Why are you non-denominational?

Andrewn

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As an outsider, I see non-denominational churches as either Baptists or Charismatic Baptists. But, why don't they join one of the multitude of Baptist and Pentecostal denominations out there?

Is it a financial issue, in order to own our church building and not support a denomination? Or is it to be able to hire a pastor without qualifications? Or is it to be able to teach weird doctrine?

Forgive me. I just can't understand.
 

A_Thinker

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As an outsider, I see non-denominational churches as either Baptists or Charismatic Baptists. But, why don't they join one of the multitude of Baptist and Pentecostal denominations out there?

Is it a financial issue, in order to own our church building and not support a denomination? Or is it to be able to hire a pastor without qualifications? Or is it to be able to teach weird doctrine?

Forgive me. I just can't understand.
Despite their appearances, non-denominational are free from many denominational strictures. They may be content to appear to be Baptist ... or not. They exercise the freedom necessary to respond to the movement of God.
 
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Dave G.

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As an outsider, I see non-denominational churches as either Baptists or Charismatic Baptists. But, why don't they join one of the multitude of Baptist and Pentecostal denominations out there?

Is it a financial issue, in order to own our church building and not support a denomination? Or is it to be able to hire a pastor without qualifications? Or is it to be able to teach weird doctrine?

Forgive me. I just can't understand.
This is nothing but a candid slam coming from denominational religious pride.
 
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Andrewn

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This is nothing but a candid slam coming from denominational religious pride.
How do you suppose to know my feelings? Is telepathy a doctrine taught in your congregation?
 
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Daniel9v9

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As an outsider, I see non-denominational churches as either Baptists or Charismatic Baptists. But, why don't they join one of the multitude of Baptist and Pentecostal denominations out there?

Is it a financial issue, in order to own our church building and not support a denomination? Or is it to be able to hire a pastor without qualifications? Or is it to be able to teach weird doctrine?

Forgive me. I just can't understand.

Basically, the non-denominational bodies are a product of the American Restoration Movement, which was driven by Arminian Baptist/Charismatic ideas, or going further back to the Reformation, Zwinglian. The Restoration Movement viewed creeds with great suspicion, and this is something that the non-denominational bodies have inherited. Consequently, they're looser in doctrine.

I think in practice, though, speaking as one who used to attend to non-denominational and Charismatic churches, it's not necessarily recognised by the individual that their doctrine is Baptist/Charismatic. It's simply understood as a kind of neutral but Spirit-led Christianity. Now, given that this thread is posted in the non-denominational section, I'll refrain from any strong criticism, but suffice to say, non-denominational churches certainly do have a distinct theological system, whether or not it's understood by their members. It's somewhat broad and loose, compatible with Baptist and Pentecostal systems. In an organisational sense, they are non-denominational, or individual. But in doctrine, they're not.

Also, it's not unheard of that non-denominational bodies join forces with established denominations. I've seen a couple of churches who, after growing, became a branch of Hillsong Church, for example.

So, in short, I think it's a combination of an inherited opposition to creeds and a desire to operate self-autonomously.

PS: Seeing as you're Anglican, I can add that the Alpha course (low-church Charismatic Anglican) is very popular among non-denominationals.
 
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Dave G.

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How do you suppose to know my feelings? Is telepathy a doctrine taught in your congregation?
Your very questions are an open book by how they were written. I don't believe for a second you're a sloppy writer, so ............

I see that you are fairly new to the forums though so I'll stop here.
 
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Andrewn

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Basically, the non-denominational bodies are a product of the American Restoration Movement, which was driven by Arminian Baptist/Charismatic ideas, or going further back to the Reformation, Zwinglian.
I think Zwingli believed in infant Baptism. So, non-denominational churches would disagree with him.

I think in practice, though, speaking as one who used to attend to non-denominational and Charismatic churches, it's not necessarily recognised by the individual that their doctrine is Baptist/Charismatic. It's simply understood as a kind of neutral but Spirit-led Christianity.
Thank you for the explanation. It looks like most Baptists and Pentecostals are dispensational. Are non-denominational congregations usually dispensational?
 
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Andrewn

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I see that you are fairly new to the forums though so I'll stop here.
Yes, I'm new and I'm here to learn, definitely not to criticize anyone.
 
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Daniel9v9

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I think Zwingli believed in infant Baptism. So, non-denominational churches would disagree with him.

Thank you for the explanation. It looks like most Baptists and Pentecostals are dispensational. Are non-denominational congregations usually dispensational?

Yeah, there's quite a departure from Zwingli to the Baptist or Pentecostal systems. You can perhaps think of Zwinglian doctrine as the germ, which gave rise to Anabaptism, and then much later culminated into what we hear confessed in Charismatic and non-denominational bodies. These bodies are really a combination of many movements, but mostly distinctive to Baptist, Charismatic and the Restoration Movement - but you can follow the trail all the way back to Zwingli (and also Arminius given their Arminian leaning - a reaction against High-Calvinism).

