• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Why are so many people so bad?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by dysert, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. dysert

    dysert Member

    +2,070
    Christian
    Married
    This is a serious question. Let's pretend, for the sake of this thread, that there is no spiritual realm and there was no Fall. What reason do people give for the abundance of bad people? Thieves, liars, sexual predators, murderers, etc. It's rife, and it's non-stop. In the absence of a spiritual realm, why are so many people so bad?
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Dirk1540

    Dirk1540 Let Go Supporter

    +9,406
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    You need to relax and open your eyes to reality! This is nothing more than the way in which each person's brain molecules bounce around...says the materialist. The same materialist who would be strangely full of rage at these evil deeds, instead of admitting that it's just molecular movements lol.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Look! Its like thr Nothing never was.

    151
    +59
    United States
    Buddhist
    Private
    Well, I feel if one is absent of the spiritual realm however defined or lack of morals to guide them, it can lead to bad deeds such as killing and stealing etc. Not specifically because that is what they are programed to do. I can get up right now, go to an imaginary bank, steal money, and this would be my choice. Nothing took my hand or make my brain do something it didnt want to do.

    Without direction or making a direction for oneself, societal norms in some countries can find fault in a person who doesnt follow the guidelines. In America we have to follow christian worldview. All those nonchristian have sinned without sinning just by being alive. Our religious critieria for those who have religion imposed on them can cause them tondo bad things. But those same bad things we see here, say animal sacrifice for remission of sins is put down while people in africa follow this in their various religions without harming a soul.

    Its all in perspective. If there were no christian structure in the states, its probably more about what people choose to do themselves. Our laws say innocent until proven guilty. Thats the ideal. Christianity says guilty until proven innocent. So, it could be backlash on morals people dont want to live by that and politics have a lot involved.

    I feel without that spiritual realm, there isnt much guidance If one doesnt want to do the hardwork themselves. People give up. I witnessed my frien's repentence. She was Muslim and became christian. She said there was "something" she needed to do but couldnt figure what. She went tonthe gas station and told the guy behind the counter she gave her lofe to christ. He asked, "did you repent of your sins?" Thats what was missing.

    Without religion or a moral structure, people simply give up.
     
  4. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

    +489
    Non-Denom
    Married
    1 Peter chapter 1 verse 18
    For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors,

    You only change if your born of God.

    1 John chapter 4 verse 7
    Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
     
  5. dysert

    dysert Member

    +2,070
    Christian
    Married
    While I appreciate your reply, it violates the assumptions set out in the OP. Without the Bible, why are so many people so bad?
     
  6. dysert

    dysert Member

    +2,070
    Christian
    Married
    If we add the assumption that evolution is valid, does it predict that there are always going to be bad people?
     
  7. evoeth

    evoeth Man trying to figure things out

    954
    +756
    Atheist
    Married
    People want things. Some people want different things and disregard others in the process. It's not complicated.
     
  8. Dirk1540

    Dirk1540 Let Go Supporter

    +9,406
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Are you referring to evolutionary survival of the fittest? I have several problems with evolution as an explanation for evil, but not sure which direction you're going.

    As for the spiritual realm being responsible for evil, I think that just moves the problem from location 'A' to location 'B.' I much rather like comparing humans to other self aware life forms on Earth (but of lower levels of self awareness).
     
  9. dysert

    dysert Member

    +2,070
    Christian
    Married
    I think it is complicated. Say I want to "take advantage" of a pretty woman and disregard her feelings (and the law). First, why do I want to do that? What makes me want to place my feelings above hers? I think badness (I won't say evil since we're pretending the spiritual real doesn't exist) is complicated and am inclined to what to explore it.
     
  10. evoeth

    evoeth Man trying to figure things out

    954
    +756
    Atheist
    Married
    That's a question that still exists regardless of framework.

    It's an observation that people have different preferences. I'm not pretending to explain why.
     
  11. Chesterton

    Chesterton Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding

    +13,577
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    If there's no spiritual realm, then the idea of "bad" becomes meaningless. The right question then would be "Why do we feel so many people are bad".
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  12. JackRT

    JackRT Gargoyle at Oxford University Supporter

    +9,224
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    Evolution has shaped both our bodies but also our minds and our instincts. We evolved in a very difficult and dangerous world where survival of self and family was all important. Some have called this our "selfish gene". That has survived until the present day when it is no longer so important. What Christian theologians call "the seven deadly sins" all come back to one aspect or another of this selfishness. It can be overcome but when threats arise it still kicks in again. One of the biggest and most intractable threats is poverty.
     
