Why are God and the Bible mostly a package deal?

Albion

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No I agree, just like grammar flaws don't make an argument incorrect. But once this possibility is established, how do you decide which parts are "true" and which are not?
Well, look, I'm not a linguist, theologian, or Bible translator. I have read a fair amount about the meaning of terms and customs in the Bible, of geographical or historical references, and all of that; but I cannot defend--on the spot--every question about the accuracy of every piece of information that's in the Bible. You asked, in effect, if I find the Bible to be credible, and I have satisfied myself that it seems to be so. I do know also that it is quite different in character from the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita and other books that it is compared with by people.
 
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Albion

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I understand that once someone has the belief that the Bible is from God, he will live by it.
The part I don't understand is, how you know that the Bible explains how to become saved and not, let's say, the Koran.
You didn't address that to me, but since you've given us a 'one on one' comparison to make, you know that the Bible is the record of a people and God covering thousands of years and events that history has verified. And the Koran? It's essentially the work of Mohammad, written after he encountered Christianity and Judaism. He then synthesized parts of both with the Arabic paganism of his boyhood, added commentary about politics, social behavior, personal habits, etc. etc. along with commentary ON those other religions. Do you see the difference which, to me, is obvious?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I don't view the Bible as a source of truth and would agree that it's circular logic to say that the Bible is divinely inspired because it says that it is. My belief in classical theism is mostly based on philosophical grounds and personal intuition, so to what degree the Bible is true is a secondary issue.
Does it matter to YHWH why anyone rejects His Word ?
His Judgment is Perfect and Just, Righteous in every way.
 
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Silmarien

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Does it matter to YHWH why anyone rejects His Word ?
His Judgment is Perfect and Just, Righteous in every way.

Not sure what's righteous about expecting people to jump through hoops of circular logic to end up at a particular theory of inspiration. Not viewing the Bible as a source of truth doesn't mean viewing it as untrue, however. Record, not source. If you want to play by Islam's rules, go for it, but when Christianity talks about the Word, it's not referring to Scripture.
 
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Acts2:38

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The part I don't understand is, how you know that the Bible explains how to become saved and not, let's say, the Koran.

Oh I see. An example off the top of my head, is does it contradict itself. The bible does not, the koran does. Of all the books of the bible, none of them contradict each other. They all are in harmony with each other. What is more amazing is they are all written in different time periods and still do not contradict.

The koran is based upon one mans testimony that contradicts and has flaws. The koran is about the same as Mormonism, off one mans testimony and creation of their own "gospel", full of flaws.

There is tons of information of comparisons online and too much information to post here except for my small example. I apologize if it is too broad/vague.

I think calling atheism a belief is a common misconception. A lack of belief is not the same thing as believing the opposite.
Atheists try to only base their opinions on facts, on what they know. Knowing and believing are essentially different things, although a person can be just as sure of his case when he knows as when he believes.

I understand what you are trying to say. However, think of it this way:

1. It takes faith to believe that everything came from nothing (Big Bang theory).

2. It takes faith to believe that life came from non-living material (abiogenesis).

3. It takes faith to believe in molecules-to-man evolution.

These are the three pillars of the atheists' view of origins, and yet none of these can be observed, tested, repeated or proven by scientists today.

Also, take into consideration, Laws which Atheists agree to accept as science:
Law of Causality
Law of Biogenesis
1st and 2nd Law of Thermodynamics

#1- Law of Causality : In essence, it states there must be an adequate cause for every effect. This principle is the basis of scientific inquiry. Natural science deals with the material universe and correctly looks for natural causes to natural events. Scientists properly attribute an earthquake to the movement of tectonic plates. Whether the hand of God is behind it is not their business as scientists.

But natural causes can only explain so much. Eventually, one is forced back to the uncaused First Cause. It is the ageless question, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" The backward chain of events must come to rest somewhere.

