Sure!Dylan_Chica said:ok in that case i apologize for my mistake. i will pm you now again dannager if that's ok
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why are christians "challenging" the young earth creationism?
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Dylan_Chica said:until today when i registred i didn't use that term but i know i believe that god created the earth in six days, and what i feel is other christians sometimes distort (not in a bad way, more like interpreting too far) what the bible says in order to make it fit their own views, their own beliefs and i respect that but isn't christianity all about surrendering your life and heart to the hands of jesus and let your faith in him which means also the bible, guide your way in life? i just don't understand this "challenging" after reading the forums today
But but but you're a catholic, I thought the position of the catholic church was to not rule out the possibility of evolution completely?
Come to think of it, it's we who should be challenging you over your beleif in creationism and a young earth, it's been known for oh gosh ages that the earth is not 6000 years old, but far older, though the date of 4.6 billion years is a fairly recent discovery. Regarding evolution, hasn't it only been in the past few decades that creationism has become increasingly popular amongst a few christian denominations. So when all the evidence and it's uncle points to evolution and an old earth, why do you believe it was created in 6 days, 6000 years ago?
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Harlan Norris
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I take it on faith that the Bible is true.I also know that I don't have perfect understanding.So, I don't worry about what some think regarding creation.They aren't going to change my mind.Frankly, there's no point argueing.No one knows.No one has proof.The other night my wife was somewhat alarmed that I don't believe in evolution.I guess she see's that as just another sign that I've lost my grip.That in the face of so much proof,ect.However there is no proof to the contrary.So, her view is a matter of faith,just as mine is.She has faith in science. I have faith in God.When this life is finished we'll know the truth.Not a minunite sooner.Dylan_Chica said:until today when i registred i didn't use that term but i know i believe that god created the earth in six days, and what i feel is other christians sometimes distort (not in a bad way, more like interpreting too far) what the bible says in order to make it fit their own views, their own beliefs and i respect that but isn't christianity all about surrendering your life and heart to the hands of jesus and let your faith in him which means also the bible, guide your way in life? i just don't understand this "challenging" after reading the forums today
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chaoschristian
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An interesting parallel: until I came to CF, I didn't know there was such a thing as theistic evolution, and was actually despondent over trying to reconcile my acceptance of evolutionary theory with my Christian faith. But now because of the community of CF and its origins forums I've been able to begin to articulate my position much more clearly and concisely. CF is neat that way.Dylan_Chica said:
Let me ask you some questions:
Is Creation a revelation of God?
Is Creation necessarily deceitful, and or corrupted?
Can science and reason be viewed as blessings from God?
This isn't some rhetorical trap. These question are posed in an honest attempt to seek out understanding.
Just come back froma four day conference in Cincinnati and one speaker stated, "Love is still spelled R-E-S-P-E-C-T"
And here you have touched upon another important difference in how different POV's within the Christian faith are going to emphasize different facets of the faith. While scripture is important, I reserve my faith for God alone. Does that mean that I view scripture as fallible or uninspired? No. It does mean that while I accept scripture as one of the revelations of God, I recognize that unless we seriously study the literary, historical and cultural contexts of the original author and intended audience that we can be seriously led astray in our interpretation of scripture? Yes.
While coming to faith is easy and free of obstacles (spiritually speaking) discipleship is difficult and carries alot of responsibility. Does that mean that I think you need a PhD in theology to be a good Christian? No. It does mean that I reject the notion that scripture (and really any revelation of God) is simple and plain and easy to understand upon first glance.
And I encourage to you to continue seeking out that understanding as evidenced by your posts and reports from others. Keep it up.i just don't understand this "challenging" after reading the forums today
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chaoschristian
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Harlan Norris said:
One question, if I may: do you believe that we live within a God inspired Creation that is unknowable? If so, then what does that say about the character of God?
OK, small fib there. Two questions if I may.
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I know I shouldn't be putting my nose where it doesn't belong, but I'm like that.
What I personally think is that the ancient people didn't know how long a billion, or even a million years were. I think the "days" are symbolic, possibly meaning six days compared to how long God has existed.
Who knows, for sure?
IO
What I personally think is that the ancient people didn't know how long a billion, or even a million years were. I think the "days" are symbolic, possibly meaning six days compared to how long God has existed.
Who knows, for sure?
IO
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Yeah, I'm fairly certain they didn't have words to describe numbers that large. Is there someone who can confirm that?InnocentOdion said:
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I know they didn't have numbers, instead they used letters - like the Romans did (hence Roman Numerals), but using the whole alphabet for numbers, I'm sure you could end up making some words from them.Dannager said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_numerals
Look look, it says here about not having numbers - in fact, according to form, most ancient languages didn't have numbers (nor a number "zero").
IO
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Late_Cretaceous
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Hey that's not so bad. At another forum, theistic evolutionists in general (and myself in particular )were described as being "as much of Christians as Osama Bin Laden is". In either case I fail to see the point of Christians villying other Christians for not beng Christian enough.
