Why are Archangels on the lowest rank?

[Varangian Christian]

Hello again!

The ranking of the Archangels in the lowest of the three hierarchies doesn't make sense to me. I read this same thing in Aquinas' Summa and i know it comes from Saint Dionysius whose works i plan to read soon, but i am busy at the moment and thought i could get an abbreviated answer here.

I always assumed Archangels were the highest ranked. Michael is the leader of the heavenly hosts and defeater of Lucifer, Gabriel's name means God's strength and he is present throughout the Bible, and the book of Enoch (which i personally believe is canonical) says the following:

"And these are the names of the holy angels who watch. Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and over Tartarus. Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men. Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries. Michael, one of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind and over chaos. Saraqâêl, one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit. Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim. Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise." - Chapter XX:1-8

Also in Tobit Raphael says:

” I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels, which present the prayers of the saints, and which go in and out before the glory of the Holy One.” - Tobit, 12:15

I assume the above two passages also coincide with these verses from Revelation:

"And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength... The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches..." - Revelation 1:16, 20

So how do Archangels get placed on the bottom tier? Am I simply not understanding what each rank means?

 

[mmksparbud]

What is a Varangian Christian??

 

[Mark Quayle]

Hello again!

The ranking of the Archangels in the lowest of the three hierarchies doesn't make sense to me. I read this same thing in Aquinas' Summa and i know it comes from Saint Dionysius whose works i plan to read soon, but i am busy at the moment and thought i could get an abbreviated answer here.

I always assumed Archangels were the highest ranked. Michael is the leader of the heavenly hosts and defeater of Lucifer, Gabriel's name means God's strength and he is present throughout the Bible, and the book of Enoch (which i personally believe is canonical) says the following:

"And these are the names of the holy angels who watch. Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and over Tartarus. Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men. Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries. Michael, one of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind and over chaos. Saraqâêl, one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit. Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim. Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise." - Chapter XX:1-8

Also in Tobit Raphael says:

” I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels, which present the prayers of the saints, and which go in and out before the glory of the Holy One.” - Tobit, 12:15

I assume the above two passages also coincide with these verses from Revelation:

"And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength... The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches..." - Revelation 1:16, 20

So how do Archangels get placed on the bottom tier? Am I simply not understanding what each rank means?

Is that what the Bible says, or man? Or that is not your question --are you asking why these supposed human authorities on the matter say what they say? Well, they have no authority in the matter. They make stuff up.

 

[Varangian Christian]

What is a Varangian Christian??

The Varangian guard were the royal guard of Byzantine emperors since Basil II and were made up of mostly Norsemen. I am of Norse heritage and wish to convert to Orthodoxy, hence my username and avatar.

Is that what the Bible says, or man? Or that is not your question --are you asking why these supposed human authorities on the matter say what they say? Well, they have no authority in the matter. They make stuff up.

Thank you but I want to understand the Orthodox teaching on this matter.

 

[ArmyMatt]

archangels are the second lowest rank. the lowest rank are the angels.

 

[prodromos]

archangels are the second lowest rank. the lowest rank are the angels.

That's what I understood also.

On the Nine Ranks of Angels

 

[~Anastasia~]

That's what I understood also.

On the Nine Ranks of Angels

Just read that - thanks for sharing. I knew a little but never put any study into it.

My reaction was this:

Interesting - I've heard of the nine orders of angels (as represented in Christ's halo). And I've heard the titles of the ranks. But no idea of the purpose of most of them or any real hierarchy. It's very humbling, to consider how the angels are ordered, and how highly I considered archangels (rightly so, I still think) ... yet so much is so far above them, and we as humans are so in need of help from even the lowest angels. What I think of as the world is so small really, isn't it? And mankind so small. Pretty amazing, to me at least. I'm glad this was shared with me.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Just read that - thanks for sharing. I knew a little but never put any study into it.