#2 One of the basic principles of biology is The Law of Biogenesis: "Thus far, life seems to come only from prior life in an unbroken chain, at least under conditions that prevail at present on earth". The fact is, there is no compelling evidence that life can possibly come from non life under any conditions, and the evidence is against the existence in ancient times of the imagined conditions under which life might supposedly have evolved by natural means. The consistent result of hundreds of years of experimentation about the origin of life has been and continues to be that life comes only from prior life.

Either life exists on the earth, or it does not. Again, to be rational, we accept the existence of life on Earth.

Further, either life has always existed on earth, or it had a beginning. Since life and the earth are parts of the universe, which had to have a beginning, life had to have begun here sometime.

Finally, either life came from natural causes or supernatural. The consistent experience of science is that life does not naturally arise from non life, nor has any experiment ever been conducted under any conditions, which demonstrates that it can. Thus, if we are reasonable, we must accept a supernatural origin of life on earth.

#3 The First Law of Thermodynamics. This law "states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed but can be changed in form". High school chemistry students learn to balance chemical equations. Everything that goes into the chemical process must be accounted for in the product. Nothing comes out of a chemical process that was not put into it, and whatever is put into the process comes out in one form or another.

The First Law precludes the reasonable possibility that energy came into being by natural causes; since, in the natural world, "energy can neither be created nor destroyed."

The second law of Thermodynamics. This important principle of physics holds that energy tends to dissipate itself ... In other words, the second law relates energy changes in a system to the organization of that system. Placed in this context, it states that there is an increase in entropy (disorder or randomness) - that is, a decrease in organization. Since useful energy is organized energy, an increase in entropy means a decrease in useful energy.

According to the Second Law, usable energy in a closed system tends to decrease. Things tend to disorder, not to order. As we drive our cars down the highway, we don't stop to let gasoline (the energy source) out; rather, we must stop to put more in. The usable energy is converted to motion and heat.

Either the material universe does exist, or it does not. Of course, to be rational, we must accept its real existence. Otherwise, there is no such thing as science, the study of the material universe; and our senses, upon which we depend to gain all accurate information, are totally untrustworthy.

Further, either the physical universe has always existed, or it had a beginning. The cosmos has an immeasurably huge amount of usable energy. Our sun, one small star among numberless stars that compose the Milky Way galaxy, itself one of myriads of galaxies, converts 4,700,000 tons of its own mass into radiant energy each second. If the universe were infinitely old, all usable energy would have dissipated in the infinite past. Thus, the cosmos had a beginning.

Atheists once looked to matter and energy as the uncaused first causes. Recent research in nuclear physics has further revealed the very essence of matter. Physicists now describe energy particles which compose electrons, protons, and neutrons; which, in turn, are the components of the atom. In other words, behind all matter is energy. Before there was matter, there was energy. The only prime mover Atheists can propose is mindless energy.

The question, then, is: Is mindless energy an adequate first cause? Either energy is the uncaused first cause; or there must be a supernatural, i.e., outside and above the realm of the natural, uncaused first cause. But, since energy cannot be infinitely old (Second Law, i.e., entropy), energy cannot be the uncaused first cause. Therefore, we must look for a supernatural origin of the universe.

How does one explain such order in diversity (ie our solar system, galaxy, etc)? Energy is the only answer available to the Atheist. The universe as a whole must be viewed as a closed system, and energy in a closed system tends to disorder, not order (Second Law). Thus, again we are forced to look for a supernatural beginning of the cosmos.

So, if Atheist were to base their "belief" on facts of things known, then these laws of science, among others, conflict with which they believe.

However, I believe I am getting ahead of myself and too bold in my approach. I do not wish to cause you any offense. Tell me if I am, as I wish to keep good relations with one so kind in this discussion.

