Why aren't the Deuterocanonical books or the Apocrypha in the Bible?

Albion

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In other words, you've got nothing.
Not so. I researched this myself. But that was awhile ago, and it would take me some time to assemble and copy and post all of that...just because you are unwilling to do it for yourself.

It doesn't seem to me that you really want to know the answer to this matter or else you'd have followed up the information you'd been given.
 
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Mike Alexander

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Anti-Catholic people will never give anything that backs up Catholicism
Is my exchange with Albion what you were referencing? I ask for some back up to his/her claims (which of course I think are incorrect) and I get this type of attitude.
 
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Mike Alexander

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Not so. I researched this myself. But that was awhile ago, and it would take me some time to assemble and copy and post all of that...just because you are unwilling to do it for yourself.

It doesn't seem to me that you really want to know the answer to this matter or else you'd have followed up the information you'd been given.
I'm willing to listen to all sides. But forgive me if I don't believe you just because "you say so."
 
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Albion

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I'll give you credit for not just taking the approach some do, of posting "anti-Catholic" every time someone disagrees on a matter of fact. But really, I think that unless you search out the history of the Apocrypha for yourself, you will continue to doubt that whatever is presented to you by anyone else (not just by me) is unbiased or the whole truth or whatever.

Besides, I already know the answer--and I passed it along to you. If you don't want to believe it, it's no loss to me. But if you want to verify something, you have the option to pursue it or not.
 
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Mike Alexander

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I'll give you credit for not just taking the approach some do, of posting "anti-Catholic" every time someone disagrees on a matter of fact. But really, I think that unless you search out the history of the Apocrypha for yourself, you will continue to doubt that whatever is presented to you by anyone else (not just by me) is unbiased or the whole truth or whatever.
The only thing that would make me think you are anti Catholic is your willingness to put out opinions about the RCC and the bible canon without the where with all to back it up. Now, that doesn't mean you are anti Catholic, maybe your just learning about Christianity, I don't know. Your responses are superficial. I don't mean that is a bad way. They don't have any depth. Like I said before, just becasue you say so doesnt make it so. God bless
 
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Albion

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The only thing that would make me think you are anti Catholic is your willingness to put out opinions about the RCC and the bible canon without the where with all to back it up.
Well, I do have the 'where with all' to back it up, Mike. The only question is whether I'm going to agree to do your work for you.

Best wishes to you as a member of CF. :)
 
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Antig

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Well, I do have the 'where with all' to back it up, Mike. The only question is whether I'm going to agree to do your work for you.

Best wishes to you as a member of CF. :)

Looking at your various posts I would say you are dead against Catholicism
 
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Albion

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All this is is more of "since I say so it is so." God bless.
No, it isn't. I don't actually care if you believe the facts or not. I haven't gloated that I won something or other as you are insinuating. Don't look anything up if you don't want your assumptions to be challenged. I merely passed along information that you weren't aware of and you can either profit from it or decline to do that.
 
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Mike Alexander

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I don't actually care if you believe the facts
I think this is where you are thinking incorrectly. You have NOT presented facts. I will agree you've presented opinion.
I haven't gloated that I won something or other as you are insinuating
I never insinuated gloating.
I merely passed along information that you weren't aware of
But you haven't passed along information. You stated an opinion.
you can either profit from it or decline to do that.
Thank you. God bless
 
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Radagast

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Not so. I researched this myself. But that was awhile ago, and it would take me some time to assemble and copy and post all of that...just because you are unwilling to do it for yourself.

St Athanasius, for example, after listing what he considers canonical books, writes: But for greater exactness I add this also, writing of necessity; that there are other books besides these not indeed included in the Canon, but appointed by the Fathers to be read by those who newly join us, and who wish for instruction in the word of godliness. The Wisdom of Solomon, and the Wisdom of Sirach, and Esther, and Judith, and Tobit, and that which is called the Teaching of the Apostles, and the Shepherd.
 
