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Why are there still apes?

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by doubtingmerle, Sep 5, 2020.

  1. doubtingmerle

    doubtingmerle I'll think about it. Supporter

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    If people evolved from apes, why are there still apes?

    Short answer: Because apes have found a different method of survival.

    Long answer: Because a rift valley opened up in Africa, allowing some apes* to move out of the forest into the new valley. Away from the trees, they found it helpful to stand erect. This gave them more efficient movement, the ability to use their hands for new functions, and the ability to see above the tall grass. Why didn't all creatures do this? Because there was also a good living to be made in the forest, which did not require this.

    Some of these creatures lost some of their sense of sight and smell in order to develop cognitive brainpower. They were living in a new environment, and needed to figure out how to survive. Why didn't all creatures do this? Back in the forest, the sense of smell and sight were far too important for frivolous things like cognition.

    Some of these creatures started to grow their brains larger after birth. This kept the head small enough to pass through the birth canal, but gave them cognitive advantages as adults. Why didn't all creatures do this? Brain development after birth slowed maturity. Other creatures did not have the net species brainpower needed to survive well while spending long periods caring for helpless infants.

    Some of these creatures started to use simple tools in new, creative ways. Why didn't all creatures do this? They were not smart enough.

    Some of these creatures saw sparks when they struck stones together, and learned how to harness them to make fires for warmth and protection. Why didn't all creatures do this? They did not have the brainpower, tools, or available hands.

    Some of these creatures lost their hair and developed strong sweat glands. This allowed them to chase prey for a long time in the hot sun until the prey collapsed in exhaustion. Why didn't all creatures do this? They did not have fire and animal skins to keep them warm at nights, so they needed their hair.

    Some of these creatures began to use fires to cook, making their food safer and easier to digest. Why didn't all creatures do this? They didn't know how to make fires.

    Some of these creatures spent many hours talking about things around the campfire while their food cooked. They developed complex brains to understand complex communications. Why didn't all creatures do this? Their brains were too small to understand language.

    Some of these creatures used their brain power to get more protein, so they could grow bigger brains, so they could get more protein, so they could get bigger brains, etc. Why didn't all creatures do this? They had been left out of this arms race long ago.

    Some of these creatures learned to gossip. Gossiping left everybody know who they could trust and who they could not trust. They learned to build complex relationships based on freely helping each other. Then they would talk about who responded with reciprocity and who did not. If they tried to cheat, somebody would tell on them. Why didn't all creatures gossip? Gossiping requires brainpower.

    Some of these creatures developed complex math skills. For instance, they learned to calculate the tide schedule, so they would leave the safety of their caves only in that short period of time when the tide made it optimal to find shellfish on the beach. Why didn't all creatures do this? Math is not for dummys.

    Some of these creatures dominated the available resources, leaving intermediates and other competitors to die out for lack of resources. Why didn't all the competitors do this? They would have if they could have.

    These surviving creatures became modern humans.

    Meanwhile, the great apes stayed in the forest, remaining quite adept at a totally different lifestyle.

    And that is why there are humans, and there are still apes.

    ================
    * Yes, I know, we did not evolve from modern apes. But we evolved from creatures that, if they were alive today, would be classified as apes.

    Edit added 9/7/2020: Each of the steps listed above have scientific evidence. The actual details, reasons, and path may have been somewhat different than what is listed here. We are still learning. This was not intended to be a final, exact listing of the pathway to humanity. It is a listing of my understanding of the best evidenced pathway we now know.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
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  2. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    Your OP reads like Lamarkianism, even though I'm sure you intend the standard Evolutionist narrative of genetics with environmental pressure etc.
     
  3. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    But the real question is can these apes be saved? Or has the Church missed out on the opportunity of Ape Evangelism? :)
     
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  4. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Why would apes move out of their ecological niche ... "away from the trees," as you put it ... into a new territory that would require them to change their posture?
     
  5. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for traveling back into time from your time machine to confirm this yourself so that you can share this wonderful information that you are completely sure is 100% true.
     
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  6. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Earth's history has been "photoshopped."

    And not for clarity, either.

    In force-fitting Earth's history into evolutionsim, one has to rule out anything to the contrary.
     
  7. IntriKate

    IntriKate Active Member

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    Cool story
     
  8. doubtingmerle

    doubtingmerle I'll think about it. Supporter

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    Don't go by what I write, go by what I intend. ;)
     
  9. Shemjaza

    Shemjaza Regular Member Supporter

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    Because it was there an nothing stopped them. Same things animals do everywhere when the environment changes or they are introduced to a new location.

    Dogs, rabbits, water buffalo, camels and horses quickly moved into the wilds of Australia after humans brought them here.
    It's pretty cool... it also helps that it checks out with the genetic and fossil evidence left behind.
     
  10. doubtingmerle

    doubtingmerle I'll think about it. Supporter

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    That is the nature of animals, to move into every available niche available. This new valley probably offered them new sources of food. As the valley was created new, perhaps it did not yet have the predators that would usually be found out in the grasslands.
     
  11. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Why didn't they go back? especially if they were required to change their posture so drastically?
    Blame it on the weather! ;)
     
  12. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Sorry, this sounds too hoaxy to accept.

    I could accept they going into an available niche for new sources of food, then bringing it home to eat.

    But moving there for life sounds off the wall.

    "Hey, kids! We're all moving far away! That new restaurant that just opened up has food that is just out of this jungle! We'll have to stand at the table and eat ... no chairs ... but hey! It's worth a permanent move!"
     
  13. doubtingmerle

    doubtingmerle I'll think about it. Supporter

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    To most apes, yes, moving out of the jungle into the plains was stupid. They had everything they needed in the jungle.

    But others were up to the adventure. Just like the occasional bear will wander into the suburbs, or the European settlers sailed to America, there is always somebody who is going to take advantage of the different opportunity when it presents itself.
     
  14. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Sorry ... not buying it.

    It's one thing to climb down out of a tree and go exploring in a grassy field, where you have to stand erect for awhile.

    But to pack up and migrate out of the trees into that area, where you'll have to stand 24/7 or get eaten, that's just plain off the chart.
     
  15. doubtingmerle

    doubtingmerle I'll think about it. Supporter

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    You are not buying it......yet.

    I never imagined your change of view would come quickly. ;)
     
  16. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    All it would take is a handful of apes unable to get back to their home. You can’t think of any scenarios that could cause that? Getting lost? Natural disaster blocking the route? Predators that wouldn’t let them pass?
     
  17. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Wouldn't that constitute a mini bottleneck?

    "Hey! We're lost! We've been cut off by a natural disaster, and there are predators all around us!

    Quick! Let's start procreating!"
     
  18. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Assumes facts not in evidence.
     
  19. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    So you can imagine a scenario?
     
  20. Shemjaza

    Shemjaza Regular Member Supporter

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    You are thinking of a single group of apes... Think instead of the apes expanding into a new territory. Many generations.
     
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