Why are very intelligent people usually atheists? It's not as obvious as it seems...

[Notedstrangeperson]

(I was debating whether to start another thread specifically about this topic, but I think it fints in well with the concept of how much "rational thinking" actually contributes to atheism. Plus I have about four different threads going at the minute. )

There is a relationship between education levels and believing in God and this relationship is pretty clear.

There are extremely intelligent people who do believe in God, so although I do think education has an impact on the likelihood of one believing in a God, there are other factors. The most important IMO, is individual psychology and also whether someone is an intuitive thinker, vs an analytical thinker and analytical thinkers are more prone to be non-believers.

With psychology though, we get into complex psyche's that can be difficult to put your finger on and we all have unique psychological needs we try to fulfill and I believe this plays a major role into one chooses to believe in a God or not. And no, I am not saying folks who believe in Gods have psychological problems or are weaker in their psyche, as a belief in a God can just be the right thing for some people, if it makes them a better person and able to cope with life better.

I believe a desire for a certain comfort plays a role and the thought that someone is looking out for you, will help you and you will be rewarded at the end of the day is a compelling one for some. For others, comfort can come from a need for everything to make sense and be supported with objective evidence and when it doesn't, they just can't reconcile the belief in their psyche.

(My emphasis) I did find a very interesting piece of research regarding something like this. It was an excerpt from "Why People Believe Wierd Things" by Michael Shermer:

When Sulloway and I asked our subjects why they believe in God, and why they think other people believe in God (and allowed them to provide written answers), we were inundated with thoughtful and lengthy treatises (many stapled multi-page, type-written answers to their survey) and we discovered that they could be a valuable source of data. Classifying the answers into categories, here was the top reasons given:

Why People Believe in God
​

1. Arguments based on good design/natural beauty/perfection/complexity of the world or universe. (28.6%)
2. The experience of God in everyday life/a feeling that God is in us. (20.6%)\
3. Belief in God is comforting, relieving, consoling, and gives meaning and purpose to life. (10.3%)
4. The Bible says so. (9.8%)
5. Just because/faith/or the need to believe in something. (8.2%)

Why People Think Other People Believe in God
​

1. Belief in God is comforting, relieving, consoling, and gives meaning and purpose to life. (26.3%)
2. Religious people have been raised to believe in God. (22.4%)
3. The experience of God in everyday life/a feeling that God is in us. (16.2%)
4. Just because/faith/or the need to believe in something. (13.0%)
5. People believe because they fear death and the unknown. (9.1%)
6. Arguments based on good design/natural beauty/perfection/complexity of the world or universe. (6.0%)

Note that the intellectually-based reasons for belief in God of “Good design” and “Experience of God,” which were in 1st and 2nd place in the first question of why do you believe in God?, dropped to 6th and 3rd place for the second question of why do you think other people believe in God? Taking their place as the two most common reasons given for why other people believe in God were the emotionally based categories of religion being judged as “comforting” and people having been “raised to believe” in God.

(source: michaelshermer.com)​

​

In other words, believers say they believe in God for rational reasons (such as the complexity of the universe), whereas non-believers say they think other people believe in God for irrational reasons (because it makes them feel nice).

Shermer himself thinks this is caused by "attribution bias": put bluntly, we tend to paint ourselves in a better light than we paint others, even when we're in the exact same situation. In this case, we believe that OUR beliefs are logical whereas other people's beliefs are illogical.

Of course, his study doesn't actually prove who's right - are the theists suffering from attribution bias because they believe they are more rational than atheists, or are the atheists suffering from attribution bias because they believe theists are less rational than they are?​

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

There are extremely intelligent people who do believe in God, so although I do think education has an impact on the likelihood of one believing in a God, there are other factors. The most important IMO, is individual psychology and also whether someone is an intuitive thinker, vs an analytical thinker and analytical thinkers are more prone to be non-believers.

One other thing that would be interesting to find out is whether atheists use more "analytic thinking" only when they are thinking about God. Are they thinking just as analytically when they think about other unproveable things?

One study found that 23% of British atheists said they believe in a human soul, with an additional 22% saying they didn't know. Taken together, that means 45% of British atheists believe it's possible that something like a "soul" actually exists. What's the analytic basis for that?