I must go for now, but I wish you a wonderful day/night my dear friend.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Does it matter to YHWH why anyone rejects His Word ?
His Judgment is Perfect and Just, Righteous in every way.
YHWH does not agree with men.
Not sure what's righteous about expecting people to jump through hoops of circular logic to end up at a particular theory of inspiration. Not viewing the Bible as a source of truth doesn't mean viewing it as untrue, however. Record, not source. If you want to play by Islam's rules, go for it, but when Christianity talks about the Word, it's not referring to Scripture.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I am trying to gain a better of understanding of the thought process of Christians (or people with similar religions), as I might go somewhere in the near future where atheism isn't as accepted as where I live now. That way I might avoid offending people when conversing about the subject religion.
I can understand how someone would come to believe in a god, heaven and hell, I mean just general ideas that explain the world or make it easier to live on it.
What I have difficulties with, is how this is linked to the belief that the Bible (or another holy book) is a source of truth. As far as I know, every link from God to the Bible is written in the Bible. Therefore arguments supporting that the Bible contains God's word go in circles.
Certain godly experiences are also often a reason for religion, but I have never heard of these experiences including the Bible in particular.
What are your thoughts?

Hello Bymay,

I'm very appreciative of efforts by others to try to understand how Christians think and how they arrive at their 'faith' in God. The only thing is, there isn't exactly 'one way' that Christians think about the psychological and theological structure(s) of their faith. It can often be different somewhat from one Christian to another, and from one denomination to another denomination. So, if you're really wanting to find this out...you have your work cut out for you, Bymay. And I don't say that as an insult or a challenge. It's just a friendly FYI. ;)

Personally for me, there are a lot of topics that come together in a confluence of thought which all bring me up to a point where I have 'faith' in God and which enable me to see the Bible as a spiritually cogent book, even though I realize it is not inerrant. And in my case, it probably also helps that I approach my faith very philosophically, as a form of spiritual exploration and ongoing learning rather than an arrival at an intellectual destination. I like to think of Christianity as a cruise-ship rather than a stationary hotel.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid
 
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crossnote

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We don't come to God by our own intellect, wisdom, conniving or cunningness. It's a process He puts us through humbling our egos (self), stripping us of self sufficiency and opening our eyes to our sinfulness. Then and only then do we sense our need for a Savior and then is when He reveals His Son as crucified for our sins...Our Remedy and Advocate.
 
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FireDragon76

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Your take on the cosmological argument is incomplete. We do not believe God came into existence. That is one of the basic things of monotheism, God is uncaused, everything else that exists is merely contingent. But God is a necessary being.

It might be hard for you to believe. But that's because God is qualitatively different from anything else you've experienced, God is bigger than your mind or thoughts are capable of being.

In the Lutheran tradition we teach that the Bible is authoritative because Jesus testifies to the Law and the Prophets, and because the other writings of the New Testament are deemed to be apostolic in origin or useful for teaching. Whether or not this leads to a particular doctrine of biblical inerrancy is debatable. But it does make the Bible at least somewhat authoritative, even if the ultimate authority is Jesus Christ.
 
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Bymay

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I'm comfortable saying that some cultures' mythology is more theologically accurate than others
When would you call something theologically accurate? I'm not sure what you mean by this.

It's not terribly important if you just want to avoid offending people, though. Unless you end up in spats over the definition of God, that is.
No it's actually not only that, but also general curiosity

I cannot defend--on the spot--every question about the accuracy of every piece of information that's in the Bible.
And I wouldn't ask you to. Although I am fully convinced of the scientific aproach of knowledge, I can not tell you about the scientific credibility of every theory either.

You asked, in effect, if I find the Bible to be credible, and I have satisfied myself that it seems to be so.
Can you tell me the most important reason(s) for this? I understand this may be a complicated question.
 
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Bymay

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God is not just an earlier step on the causal chain, but the thing holding the whole chain together. Not another being in a universe of beings, but being itself.

But natural causes can only explain so much. Eventually, one is forced back to the uncaused First Cause. It is the ageless question, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" The backward chain of events must come to rest somewhere.