  13. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

    +2,556
    Canada
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    Sociologists have been saying for years it's because too many people are in the same place.
     
  14. Dirk1540

    Dirk1540 Let Go Supporter

    +9,406
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Yes, it is simply badness. It would be putting your moment of pleasure above her lifelong tramatic event. I actually don't think it's complicated, I think it SEEMS complicated when people try to over intellectualize it, instead of the KISS method, which I think is this...

    I believe in the reactionary definition of right/wrong, as opposed to the verbal definition of right/wrong. The verbal definition is this, let's all sit in a classroom, and when the psychology teacher calls on you please explain to the class what YOUR definitions are.

    The reactionary definition is this, let's see how each person in the class REACTS to 'Fill in the blank' being done to them. The direction in which each classmate's right/wrong internal morality guage moves AS 'Fill in the blank' is being done to them defines their true definition of right/wrong, NOT what they verbally tell you is their definition of right or wrong. Let's see how the rapist reacts while being raped. The guy who rationalizes why he steals things, let's see his reaction when he opens his door and sees that he has been robbed, etc. Do their reactions tell us that they believe that rape or theft is not wrong?

    There is a caveat also, a person's INNATE reactionary definition is what's key here. There are lots of demented practices that can become pleasurable/acceptable to humans. Things like indoctrination, a personal crisis, a person experimenting with freaky things and going further & further with it. There would also be the rare caveat of the full blown psychopath. It's pretty safe to say that a person who enjoys being raped and punched in the face during sex did not start out with those innate feelings (which sadly are the perversions that some people have).
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  15. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,330
    Christian
    Private
    US-Green
    I have discussed this subject with a friend and I keep telling him that my view is that too few people fear God's judgment after death anymore and this statement comes from a Christian who is unable to affirm that Hell is necessarily forever. However, whether Hell exists or whether or not it is eternal, I have no doubt at all that "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reapeth". One way or another, we will all get paid back for the good and the evil that we have committed in this life.
     
  16. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

    +5,530
    Pentecostal
    Single
    If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

    Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

    And there are three varieties...

    Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
    Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
    Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

    Comparing the light and the darkness, the opposite of E/c2 would be z (absolute zero)/ c (darkness)...

    Natural z/d - Nothing, empty space.
    Mental z/d - Again nothing but empty space.
    Spiritual z/d - z (laziness, coldness, hatred / d (fear, despair, greed, sorrow)

    There is yet a third energy...

    The flesh - Human ego. I have heard that the flesh and the devil are so akin that it is hard to discern between the two.

    Mix the flesh and the darkness and you have a wicked combination!
     
  17. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

    +3,207
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    The Bible calls them the "weeds" they are children of satan.

    On the other hand, there are people who would choose to do the right thing even if heaven or hell, nor religion never existed. They are the children of God.

    Remember, Jesus came for the "lost sheep". Only the children of God would believe the true Jesus. The rest might think they believe (false conversion) but will be turned away by Christ (Matthew 7:22-23)
     
  18. Oseas

    Oseas Member

    354
    +28
    Brazil
    Christian
    Married
    What does the Word of God reveal unto us about this matter? See below the vision of the evil days of the present time, and know the why of these days be so evil.
    Luke 17:28-30
    28
    Likewise as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
    29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
    30 Even thus shall it be in the day
    when the Son of man is revealed.

    1The.1:7-10
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when
    the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8
    In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9
    Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

    Genesis 6:5-8 -
    5 And
    God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
    6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth...
    7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth
    8
    But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

    Gen. 13:12-13 -
    12 Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched his tent toward Sodom.
    13
    But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord EXCEEDINGLY.

    Genesis 18:16-17&20-22
    16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
    17 And the Lord said,
    Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
    20 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
    21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
    22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom:

    Genesis 19:12-13&24-25&29
    12 And the men said unto Lot,
    Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
    13 For
    we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it.
    24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;
    25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities,
    and that which grew upon the ground.
    29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.

    Eph. 5:11-17
    11 And
    have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
    12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
    13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
    14 Wherefore he saith,
    Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
    15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
    16
    Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
    17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

    2Timothy 3:1-5
    This know also, that
    in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: f
    rom such turn away.

    2Ti.4:3-4

    3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
    4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


    Revelation 21:8
    8
    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    Isaiah 33:10-14
    10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.
    11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you. 12
    And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire. 13 Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might. 14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with everlasting fire?
     
  19. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

    +1,956
    Seeker
    Single
    Pretty much no materialist says that.
     
  20. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

    +1,956
    Seeker
    Single
    Is there really such a thing? Is God having children here, and over there Satan is having children too?
     
Loading...