The reason why we can classify the non-denominational (Baptist/Pentecostal) system as belonging to the Zwinglian family is because of its radical views on Baptism and the Eucharist. Zwingli held that the Sacraments are essentially empty signs or rites with no real substance. He understood them as merely outward signs; memorialism. This was a very strong reaction against the Roman system - especially Rome's position on Transubstantiation and Ex Opere Operato (neither of which are not found in Scripture). Calvin was somewhat more moderate, and Luther more conservative. In a nutshell and very oversimplified, you can think of the Baptist, Charismatic, Pentecostal and consequently non-denominational systems as the end result of a more theologically liberal position - by this I don't mean morally liberal, but essentially, these systems have a low view of things such as Baptism and the Eucharist compared to other orthodox branches of Christianity, where the Sacraments occupy a greater importance doctrinally.

Dispensationalists - that's a great question! The short answer is: yes, they are. But again, often unknowingly - at least I was! Dispensationalism gained much popularity through the Scofield Study Bible, but its origin can be found in the Plymouth Brethren. This was a movement marked by its opposition to creeds, denominationalism and ordained ministry; it was a forerunner to non-denominationalism in our day. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Plymouth Brethren introduced some peculiar doctrines into the Church. This was really a result of their unorthodox, and frankly, poor exegesis and extra-Biblical revelation. Think of it this way: A group of people break away from the Church (as a reaction to the perceived dead formalism) to study the Bible in isolation - that is, very far removed from historical Christian exegesis. Dangerously so. Add to this their claim of new revelation or a new understanding of what Scripture means. These things gave rise to new ideas that gained popularity among other free-bodies, and one of the most common doctrines we have as a result is premillennialism; which is widely popular among non-denominationals, and really much of mainline Western Christianity. It's true that some early Church Fathers had Chiliastic ideas (believing in a literal 1000 earthly rule of Christ), but it's important to note that they are very different from what we find today - things like Left Behind etc.

In a word, dispensationalism and contemporary eschatology, though increasingly complex and varied, is very commonly held in the non-denominational bodies. It's not always emphasised to the same degree, but it's certainly something that is lingering in the back of their theological system and does shape their ministry and their understanding of what the Church is - especially in relation to the nation of Israel - but this is felt much stronger in Pentecostal and Charismatic bodies. The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) is a very extreme example of this. Perhaps we could say that dispensationalism is a bit more diluted in the non-denominational system; it's often not systematically or explicitly taught, but more something inherited and taken for granted.
 
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Andrewn

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This is a very informative analysis.
you can follow the trail all the way back to Zwingli (and also Arminius given their Arminian leaning - a reaction against High-Calvinism).
What Arminius did was to formulate the Catholic doctrine in response to Calvinism. I don't think he invented the doctrine attributed to him but that, before him, it was the standard belief of all Christians except Calvinists.

Zwingli held that the Sacraments are essentially empty signs or rites with no real substance. He understood them as merely outward signs; memorialism.
Yes, and this was taken over by Anabaptists, Baptists, Pentecostals, and non-denominationals.

Dispensationalists - that's a great question! The short answer is: yes, they are. But again, often unknowingly - at least I was!
I've noticed that a lot of Baptists & Pentecostals do not know their theology, either. But they consider premillennialism a Biblical fact.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Plymouth Brethren introduced some peculiar doctrines into the Church. This was really a result of their unorthodox, and frankly, poor exegesis and extra-Biblical revelation.
I agree.

In a word, dispensationalism and contemporary eschatology, though increasingly complex and varied, is very commonly held in the non-denominational bodies.
It sounds like they're mostly Charismatic Baptists: being non-sacramental, charismatic, dispensational, Arminianist, Anabaptists. OTOH, most Baptists are non-charismatic and Calvinist.
 
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BNR32FAN

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As an outsider, I see non-denominational churches as either Baptists or Charismatic Baptists. But, why don't they join one of the multitude of Baptist and Pentecostal denominations out there?

Is it a financial issue, in order to own our church building and not support a denomination? Or is it to be able to hire a pastor without qualifications? Or is it to be able to teach weird doctrine?

Forgive me. I just can't understand.

I consider myself a nondenominational because while I agree with many of the Orthodox teachings I prefer to remain neutral on some. Also the church I attend is nondenominational. I stay in my church because I came to Christ there, I can see the Holy Spirit at work there, and I love my church family. I see no reason to leave even tho we disagree on some things.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Yeah, there's quite a departure from Zwingli to the Baptist or Pentecostal systems. You can perhaps think of Zwinglian doctrine as the germ, which gave rise to Anabaptism, and then much later culminated into what we hear confessed in Charismatic and non-denominational bodies. These bodies are really a combination of many movements, but mostly distinctive to Baptist, Charismatic and the Restoration Movement - but you can follow the trail all the way back to Zwingli (and also Arminius given their Arminian leaning - a reaction against High-Calvinism).