My reaction was this:

Interesting - I've heard of the nine orders of angels (as represented in Christ's halo). And I've heard the titles of the ranks. But no idea of the purpose of most of them or any real hierarchy. It's very humbling, to consider how the angels are ordered, and how highly I considered archangels (rightly so, I still think) ... yet so much is so far above them, and we as humans are so in need of help from even the lowest angels. What I think of as the world is so small really, isn't it? And mankind so small. Pretty amazing, to me at least. I'm glad this was shared with me.

not only that, but angels grow in God by assisting man to grow past every angelic order.

everyone is called to be more honorable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim.

 

[~Anastasia~]

not only that, but angels grow in God by assisting man to grow past every angelic order.

everyone is called to be more honorable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim.

That's the other thing I was thinking of - that the Theotokos is more honorable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim.

What that means for us - we are all called to reach such a point? And that the angels grow by helping us? I wasn't sure of those things. This is the kind of thing I could sit and think on for a long time and it still seems incomprehensible.

So ... if the angels can grow - does that mean the seraphim will reach even greater heights in God? I suppose since our theosis is forever ongoing (because God can never be reached fully) ... it makes sense.

It's too high to think of really though. Wow.

 

[ArmyMatt]

That's the other thing I was thinking of - that the Theotokos is more honorable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim.

What that means for us - we are all called to reach such a point? And that the angels grow by helping us? I wasn't sure of those things. This is the kind of thing I could sit and think on for a long time and it still seems incomprehensible.

So ... if the angels can grow - does that mean the seraphim will reach even greater heights in God? I suppose since our theosis is forever ongoing (because God can never be reached fully) ... it makes sense.

It's too high to think of really though. Wow.

yes, all creation is to grow in God. even the earth undergrows growth in God.

 

[Varangian Christian]

archangels are the second lowest rank. the lowest rank are the angels.

Yes, but that is what confuses me. Michael is the leader of all Angels. In Enoch the seven Archangels are listed as being set over practically everything and Gabriel is over the Cherubim. The seven Archangels are also, if i am correct, the seven spirits of God mentioned in Revelation and Tobit.

Are the ranks less a status of "power" and more of a status of role? For example are Archangels placed in the lowest of the three hierarchies because they have more contact with earth/humanity, while still ruling over all other angels, and the Seraphim are the highest tier because they stay above God's throne?

Thank you for your posts explaining how Angels grow alongside us into eternity. That is a very awe inspiring thing to think about.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yes, but that is what confuses me. Michael is the leader of all Angels. In Enoch the seven Archangels are listed as being set over practically everything and Gabriel is over the Cherubim. The seven Archangels are also, if i am correct, the seven spirits of God mentioned in Revelation and Tobit.

Are the ranks less a status of "power" and more of a status of role? For example are Archangels placed in the lowest of the three hierarchies because they have more contact with earth/humanity, while still ruling over all other angels, and the Seraphim are the highest tier because they stay above God's throne?

Thank you for your posts explaining how Angels grow alongside us into eternity. That is a very awe inspiring thing to think about.

I think the rank is in terms of function and not of power.

 

[Kaon]

.

 

[Anhelyna]

Ummm ?

 

[Radagast]

and the book of Enoch (which i personally believe is canonical)

I don't think that's the Orthodox position.

 

[Varangian Christian]

I think the rank is in terms of function and not of power.

That is good to hear! Thank you ever so much for your help. It is humbling to realize that God and the mightiest of His Angels care for us as family.

I don't think that's the Orthodox position.

It is one of my theologoumena.

 

[prodromos]

The seven Archangels are also, if i am correct, the seven spirits of God mentioned in Revelation and Tobit.

No, that is not correct. The number seven symbolises fullness and completion and in this case, as I understand, simply refers to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Anthony70]

No, that is not correct. The number seven symbolises fullness and completion and in this case, as I understand, simply refers to the Holy Spirit.

Revelation 8:2
And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

It seems like the seven spirits are the seven Archangels.