Your take on the cosmological argument is incomplete. We do not believe God came into existence. That is one of the basic things of monotheism, God is uncaused, everything else that exists is merely contingent. But God is a necessary being.
This is very hard for me to understand scientifically, as well as theologically. I think humans are not capable of understanding these things at all. Saying: the 'what came before' question is an endless paradox, so nothing came before God, he is causeless, seems too easy to me, if you know what I mean.
It might be hard for you to believe. But that's because God is qualitatively different from anything else you've experienced, God is bigger than your mind or thoughts are capable of being.
I actually agree with this, but then about the universe. I don't think finding 1 explanation is possible or that seeking it is useful.

Having said this, there is a theory about the Big Bang that I think actually is in essence kind of similar to the theological explanation. I don't know the specifics, but it comes down to the idea that with the Big Bang not only matter came into existence, but also space and time. That would mean there is no 'before the Big Bang'.
I find this very vague, but I guess a way to think about time is: it is only observable by comparing matter. When there is no matter, time has no influence on anything, which is practically the same thing as not existing.
I know this doesn't explain everything by far and I am also not sure about how serious a theory this is.
My point is more that I think there are endless explanations to think of and the leap to God in your logic is quite big.
However, I have more or less accepted to never know or understand these things, but I can see that others might not be satisfied with this.
 
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Hawkins

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I am trying to gain a better of understanding of the thought process of Christians (or people with similar religions), as I might go somewhere in the near future where atheism isn't as accepted as where I live now. That way I might avoid offending people when conversing about the subject religion.
I can understand how someone would come to believe in a god, heaven and hell, I mean just general ideas that explain the world or make it easier to live on it.
What I have difficulties with, is how this is linked to the belief that the Bible (or another holy book) is a source of truth. As far as I know, every link from God to the Bible is written in the Bible. Therefore arguments supporting that the Bible contains God's word go in circles.
Certain godly experiences are also often a reason for religion, but I have never heard of these experiences including the Bible in particular.
What are your thoughts?

It all boils down to 1 question. If God is true, how would you like this truth to be conveyed?

We can examine into the truth of science first. Among the 100% humans who know for a fact that black holes exist, 99.99% of them don't have the evidence. It says that we, humans in majority, rely on something else other than evidence to approach a truth --- which is Faith!

Humans get to a truth (of any kind) by putting faith in a small group of humans we consider them keeping a more direct contact with the truth itself. We thus don't examine into the existence of black holes for such a truth to stand. Instead, we trust with faith in our scientists (the direct eyewitnesses) to get to such a truth.

Science is just one kind of truths which we can gain knowledge about them efficiently simply because science is all about phenomena which are repeatable unlimited number of times for us to examine repeatedly to get to a conclusion.

History is difficult to examine into because it doesn't repeat itself. Say, we (or even you) don't know what exactly you did today but a year ago (arbitrarily), or do you. We don't have the capacity or memory to go back to history to have a look. We thus will have to rely on the direct or indirect witnesses to write down what happened for us to believe with faith. We know what you did that day if and only if someone wrote about what you did that day. Today have better technology to assist our witnessing. Someone can tape/record what you did that day, as long as we have faith on the one taped it didn't deliberately lie to us.

There is yet another kind of truths which can only be reached or verified in the future, including hell/heaven/angels and etc. As long as they aren't in our this physical realm while there's God in control and doesn't allow us to go outside our realm to reach them.

This is analogue to black holes relative to humans in stone age. Humans in stone age have no way to reach the truth that black holes exist. It's a future thing to them. However if you are sent back to them, they thus can reach this truth by putting faith in you the witness of today's world.

If God exists, the best way for humans to get to this truth is that He shows Himself up to us, and He should unless He has a good reason to hide behind. I don't how the gods handle this issue, that is, what reasons they give for them to hide from humans. The Christianity God has a good reason to hide behind. For a reason, a covenant between God and man requires humans to be saved by faith. So if God shows up, all mankind dies.

