autoimmune response in some cases. But you're correct in that we don't yet have technology to reliably 'fine tune" or reset an immune system that's gone rogue.

 

[Tanj]

In one sense, the immune system is "fine tuned."

Would that it were.

The B and T lymphocytes, plasma cells, and other components must distinguish self from other.

They..wait...what..I don't even...

It must know when to turn itself off and not attack tissues in the body it should be defending. If there's a glitch in this process, the result is an autoimmune disease. Which, I'm sure you know, are many. And are not uncommon--rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, Hashimoto's disease, Grave's disease, Sjogren's syndrome, sarcoidosis, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, and many more.

So...not fined tuned then.

 

[Tanj]

There's only one reason you don't get sick when others around you are.

That's not true.

You have a healthy immune system. It cannot be otherwise.

It sure can! Luckily for humanity, your incredulity is not a yardstick by which we measure reality

There was a period in my life when I was sick like those around me due to an unhealthy lifestyle. When I corrected that my health returned. I can't offer more than that.

Fair enough. Then only offer that, and stop with the completely bogus "fine tuning" or"strengthening" of the immune system. Your laysplaining is so far from the truth.

Quoting from Paul C. Bragg's book "The Miracle of Fasting"

Meh. I'll stick to the scientific literature thanks. Books are out of date months before they are published.

 

[Ophiolite]

These are necessary starting points (I could add 'bullets' if you wish). Few people follow these simple rules, never mind fine tuning them.

You are missing the point. You stated that there were specific things one needs to do to ensure a healthy immune system. You were asked to provide details of these specific things. You then provided a general list of things to do, admitting you had not provided the details.

In short, you have failed to meet the request that you provide a list of the specific things that would ensure a healthy immune system. There is no problem in such a failure if you simply say, "actually I cannot do that". There is a problem if you try to bluff your way through, pretending a general list is a specific list.

I don't think the deceit is intentional. I thing it stems from a habitual loose, at times very loose, use of language. This is the Physical and Life Sciences sub-forum. It would be appreciated if you made more effort to use language in a precise way.

 

[jayem]

So...not fined tuned then.

In a lot of unfortunate folks, that’s very true.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In one sense, the immune system is "fine tuned." The B and T lymphocytes, plasma cells, and other components must distinguish self from other. It must know when to turn itself off and not attack tissues in the body it should be defending. If there's a glitch in this process, the result is an autoimmune disease. Which, I'm sure you know, are many. And are not uncommon--rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, Hashimoto's disease, Grave's disease, Sjogren's syndrome, sarcoidosis, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, and many more. Multiple sclerosis and Type 1 diabetes are considered to be autoimmune illnesses. We can suppress a pathological autoimmune response in some cases. But you're correct in that we don't yet have technology to reliably 'fine tune" or reset an immune system that's gone rogue.

You can add COVID-19 to that list.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

...stop with the completely bogus "fine tuning" or"strengthening" of the immune system. Your laysplaining is so far from the truth.

Your gut is the cornerstone of your immune system - Natural Fertility Clinic

The main reason for the recent push to consume foods containing pre and probiotics is to strengthen, or fine tune, the immune system. It can be further fine tuned through a well planned diet.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You are missing the point. You stated that there were specific things one needs to do to ensure a healthy immune system. You were asked to provide details of these specific things. You then provided a general list of things to do, admitting you had not provided the details.

In short, you have failed to meet the request that you provide a list of the specific things that would ensure a healthy immune system. There is no problem in such a failure if you simply say, "actually I cannot do that". There is a problem if you try to bluff your way through, pretending a general list is a specific list.

I don't think the deceit is intentional. I thing it stems from a habitual loose, at times very loose, use of language. This is the Physical and Life Sciences sub-forum. It would be appreciated if you made more effort to use language in a precise way.

While my list can be viewed as general habits leading to overall health they are also very specific things one must do to ensure the strongest immune system. That they have 'other' health benefits can be considered ancillary to their main purpose.

Of course each one can also be studied in depth in order to maximize their benefits. For example information that will aid in getting the best sleep possible.

 

[Ophiolite]

While my list can be viewed as general habits leading to overall health they are also very specific things one must do to ensure the strongest immune system. That they have 'other' health benefits can be considered ancillary to their main purpose.

Of course each one can also be studied in depth in order to maximize their benefits. For example information that will aid in getting the best sleep possible.

They are not specific. For example, one of them is to have a healthy diet. To properly specify this would require many details. You provided none. You have not been specific.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

They are not specific. For example, one of them is to have a healthy diet. To properly specify this would require many details. You provided none. You have not been specific.