 

[durangodawood]

If true, it seems odd that highly intelligent people would dismiss the existance of God while at the same time believing in other beings such as the Loch Ness monster, bigfoot, aliens and ghosts (all of which were mentioned in the skeptic.com link in the OP).

Why, for example, dismiss the Bible as being nothing but myth, but believe in stories about bigfoot and ghosts?

The claims of the Bible are subjected to serious scrutiny.... and found lacking by atheists. WHY such scrutiny? Because its our cultures central myth, and therefore important.

Ghosts and bigfoots are simply not important, and so dont get really examined hard by people who LIKE the idea of a world with that sort of "dimension" to it.

 

[bhsmte]

(I was debating whether to start another thread specifically about this topic, but I think it fints in well with the concept of how much "rational thinking" actually contributes to atheism. Plus I have about four different threads going at the minute. )



(My emphasis) I did find a very interesting piece of research regarding something like this. It was an excerpt from "Why People Believe Wierd Things" by Michael Shermer:

When Sulloway and I asked our subjects why they believe in God, and why they think other people believe in God (and allowed them to provide written answers), we were inundated with thoughtful and lengthy treatises (many stapled multi-page, type-written answers to their survey) and we discovered that they could be a valuable source of data. Classifying the answers into categories, here was the top reasons given:

Why People Believe in God
​

1. Arguments based on good design/natural beauty/perfection/complexity of the world or universe. (28.6%)
2. The experience of God in everyday life/a feeling that God is in us. (20.6%)\
3. Belief in God is comforting, relieving, consoling, and gives meaning and purpose to life. (10.3%)
4. The Bible says so. (9.8%)
5. Just because/faith/or the need to believe in something. (8.2%)

Why People Think Other People Believe in God
​

1. Belief in God is comforting, relieving, consoling, and gives meaning and purpose to life. (26.3%)
2. Religious people have been raised to believe in God. (22.4%)
3. The experience of God in everyday life/a feeling that God is in us. (16.2%)
4. Just because/faith/or the need to believe in something. (13.0%)
5. People believe because they fear death and the unknown. (9.1%)
6. Arguments based on good design/natural beauty/perfection/complexity of the world or universe. (6.0%)

Note that the intellectually-based reasons for belief in God of “Good design” and “Experience of God,” which were in 1st and 2nd place in the first question of why do you believe in God?, dropped to 6th and 3rd place for the second question of why do you think other people believe in God? Taking their place as the two most common reasons given for why other people believe in God were the emotionally based categories of religion being judged as “comforting” and people having been “raised to believe” in God.

(source: michaelshermer.com)​

​

In other words, believers say they believe in God for rational reasons (such as the complexity of the universe), whereas non-believers say they think other people believe in God for irrational reasons (because it makes them feel nice).

Shermer himself thinks this is caused by "attribution bias": put bluntly, we tend to paint ourselves in a better light than we paint others, even when we're in the exact same situation. In this case, we believe that OUR beliefs are logical whereas other people's beliefs are illogical.​

Of course, his study doesn't actually prove who's right - are the theists suffering from attribution bias because they believe they are more rational than atheists, or are the atheists suffering from attribution bias because they believe theists are less rational than they are?​

Interesting stuff.

We all want to think we have it right and we will all work to some degree, to convince ourselves we are right, because it helps to protect our psyche. The issues come into play, when someone will go to great lengths to protect a position and this causes them to either ignore reality, go into serious, confirmation bias, selective reasoning and denial.

The subject of "psychology of belief" is a fascinating one and a topic I have explored quite deeply.

 

[bhsmte]

One other thing that would be interesting to find out is whether atheists use more "analytic thinking" only when they are thinking about God. Are they thinking just as analytically when they think about other unproveable things?

One study found that 23% of British atheists said they believe in a human soul, with an additional 22% saying they didn't know. Taken together, that means 45% of British atheists believe it's possible that something like a "soul" actually exists. What's the analytic basis for that?

I have read material in which groups of people where given intuitive vs analytical thinking tests and the group that thought more analytically in general, tended to be more likely to be a non-believer.

