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Featured Why Abortion Should Be Allowed in the Early Stages

Discussion in 'Debates on Abortion' started by JerseyChristianSuperstar, May 25, 2019.

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  1. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Then we can extend abortion in some cases to 26-30 years of age.

    Seems to be the going rate for “kids” to survive on their own in the millennial generation.
     
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  2. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    Indeed, I was going to point this out earlier. This phrase is never used in any other way.
     
  3. JerseyChristianSuperstar

    JerseyChristianSuperstar Member

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    What are the refutations to the bodily autonomy argument I raised with how we can't force a woman to donate her organ to save a victim of a car crash she was involved in, even if she intentionally caused the crash, such as the example with the jealous girlfriend ramming her cheating boyfriend?

    There is no other situation on Earth but abortion where people argue that humans should be forced to relinquish their bodily autonomy and act as incubators for the state. In my mind, it is frankly misogynistic. Women are autonomous beings, with God-given free will, and have lives of their own, and should make their own decisions.

    I didn't misrepresent Aquinas or Augustine, I accurately put what they believed about how early abortion isn't murder as the fetus has not been ensouled by God yet. For Aquinas, it was the 40th day for male fetuses and the 80th day for female fetuses, and not only was abortion sinful, but after that time period it constituted murder. For Augustine, it was after the three-month mark when abortion became murder.
     
  4. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

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    Abortion is never permissible. A unique human being is created at the moment of conception, and neither you nor anyone else can ever justify the shedding of this innocent blood to anyone, especially not the Just Judge.
     
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  5. JerseyChristianSuperstar

    JerseyChristianSuperstar Member

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    Until the fetus can survive on its own, it is nothing more than an organ of the woman. Would you really say that a 3 week old embryo is its own body? No, it is an extension of hers?

    Anyway, it's still a sin because God makes us in the womb and we should not flaunt our noses at Him.
     
  6. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    Only the natural man would attempt to interpret Luke 1 as you have.

    “For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb.”

    Furthermore,

    41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit. 44 For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.

    Luke is clear the John leaped for HIS joy inside the womb. It wasn’t Elizabeth’s joy that caused John to stir in her womb

    The bottom line is that there are no instances in Scripture where there is ever a living human being that doesn’t have a soul, who isn’t created in the image of God, and who doesn’t have inherent moral worth and value.
     
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  7. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    If the mother must choose between her own life and the baby's life, abortion certainly is permissible. Can you imagine God telling her to die before the fetus is ready to live outside her body?
     
  8. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    It’s amazing how you still parrot this nonsense even after dozens of dozens of credible scientific references have been provided for you to help educate you in what modern science and biology teaches. Do you just not want to learn?
     
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  9. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    An embryo is a separate human being with its own DNA. The "extension of hers" part is the placenta that attaches the baby to her endometrium.
     
  10. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

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    Firstly- no, it's not. Can you honestly imagine God telling her, Go ahead and shed this innocent blood. Do not take up your cross and follow me.

    Second- abortion is never medically necessary.

    Third- such cases represent no sizable percentage of abortion cases. This stance of yours cannot be equally applied across the spectrum.
     
  11. SteveIndy

    SteveIndy IndyWatchman.com Supporter

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    There are all kinds of arguments to justify murder but it is still murder. My advise to you is to be very careful that you are judging correctly because the judgment that you use will be used against you. You are making a terrible error and it is better error on the side of life, the baby's life and your life.
     
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  12. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    Oh yes, sometimes it is medcally necessasry. Science and medicine support this. Only pro-lifers say there is no medical reason for it. So what if there are very few medically necessary abortions? That doesn't give anyone the right to deny it ever happens.
     
  13. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

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    Prove it. The ball is in your court. You are also responsible for explaining why "hard cases" should get to make the law.

    But thanks for at least recognizing us as who we are: we are pro-life, just as God is.

    P.S. Can't I just say that "only pro-choices say there is a medical reason for it"?
     
  14. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    What are you calling hard cases? I never used that phrase.

    Let me get back to you on this.
     
  15. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In reality most of us could not survive by ourselves at any age. We are actually very communal.

    Which means that few if any of us are viable. So the whole 'viability argument' to justify abortion actually disappears.
     
  16. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    Viability is being able to use mandatory body functions (breathe, digest food, eliminate waste) after birth. It has nothing to do with needing other people to bottle-feed a baby and change his/her diapers when we are talking about abortion.
     
  17. (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

    (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Biblically, the only "rights" anyone has, to include women, are to love, worship, and obey God. If there are any "God given human rights" other than those, we then would be in a position to demand them from God and tell Him He is wrong when we do not have them. However, I do agree with you that someone can still be a Christian and support abortion. But that doesn't mean that abortion is a position that a Christian ought to take. Adultery is something that is legal and just as sinful as any other sin, but condoning and supporting sin at any level is a position that no Christian ought to take. Let they be walking in the flesh and not the spirit. Galatians 5
     
  18. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How many total pages of Augustine have you read? How many total pages of Thomas? Just wondering.
     
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  19. (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

    (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because biblically there is no "God given right" to bodily autonomy.
     
  20. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Also read the article in the link before it because the false analogy organ donation is a variant of Thompson's Violinist analogy. Both are refuted in logic courses.

    Sample Q&A: The Kidney Donation Argument | Pro-Life Theory and Discussion Tactics

    As far Augustine and Aquinas there are multiple posts with links. I trust you are reading them.

    I received my master's in divinity from a Catholic Seminary with a focus in moral theology. I was taught by scholastic theology specialists. You are cherry picking the logic of the argument Aquinas makes. Because if he knew what we know now his argument aligns with pro-life views on it. It's a matter of taking his argument and supplying what became known.

    You have to take the arguments of Augustine and Aquinas and apply them in light of the information they were missing.
     
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