The reason why we can classify the non-denominational (Baptist/Pentecostal) system as belonging to the Zwinglian family is because of its radical views on Baptism and the Eucharist. Zwingli held that the Sacraments are essentially empty signs or rites with no real substance. He understood them as merely outward signs; memorialism. This was a very strong reaction against the Roman system - especially Rome's position on Transubstantiation and Ex Opere Operato (neither of which are not found in Scripture). Calvin was somewhat more moderate, and Luther more conservative. In a nutshell and very oversimplified, you can think of the Baptist, Charismatic, Pentecostal and consequently non-denominational systems as the end result of a more theologically liberal position - by this I don't mean morally liberal, but essentially, these systems have a low view of things such as Baptism and the Eucharist compared to other orthodox branches of Christianity, where the Sacraments occupy a greater importance doctrinally.

Dispensationalists - that's a great question! The short answer is: yes, they are. But again, often unknowingly - at least I was! Dispensationalism gained much popularity through the Scofield Study Bible, but its origin can be found in the Plymouth Brethren. This was a movement marked by its opposition to creeds, denominationalism and ordained ministry; it was a forerunner to non-denominationalism in our day. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Plymouth Brethren introduced some peculiar doctrines into the Church. This was really a result of their unorthodox, and frankly, poor exegesis and extra-Biblical revelation. Think of it this way: A group of people break away from the Church (as a reaction to the perceived dead formalism) to study the Bible in isolation - that is, very far removed from historical Christian exegesis. Dangerously so. Add to this their claim of new revelation or a new understanding of what Scripture means. These things gave rise to new ideas that gained popularity among other free-bodies, and one of the most common doctrines we have as a result is premillennialism; which is widely popular among non-denominationals, and really much of mainline Western Christianity. It's true that some early Church Fathers had Chiliastic ideas (believing in a literal 1000 earthly rule of Christ), but it's important to note that they are very different from what we find today - things like Left Behind etc.

In a word, dispensationalism and contemporary eschatology, though increasingly complex and varied, is very commonly held in the non-denominational bodies. It's not always emphasised to the same degree, but it's certainly something that is lingering in the back of their theological system and does shape their ministry and their understanding of what the Church is - especially in relation to the nation of Israel - but this is felt much stronger in Pentecostal and Charismatic bodies. The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) is a very extreme example of this. Perhaps we could say that dispensationalism is a bit more diluted in the non-denominational system; it's often not systematically or explicitly taught, but more something inherited and taken for granted.

I thought nondenominational meant they are not affiliated with the custom beliefs of mainstream denominations of Christianity. Hence they would likely vary in beliefs from one church to another even amongst individuals within the church. Perhaps your speaking of a majority of nondenominational churches?
 
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Andrewn

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Also the church I attend is nondenominational. I stay in my church because I came to Christ there, I can see the Holy Spirit at work there, and I love my church family. I see no reason to leave even tho we disagree on some things.
This sounds wonderful so long you're aware of the theology of your church and you had a chance to compare it to other beliefs.
 
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BNR32FAN

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This sounds wonderful so long you're aware of the theology of your church and you had a chance to compare it to other beliefs.

Yes I did and our disagreement on theology is not really an important matter. I’m reluctant to specify because I don’t want to spark an off topic debate here. Lol
 
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Stone-n-Steel

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Perhaps they wish to follow scriptural example and not associate their faith with an organizational system. The Bible does not say to form corporations and divide yourself from others based on doctrine. Israel created a religious system from what was given to them and we all know how Jesus responded to that.
 
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Andrewn

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Perhaps they wish to follow scriptural example and not associate their faith with an organizational system. The Bible does not say to form corporations and divide yourself from others based on doctrine.
I can understand this. But the potential lack of accountability in theological and financial aspects would make me too uncomfortable to join a non-denominational church.
 
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Tone

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As an outsider, I see non-denominational churches as either Baptists or Charismatic Baptists. But, why don't they join one of the multitude of Baptist and Pentecostal denominations out there?

Is it a financial issue, in order to own our church building and not support a denomination? Or is it to be able to hire a pastor without qualifications? Or is it to be able to teach weird doctrine?

Forgive me. I just can't understand.


I hate politics.
 
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Stone-n-Steel

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I can understand this. But the potential lack of accountability in theological and financial aspects would make me too uncomfortable to join a non-denominational church.

I would hope that you search the scriptures and confirm what is being preached from the pulpit. When you meet Jesus face to face he will not ask you what church doctrine you believed. He will ask you what you did with his message. As far as financial aspects go you feed the group that supplies you good teaching. We are also called to help those who don't have the means.

I don't mean to be rude but is there some church organization that you would trust your eternal soul to?
 
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