The 23% that believe in the human soul is interesting and reminds me of a study Daniel Dennet quoted from the UK, in which Christians were asked whether they believed Jesus was God, and 50% of the Christians said no. Now, the obvious question is, how many Christians are really in the UK, if 50% of them don't think Jesus was God?

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

The 23% that believe in the human soul is interesting and reminds me of a study Daniel Dennet quoted from the UK, in which Christians were asked whether they believed Jesus was God, and 50% of the Christians said no. Now, the obvious question is, how many Christians are really in the UK, if 50% of them don't think Jesus was God?

It probably sounds ridiculous to a non-believer, but the idea of whether Jesus was "God" has been one of debate among Christians for centuries. Some believe Jesus was God Himself in human form. Some believe that Jesus was the son of God - a human being blessed with divine powers, since he was conceived by the Holy Spirit. It wouldn't be all that odd to hear even the most devout Christians say that Jesus wasn't actually God.

Again, it probably sounds rather ridiculous to a non-believer, but we all know the way a question is worded can affect the results. I think if the question was "Was Jesus the son of God?" the results would have been much higher than 50%.

As an added bonus, the same survey I mentioned earlier found that 7% of British atheists believed Jesus was resurrected from the dead, with an additonal 4% say they didn't know. So that's one-in-ten atheists who believe in the possibility Jesus was raised from the dead.

 

[bhsmte]

It probably sounds ridiculous to a non-believer, but the idea of whether Jesus was "God" has been one of debate among Christians for centuries. Some believe Jesus was God Himself in human form. Some believe that Jesus was the son of God - a human being blessed with divine powers, since he was conceived by the Holy Spirit. It wouldn't be all that odd to hear even the most devout Christians say that Jesus wasn't actually God.

Again, it probably sounds rather ridiculous to a non-believer, but we all know the way a question is worded can affect the results. I think if the question was "Was Jesus the son of God?" the results would have been much higher than 50%.

As an added bonus, the same survey I mentioned earlier found that 7% of British atheists believed Jesus was resurrected from the dead, with an additonal 4% say they didn't know. So that's one-in-ten atheists who believe in the possibility Jesus was raised from the dead.

Yes, how the question is posed can have a fairly significant impact on how it is answered.

The other factor quite frankly is; the intellect level of the people being asked.

 

[MikeCarra]

Intelligence is a quality, not a quantity. You can start to reason from here.
If you are intelligent, am I more intelligent than you? I am not sure, it depends.

I don't know if I am more or less so than anyone else, but that doesn't really change my points much.

 

[MikeCarra]

Easy. You want to tell others who believes in Bob that they are wrong.
Because you know you are right.

What makes you think I believe I am right? I simply see no reason to believe Bob Smith exists. And since I can't defend a universal negative claim why would I try to tell these people they are wrong?

This is the basic difference between faith and no faith.
Faith is neutral.
No-faith has a "no" in front of it, and so it is offensive.

So if I fail to believe in something that you simply have faith is real, then I'm the one who is taking an action, right?



I think my brain is bleeding now.

 

[juvenissun]

The claims of the Bible are subjected to serious scrutiny.... and found lacking by atheists. WHY such scrutiny? Because its our cultures central myth, and therefore important.

Ghosts and bigfoots are simply not important, and so dont get really examined hard by people who LIKE the idea of a world with that sort of "dimension" to it.

No no. They are VERY important. They are as important as God, or even more important than God to atheists. Do you know Daoism is a religion of ghost?

 

[juvenissun]

What makes you think I believe I am right? I simply see no reason to believe Bob Smith exists. And since I can't defend a universal negative claim why would I try to tell these people they are wrong?



So if I fail to believe in something that you simply have faith is real, then I'm the one who is taking an action, right?



I think my brain is bleeding now.

That says you think you are right.

Bleeding is fine, as not as it is not blocked.

 

[durangodawood]

No no. They are VERY important. They are as important as God, or even more important than God to atheists. Do you know Daoism is a religion of ghost?

I'm talking more about what I know: typical modern western atheists.

For those believers in ghosts and bigfoots, the attitude is more like "sure, I think they exist, but I dont really know." AND, it doesnt affect their life either way in day-to-day sense. So, not important.