Does this sound familiar; "[SIZE=-1] all fall short of the glory of God. [/SIZE]" It is a folly to think of oneself as being more righteous.
Does this sound familiar; "[SIZE=-1] all fall short of the glory of God. [/SIZE]" It is a folly to think of oneself as being more righteous.
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Good point.
Unfortunatley it's common for people to use that 'Holier-than-thou' attitude amongst one another.
People need to learn that they're all equally hopeless without God.
Unfortunatley it's common for people to use that 'Holier-than-thou' attitude amongst one another.
People need to learn that they're all equally hopeless without God.
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Sorry for the confusion, and it certainly wasn't directed at you. I actually had people at my old church say things like that to me, and it rubs me the wrong way when people make the same accusations here.Dylan_Chica said:
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i have a question, before coming here i didn't know much about the debates going on within the christian communities about this i just know quite a few christians in london (catholics too) laugh at the idea that we stem from monkeys, and i feel that this forum has alot of people who seem to like to make fun of christians who believe that the earth is 6000 years old and who believe in the six days creation, why are you attacking and challenging the word of god? i am open to evolution myself but not convinced and i do respect people's opinions, but i'm not used to seeing christians challenging god's word like this and it's upsetting me.
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chaoschristian said:
god's word is the bible and the bible makes no mistake about anything, that's what i know
and by challenging it, i think you know what i am talking about, they are questioning it and putting their own ideas ahead of it by trying to shape the word of god around their own ideas
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chaoschristian said:
i don't understand what you mean by these questions but if you mean do i think that the creation around me shows the magnitude of god, absolutely, he is all around us.
and i think reason and science is part of the free will god has given us, it's a gift to be able to explore.
and what do you mean by creation being corrupted and deceitful? if you would explain your questions more thoroughly, maybe i would be able to answer them better.
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LewisWildermuth
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Dylan_Chica said:
Challenging creationism is not challenging the Bible or God, it is challenging a man and a mans interpretation of the Bible.
I personally tend not to argue theology with those that feel the Bible hints at a young Earth but do not try to justify this belief with false statements about science. Though I feel that their theology is mistaken, as long as they are not giving false testimony in the name of God, then the issue is a minor one. It is when people and/or groups start lying about what science says and what tests have shown, that I tend to step in. I feel that using these lies to spread the gospel is corroding the non-Christians trust of the church and is forcing the educated from the pews, both weakening the church.
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Late_Cretaceous
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Taking a non-literal interpretation of Genesis is not challenging nor disbelieving in it at all. It is simply regarding it as being a story with more to it then it's face value.
Look at it this way. Jesus told parables that conveyed messages and in that sense told deeper truths - even if the events never actually transpired. Take the parable of the Good Samaritan. Jesus chose the characters He did for a reason, they were symbolic. In fact, the parable of the Good Samaritan has MORE meaning when regarded as non literal then literal - because symbolism has multiple layers of meaning.
So to say that Genesis is not literal is not the same as saying it's not true. In fact quite the opposite.
Look at it this way. Jesus told parables that conveyed messages and in that sense told deeper truths - even if the events never actually transpired. Take the parable of the Good Samaritan. Jesus chose the characters He did for a reason, they were symbolic. In fact, the parable of the Good Samaritan has MORE meaning when regarded as non literal then literal - because symbolism has multiple layers of meaning.
So to say that Genesis is not literal is not the same as saying it's not true. In fact quite the opposite.
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philN
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The idea that the bible is the word of God is an unbiblical concept. When John writes, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God", he is not talking about a book, he is talking about Jesus.
Jesus is the Word of God. The bible is a testament to the Word of God, not the Word itself.
As for the bible containing mistakes, that depends how you define a mistake. For example, in Matthew, the author begins the book with an account of the geneology of Jesus from his father's side. The problem is, because Jesus was born of a virgin, none of the people mentioned in that geneology are actually blood relatives of him. However, Matthew did not make a mistake when he wrote this, he was writing to convey a message of Christ as King of the Jews and in order to do that he had to make a connection between Jesus and Abraham.
The bible has many other places where it is somewhat ambiguous and even contradictory. That is not because it has mistakes, it is because it was written in the context of a Jewish culture. In western culture, we read a story and if there is a contradiction in it, one part must be right and the other must be wrong. We read things like a newspaper. The Jews did not read scripture this way. They used block logic, which allowed for them to make points and convey themes and stories without worrying about the insignificant details.
When you try to press a western interpretation on something that was meant to be read in the context of Judaism, and when you try and draw out elaborate applications today for things that were intended for people in another time and another place, you are going to run into some issues.
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jeffweeder
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Why then did jesus think it was the word of god?
Why then is the six day creation alluded to, in the ten commandments?
YOU are very badly mistaken philn..
Why then is the six day creation alluded to, in the ten commandments?
YOU are very badly mistaken philn..
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Because that's the story that was presented in Genesis. What, you expect them to allude to something that wasn't said? Why would he feel the need to correct Genesis when no one was intending it to be read as literal in the first place?jeffweeder said:
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