If God won't show up, then the only way left for humans to know Him is by trusting the accounts of witnessing delivered from those direct eyewitnesses. The Bible is thus a compilation of testimonies from the claimed to be eyewitnesses. The nature of any accounts of human witnessing is that, you need faith to believe in order to approach any truth of this kind, while the risk is it can be a lie.

We trust the Bible because 1) there are witnesses (direct disciples of Jesus Christ) martyred themselves in order to spread the message. 2) Shall there be any truth the only way to reach this truth is by putting faith (as mentioned above). 3) The claim affects everyone's dead or alive it in the case that it's a truth.

If the claimed truth doesn't concern our own life, we can choose to ignore it. If we have a better alternative to confirm its true or false, we don't need faith to approach it. If the testimonies are not serious enough, we may consider to ignore it. However it is the opposite which is the situation we are facing!
 
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Albion

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Can you tell me the most important reason(s) for this? I understand this may be a complicated question.

I believe that I answered this way back in post #9, which said:

Almost all the other sacred, Bible-like books of other of the world's religions are purely thematic and poetic--comments from someone or other about God, morals, the afterlife, whatever. The Bible, even for unbelievers, is a remarkable record of a people though thousands of years of development. Its recordings, continuity, complexity etc. have been proven right against more critics than any other book ever written. In short, there is a reason to conclude that what it teaches is probably right. It may not be, and that's for any reader to decide, but believing it is not just something taken on blind faith.
 
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Silmarien

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When would you call something theologically accurate? I'm not sure what you mean by this.

For instance, creation myths in pagan religions began with the creation of the gods, whereas Judaism's major claim was that God was preexistent and Scripture makes no attempt to account for his existence as well. I'm also intrigued by the fairly cosmocentric approach to creation that we get in Genesis 1--you don't really see that elsewhere. The first bit I would consider more theologically accurate, since God's eternal and uncreated nature I think is pretty much a theological necessity, and the second is super interesting to me in the light of scientific knowledge.

Having said this, there is a theory about the Big Bang that I think actually is in essence kind of similar to the theological explanation. I don't know the specifics, but it comes down to the idea that with the Big Bang not only matter came into existence, but also space and time. That would mean there is no 'before the Big Bang'.

Yeah, this is how I understand the Big Bang as well. The only question is then: what exists beyond time and space? Can time and space simply come into existence of their own accord? We generally view God as not existing within the framework of a space-time continuum. It's less a matter of having a concept of God and using all these questions to support the possible existence of said deity, and more one of building your concept of God around the impossible questions. (Though special revelation plays a role for most religions, especially with Christianity.) I'd recommend looking into apophatic theology if you want to get a sense of what it means to define God by all the things that he is not.
 
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Bymay

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takes faith to believe that everything came from nothing (Big Bang theory).

2. It takes faith to believe that life came from non-living material (abiogenesis).

3. It takes faith to believe in molecules-to-man evolution.
I think I have not explained very well what I mean by knowing. A better word to use may be 'highly suspecting'.
In my opinion, an important difference between atheism and religion is: People from one religion agree on their conclusions (at least the fundamental ones, like "God exists") and these conclusions are fixed in the religion. The way they come to these conclusions however may differ, as 2PhiloVoid also explains in the quote below. Atheists on the other hand don't always agree on their conclusions, or at least they are not fixed, for when new evidence arises the conclusion will be altered. The do all come to conclusions the same way, or at least they try to, called the scientific method.
The only thing is, there isn't exactly 'one way' that Christians think about the psychological and theological structure(s) of their faith. It can often be different somewhat from one Christian to another, and from one denomination to another denomination. So, if you're really wanting to find this out...you have your work cut out for you, Bymay.
As Atheists have accepted that conclusions are not fixed, they don't 'believe' in anything, and are therefore actually agnostic about everything.
The reason, at least for me, not to call myself an Agnostic, is that since I am agnostic about everything, it seems pointless to call myself agnostic about one thing in particular, especially something that I don't find more credible than most other things.
Why Atheists still call certain things facts, was in my opinion well illustrated in the link I posted before: for the same reason we as a society can convict a person of murder without eyewitnesses or tapes; we don't know for sure that person did it, but we find the evidence so convincing that we act as if it were a fact anyway (and for easy communication we call it a fact as well).