There are exceptions of course, but I think I'm correct for the typical case.

 

[juvenissun]

I'm talking more about what I know: typical modern western atheists.

For those believers in ghosts and bigfoots, the attitude is more like "sure, I think they exist, but I dont really know." AND, it doesnt affect their life either way in day-to-day sense. So, not important.

There are exceptions of course, but I think I'm correct for the typical case.

It may. All the horror movies, vampire movies are about the idea of ghost. People liked them, talked about them, and I believe, many believed in them. In fact, ghost is MORE realistic than God to many people "in real life".

 

[Smidlee]

How can one be against that which they don't believe is real?

I'm DEFINITELY anti-unicorn. Those things are just nasty.

What do you have against unicorns?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

(If you don't fancy wading through endless quotes and web sources, just skip to the bottom. )

Intelligence is positively correlated with atheism. In other words, the smarter a person is, the less likely they are to believe in God:...........................
To cut a long post short...

If people who are highly intelligent or better educated are less likely to believe in God because they think rationally, why are they MORE likely to have other irrational beliefs than people who are less intelligent or have less education?

What irrational beliefs do they have?



.

 

[Belk]

<Snip for brevity>

• Highly intelligent people are just as prone to congitive bias:

"In one study, subjects read about a controversial issue, such as whether or not people should be allowed to sell their own organs. Then, they wrote their thoughts about it. The researchers found the typical cognitive bias. People mostly wrote arguments favoring their own position. They did not tend to integrate arguments across different perspectives. The researchers also assessed intelligence. They found that people who scored more highly on the intelligence test showed just as much of the cognitive bias as the rest."
(source: globalcognition.org)
​

• Highly educated people are MORE likely to fall for investment scams:

"Many scam victims are pretty smart. Three studies in 2006 and 2007 of identified investment-fraud victims and randomly selected participants&#8212;carried out by the Finra foundation, WISE Senior Services of Los Angeles and AARP Washington State&#8212;found that victims of investment fraud tend to be better educated than nonvictims, have higher incomes and have been investing for a decade or more. But they are so confident in their judgment that they fail to seek out professional or other opinions."
(source: WallStreet Journal [cached])
​

• Doctors in particular have a reputation for being bad investors:

"The analytical-test results of people like [the hypothetical] Dr. Heart indicate that he's close to genius level. So perhaps he doesn't need any advisers. Perhaps he thinks he's smarter than any adviser. So why spend time and money dealing with these people? When it comes to investing, some people do think they are, financially speaking, immortal. Being very, very intelligent may have some drawbacks. Most high-income people with average to above-average intellect realize they aren't brilliant, but the majority have great common or practical intelligence. They know their strengths and weaknesses and act accordingly. They never make major investment decisions without first seeking advice from skilled professionals."
(source: medicaleconomics.moderdmedicine.com)
​

• With the exception of God Himself, highly educated people are are just as likely (if not MORE likely) to believe in the supernatural and paranormal:

"While 23 percent of college freshmen expressed a general belief in paranormal concepts &#8212; from astrology to communicating with the dead &#8212; 31 percent of seniors did so, and the figure jumped to 34 percent among graduate students. "As people attain higher college-education levels, the likelihood of believing in paranormal dimensions increases," Farha and Steward write."
(source: nbcnews.com)

"These results are consistent with the notion that having a strong scientific knowledge base is not enough to insulate a person against irrational beliefs. Students who scored well on these tests were no more or less skeptical of pseudoscientific claims than students who scored very poorly. Apparently, the students were not able to apply their scientific knowledge to evaluate these pseudoscientific claims. We suggest that this inability stems in part from the way that science is traditionally presented to students: Students are taught what to think but not how to think."
(source: skeptic.com)
​

---

To cut a long post short...

If people who are highly intelligent or better educated are less likely to believe in God because they think rationally, why are they MORE likely to have other irrational beliefs than people who are less intelligent or have less education?

Do you want to talk about intelligence or education? Or perhaps you feel they are so closely linked as to be inconsequential?

And just to point out people who are intelligernt and/or educated are no more or less rational then anyone else. As the first link pointed out they are just as prone to cognitive bias as everyone else.