True. Each would require a large body of information to be studied and personalized (some foods that I prefer others may not like). I have given a basic outline that others can use as a guide. People don't need to be waited on hand and foot, intellectually speaking.

 

[Ophiolite]

True. Each would require a large body of information to be studied and personalized (some foods that I prefer others may not like). I have given a basic outline that others can use as a guide. People don't need to be waited on hand and foot, intellectually speaking.

I'm not saying they should be. I am objecting to your sloppy writing and your obtuse refusal to acknowledge it. This is like pulling teeth. Carry on being vague. I'm done on this one.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm not saying they should be. I am objecting to your sloppy writing and your obtuse refusal to acknowledge it. This is like pulling teeth. Carry on being vague. I'm done on this one.

That's ok. I'm a bit tired of your backseat "are we there yet" questions.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Americans are generally unhealthy, therefore their immune systems are weak (although 'terribly' might have been a bit harsh). This isn't debatable.

I'm just asking you for the evidence you have for this claim, a reference, citation, or article. It may be that humans as a whole are generally 'unhealthy', or perhaps just the developed nations, or the West; but I'd like to know whether this is just an uninformed personal opinion, or whether it's based on reliable evidence or reporting.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm just asking you for the evidence you have for this claim, a reference, citation, or article. It may be that humans as a whole are generally 'unhealthy', or perhaps just the developed nations, or the West; but I'd like to know whether this is just an uninformed personal opinion, or whether it's based on reliable evidence or reporting.

It is based on evidence, observation, and experience.

Why do you think that healthcare has been in the news and in politics for decades? It's not because people are healthy.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The main reason for the recent push to consume foods containing pre and probiotics is to strengthen, or fine tune, the immune system. It can be further fine tuned through a well planned diet.

There's good evidence for the benefits of prebiotic fibre, but as yet, the main reason for the recent push to consume foods containing probiotics is to strengthen the share price and profits of the companies making them; according to an NIH review, the evidence for probiotic benefit for gut health is tentative at best, and mainly inconclusive - although there does appear to be some benefit in severe (potentially fatal) infant necrotizing enterocolitis.

One of the reasons is that sufficient live probiotic bacteria have to survive first the stomach acid, and then the highly alkaline small intestine (full of bile juices, pancreatic juices, enzymes, etc.) before reaching the large intestine where they're supposed to do their duty - and, of course, if they get there in sufficient numbers, they must compete with the existing bacterial population and have some beneficial effect. It's a tall order - work is being done to breed and genetically engineer bacteria that can better survive the journey, but it's early days.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It is based on evidence, observation, and experience.

Why do you think that healthcare has been in the news and in politics for decades? It's not because people are healthy.

What evidence - newspaper headlines? political soundbites?

Healthcare is a topic of interest because many people would like to improve their health, some people really need to improve their health, it sells vast amounts of expensive products and services, it makes good headlines, and it makes good politics.

I'm not denying that there are many unhealthy Americans, I'm simply asking for some substantiation for the claim that Americans, in general, are unhealthy.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There's good evidence for the benefits of prebiotic fibre, but as yet, the main reason for the recent push to consume foods containing probiotics is to strengthen the share price and profits of the companies making them; according to an NIH review, the evidence for probiotic benefit for gut health is tentative at best, and mainly inconclusive - although there does appear to be some benefit in severe (potentially fatal) infant necrotizing enterocolitis.

One of the reasons is that sufficient live probiotic bacteria have to survive first the stomach acid, and then the highly alkaline small intestine (full of bile juices, pancreatic juices, enzymes, etc.) before reaching the large intestine where they're supposed to do their duty - and, of course, if they get there in sufficient numbers, they must compete with the existing bacterial population and have some beneficial effect. It's a tall order - work is being done to breed and genetically engineer bacteria that can better survive the journey, but it's early days.

I fully agree. Store bought pre/probiotics aren't needed if one has a good diet. I was pointing out the recent focus on digestive health and how it relates to the immune system.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What evidence - newspaper headlines? political soundbites?

Healthcare is a topic of interest because many people would like to improve their health, some people really need to improve their health, it sells vast amounts of expensive products and services, it makes good headlines, and it makes good politics.

I'm not denying that there are many unhealthy Americans, I'm simply asking for some substantiation for the claim that Americans, in general, are unhealthy.

There are three levels of 'health'.

1. Healthy
2. Not sick.
3. Sick

Most people travel between the second and third level.
Those in the first level often visit the second level, but rarely the third.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

There are three levels of 'health'.

1. Healthy
2. Not sick.
3. Sick

Most Americans fall into the second and third category.

Citation? or is this just your unsupported personal opinion?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Citation? or is this just your unsupported personal opinion?

You can cite... me.