By the way, I don't think you were too bold in your approach at all, I appreciate honesty ☺️.

It says that we, humans in majority, rely on something else other than evidence to approach a truth --- which is Faith!
Yes, of course we all sometimes have some type of faith in whatever, but I think this is very different from the faith of religion.
 
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Acts2:38

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Greetings again my friend, I am glad to see you back!

This is very hard for me to understand scientifically, as well as theologically. I think humans are not capable of understanding these things at all. Saying: the 'what came before' question is an endless paradox, so nothing came before God, he is causeless, seems too easy to me, if you know what I mean.

Well, for a Christian, the question is simple, due to our belief in God. The answer for me, is the "Chicken" came first. If the egg came first, how would the little chick learn from its mother? How would it obtain its food or know where to get it unless it had a parent to show it? How would it survive without an adult fostering its care for it?

Now think of it in human terms. A human baby is even more helpless than a chick is when you get right down to thinking about it. How is a human baby going to do all these things to help itself out unless an adult is around to help it.

If one wants to even consider monkeys or apes, it is the same question as their babies are pretty helpless at the start.

It would have to be, that an adult preceded a baby of any said specie.

However, if someone doesn't study into these things, they will not know. If I didn't study the bible, I would not know what I know about it. You too, once you study on any subject would eventually know about it. So you say you do not know now, but with study and time, you would. Based on what you know, you would make your own choice as you are free to do so.

I have not started out as an Atheist in my life, nor have ever leaned toward being so. With that in mind, I suppose I cannot know just how hard it is for you to believe in God. I have never been in those shoes. However, with the evidences all around me of perfect order, like our respiratory system, how our blood expels carbon dioxide and brings back in oxygen into our bodies in such perfect working order, it is harder for me to believe there is no God than believing in a God that exists.

Evolution requires long time periods to complete itself. We cannot live passed 5-7 minutes without our blood expelling the C02 and replacing it with the oxygen. Therefore if evolution requires hundreds, thousands, millions, billions of years, none of us would have survived the process it would take for evolution to create our bodily systems.

It is just the evidence like that around me, that has shown me that there must be a supernatural.

In my opinion, an important difference between atheism and religion is: People from one religion agree on their conclusions (at least the fundamental ones, like "God exists") and these conclusions are fixed in the religion. The way they come to these conclusions however may differ, as 2PhiloVoid also explains in the quote below. Atheists on the other hand don't always agree on their conclusions, or at least they are not fixed, for when new evidence arises the conclusion will be altered. The do all come to conclusions the same way, or at least they try to, called the scientific method.

Yes, I do see what you are saying. It is because we have no reason to change our conclusion. There will be no more new evidence as we are told in scripture. No more books to the bible, it is finished. Atheists have changed their position time and time again since I been alive and even further.

Back in my younger days it use to be just millions of years for the earths age, now they tout billions. However, the laws of science have not changed. They still use the scientific method, law of causality, law of biogenesis, laws of thermodynamics. These have been the same. Christians and Atheists use these same laws. With these laws I am convinced in the timeline that was set from Adam and Eve till us today of the earths age.

From the example of those laws I have given you. This is one reason for me to believe in the existence of God.
 
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FireDragon76

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Not all religions have "fixed conclusions". Many Quakers and Unitarians do not, for instance, have any dogma in their religion. Even among Christians, what is and is not of dogmatic importance, will vary. What is far more important to consider in the modern study of religion is the practices of the community and their significance to the members.
 
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Bymay

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Now think of it in human terms. A human baby is even more helpless than a chick is when you get right down to thinking about it. How is a human baby going to do all these things to help itself out unless an adult is around to help it.