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Devin P

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Some of these stories are about women of faith and some have a lot to do with Jewish history.
Books like Jasher, and Enoch should have been kept in. They are quoted from, and referenced to in the bible, and concepts only found in these books are used by everyone from Jesus, Paul, Jude, David, Joshua, there definitely are some books that should have been in the cannon, especially since a lot of the books written were for us in these the last days. Just read through the bible, soaking up as much as you can, and then go through the the books you want. Just make sure to at all times, try them by the scriptures, and if anything contradicts, or deviates, take it with a grain of salt.

I'm reading through Jasher right now, and so far there are some small scribal errors, but for the most part, there's nothing that is huge and contradictory. It only adds to the stories about the events in genesis so far. Gives a lot of insight and understanding to a few events that just didn't make much sense prior to reading them though. Like, how Isaac was cool with getting sacrificed considering he was a full grown man at the time, or why Abraham's brother died in his father's land, what was going on in Sodom and Gomorra that made it so bad, what they did at the tower of babel, how Abraham came to know God, and his relationship to Noah etc, etc, etc. It just gives insight. As Joshua points out, the book of Jasher is a history book, of the deep events that happened.

There's definitely value to be gleamed, so don't ignore them because some people feel absolute hatred towards those that read them, or completely write them off because they feel that because members of the catholic church some odd time ago decided to say they were unscriptural, despite them being used as scripture and being quoted from, and referenced to by several people of great esteem all throughout the bible. If you have an interest, ignore the nay-sayers, pray to God, read your scriptures first, and then read into the non-canonical books, whilst comparing them to scripture. Not all of the books they removed were legit, because there were several works that came about after Jesus' death and ascension that made their way into the collection of books people would read. But, they got rid of too many books for sure. Just pray, and read and seek it out for yourself, that'd be the best way to go for it.
 
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Mike Alexander

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St Athanasius, for example, after listing what he considers canonical books, writes: But for greater exactness I add this also, writing of necessity; that there are other books besides these not indeed included in the Canon, but appointed by the Fathers to be read by those who newly join us, and who wish for instruction in the word of godliness. The Wisdom of Solomon, and the Wisdom of Sirach, and Esther, and Judith, and Tobit, and that which is called the Teaching of the Apostles, and the Shepherd.
You are attempting to help Albion. However, your answer is not to the questions I asked him to provide information for.

But since you brought it up, I am certain you would not be surprised that there was hearty debate abour the canon of the bible. Jerome himself had questions. All that mean is that they were free thinking men. The council of Carthage finished it

"The canon was later approved at the Council of Carthage (397) pending ratification by the "Church across the sea", that is, the See of Rome."

But in the end of the day as Augustine said "Rome has spoken, the matter is settled"

God Bless
 
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BobRyan

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Some of these stories are about women of faith and some have a lot to do with Jewish history.

1. The Jews knew they were not inspired by God and the Jews own the OT - - not the Catholics. Josephus admits during the first century A.D. that NO change had been made to the OT canon of scriptures for over 400 years - but rather that the canon was already fixed and was being kept in the Temple as "the standard".

2. They had no prophets during that 400 period of time -- in which the deuterocanonicals were written.

  • “So they tore down the altar, and stored the stones in a convenient place on the temple hill until there should come a prophet to tell what to do with them.” (1 Maccabees 4:45b-46).
  • “Thus there was great distress in Israel, such as had not been since the time that prophets ceased to appear among them.” (1 Maccabees 9:27).
  • “And the Jews and their priests decided that Simon should be their leader and high priest for ever, until a trustworthy prophet should arise…” (1 Maccabees 14:41).
Which tells you that even the author of Maccabees knew he was not inspired

Even Jerome admits in his text that the Apocryphal books are not accepted as part of the then-known canon of scripture for the OT.

Everyone knows that not a single apocryphal book was written by a Christian - which means the authority for accepting/rejecting those texts is BEFORE the time of Christ- and rests with the Jews - as is the case for ALL OT writings.
 
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