If one wants to even consider monkeys or apes, it is the same question as their babies are pretty helpless at the start.

It would have to be, that an adult preceded a baby of any said specie.

Evolution requires long time periods to complete itself. We cannot live passed 5-7 minutes without our blood expelling the C02 and replacing it with the oxygen. Therefore if evolution requires hundreds, thousands, millions, billions of years, none of us would have survived the process it would take for evolution to create our bodily systems.
If you think these are arguments against evolution of obstacles for it, you do not understand evolution the way scientists do. If you are interested, I will explain some things about this to you (how I understand it), but I think I have done too much writing about atheism, while I didn't start this thread for that.

I have not started out as an Atheist in my life, nor have ever leaned toward being so. With that in mind, I suppose I cannot know just how hard it is for you to believe in God. I have never been in those shoes. However, with the evidences all around me of perfect order, like our respiratory system, how our blood expels carbon dioxide and brings back in oxygen into our bodies in such perfect working order, it is harder for me to believe there is no God than believing in a God that exists.
I actually didn't start out an atheist either. My father is Catholic (born, now actually atheist) and my mother Protestant (I'm not sure what her believes are, she says she believes in God, but she also thinks evolution and all other scientific explanations are true). I was baptized and went to a Protestant primary school, where we read from the bible, sang psalms and prayed every day. I believed in God until I was about 10, because it was all I knew and as a child you don't consider everyone around you telling you untrue story's. Now as an "adult" however, I find it very hard to believe in God. Many people I know don't believe in God, but there are also many that do. Unfortunately, religion is not a popular subject around here and whenever someone does talk about it, he doesn't go very deep ("I just do"). The only one who likes to talk about philosophy with me is my dad, but as I said earlier he is an atheist, and just agreeing on (most things) is not that interesting to me. That is why I thought I'd ask others.

I have some more questions in fact, but no time right now
 
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Acts2:38

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If you think these are arguments against evolution of obstacles for it, you do not understand evolution the way scientists do. If you are interested, I will explain some things about this to you (how I understand it), but I think I have done too much writing about atheism, while I didn't start this thread for that.


I actually didn't start out an atheist either. My father is Catholic (born, now actually atheist) and my mother Protestant (I'm not sure what her believes are, she says she believes in God, but she also thinks evolution and all other scientific explanations are true). I was baptized and went to a Protestant primary school, where we read from the bible, sang psalms and prayed every day. I believed in God until I was about 10, because it was all I knew and as a child you don't consider everyone around you telling you untrue story's. Now as an "adult" however, I find it very hard to believe in God. Many people I know don't believe in God, but there are also many that do. Unfortunately, religion is not a popular subject around here and whenever someone does talk about it, he doesn't go very deep ("I just do"). The only one who likes to talk about philosophy with me is my dad, but as I said earlier he is an atheist, and just agreeing on (most things) is not that interesting to me. That is why I thought I'd ask others.

I have some more questions in fact, but no time right now

Greetings once again. It is nice to see you back again.

I was thinking lately, that maybe I digressed from your original post. I apologize for that. In a way though, maybe you did get to see what a Christian thinks and how they would react. So maybe this did stay on topic in that sense.

So in conclusion, if I were in your shoes, I would not fear or be nervous moving into a community where it is found "more so" religious than not. You seem very capable in handling yourself in a very pleasant conversation my dear friend.

To really truly see where a Christian bases their information and understanding, it would behoove you to read the bible. I don't say this to convert you in a last ditch effort, but for example: I have studied a little bit on A.G.N. Flew and what he as a proclaimed Atheist thinks and believes. It doesn't mean I will become an Atheist. I just study to figure out how they think and where their mind is at to know more about how to speak with them.

It has been my pleasure to speak with you and I hope that where ever you are moving to, that it all works out and you prosper.

Again, my apologies for the digression.
 
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