WHO's WHO IN EZEKIEL 38???

[rollinTHUNDER]

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[rollinTHUNDER]

If

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

There is something else that is bound to come up later, so while I'm not busy at the moment, I might as well tackle it now. In Ez. 38:13 - Sheba, Dedan, the merchants of Tarshish, and all the young lions are questioning this attack on Israel.

On my map, Sheba is now two nations, they are Yemen and the United Arab Emirates. Dedan is now Saudi Arabia. Tarshish is a thorn in the side of every student of Prophecy. But like I said in another thread, I believe that I have narrowed it down to two possibilities. My first choice would be Spain. On my map, Tarshish is identified as southern Spain. This makes good sense because when you look at the (young lions or cubs in some bibles), Christopher Colombus discovered the Americas- North, south, and central. These nations are the worlds newest nations. My second choice is Great Britain. A lot of early settlers came from Britain. I also believe that the Anti-Christ will arise out of which ever nation that it happens to be. And in the same order as before, is also my choice of where I believe the AC will come from (Spain or Britain). Now you have it. This is my story, and I'm stickin to it.

 

[Yauming]

Interesting. I like the geography lesson bit...

What about Turkey? Maybe that's Maggog... a little bit small in the epic scale of things though.

Russia has always (well since I remember preachers talking about it in the 1970s) been pointed to be Maggog. It really fitted the bill back then in the Cold War days, esp when it was supplying army loads of weapons to the Arabs in their war against Israel.

But now their army is in such a big dump with many unpaid soldiers and vehicles- tanks etc.. in bad need of repair. Heh, if they attack now no wonder they will get crushed by the Israelis.

I must say that with the recent UN led coalition attacks on Iraq and Afganistan, it seems quite straightforward that something similar will happen to Israel one day. But for that to happen, the rapture has to take place first. No Christians = Muslims in charge of the UN. Only the Muslims at the moment hate Israel enough to want to utterly destroy it.

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Go ahead YAUMING,
Explain to me what I REALLY MEAN HERE. I really need someone to come behind me, and interpret what I'm saying, so everyone else can have the same understanding you have. Please don't quote me. It's all there in black and white. Maybe we should all pray to be as wise and crafty as you are.

 

[Pavel]

Hello, rollinTHUNDER and everyone,
I'm no big professional in prophesy, but in my opinion the picture of future events you give, is the most accurate. Russia, with Putin at the head, is a more serious danger to the civilized world than anyone would think. He's very popular at home and abroad, but that makes me even more suspicious, for the man's actions clearly contradict his words. Anyway, most Bible believers here in Belarus and Russia (at least from evangelical churches) share the same thinking as you, people, do. I know that no matter what the future has in store for us and who the AC turns out to be we will still be brothers in Christ and no war will ever separate us.

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hello Pavel,
I think it is great to here a Russian believers side in all these things. You said in another thread, that you have been a believer for 4 years now. If the cold war had not ended, do you think that you would still be a christian today?? I know that when it did finally end, God started opening doors for the gospel to be preached over there. What was it like before that, for the christian I mean?? And what did you think of christians before the cold war ended?? I would love to hear your input on these matters.

 

[Pavel]

Hi, rollinTHUNDER!
After the Iron Curtain fell we received plenty of freedom. I'd say even too much for those, who had no freedom before. In 1991, as you know, the USSR collapsed and Belarus became an independent state. We made quite a progress by 1994, when the present-day autoritarian ruler Alexander Lukashenko won the ballot. That's where the freedom ended. It appears that we weren't able to appreciate and save our freedom.
To be a Bible believer here is not a life-or-death issue. Evangelical churches aren't favored by state, but no arrests or persecution have taken place so far. Although the political situation is saddening, there's a growing number of people, especially young, who are turning towards God. Seems like most people are frustrated by communist myth and market reforms flop, seeking hope in the Lord. In neighboring Russia, which is almost one state with Belarus now, people are more open and reachouts there seem more successful. However, tyranny can well be round the corner there too, which I'm sure will be the case soon.
See you later,
P.S. You may read news from Russia at www.gazeta.ru (click English), from Belarus - www.charter97.org (where I work at)

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Thanks Pavel,
Keep your eyes and ears open, and one eye open, even when you sleep. It doesn't sound very promising over there. Maybe you are in a small window of opportunity- be very alert brother. I thank God that I live in America, we Americans take too much for granted though. We may have to pray for your safety one day soon. All religions are safe in the U.S., unfortunately even satan worshippers. I can't see us losing this freedom until after the rapture. Then christians will be hated and hunted everywhere in the world.

 

[Pavel]

Hi, rollinTHUNDER, thanks for the words of encouragement,
We are fine here at the moment, but you're right, things change so quickly.
I'm leaving for the weekend (I have no PC at home) and on Monday our church will travel for a Christian conference in Moscow (700km away). So, see you on-line in one week!
Bye!

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

I would doubt if all those countries mentioned will be involved in the attack against Israel, but you never know. Afghanistan would not be of much help it would appear. Here is the ones that we know will be involved, and then the ones that will probably be involved.

We know that Russia, Turkey, Iran, Lybia, and Sudan will be involved. And we could now add to that list the probable, Iraq if they survive, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Ethiopia, Ukraine or Romania or both. Hmmmmmm ! All these against tiny little Israel?? And Israel will be victorious, WOW! Well- it must be true then, God is awesome! ! ! ! ! ! ! That is an understatement if I ever heard one.

 

[sbbqb7n16]

Somehow I believe that the whole world will be involved in this somehow. I don't think they are all mentioned, but something has to happen to them all and each country will play it's own part.

How does this tie in to Ezekiel 26. Have you read that recently in light of what's been goin on in America? KJV makes verse 9 a little more interesting. Can find this at omegaletter.com. Put in "tower" in search and scroll down to Ezekiel

Does verse 9 seem a little odd to you??

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hello sbbqb7n16,
I saw your new thread, and I answered this question there.

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

>>>>>>>

 

[celtic_crusader]

Hey THUNDER,
That was an excellent rundown on biblical geology. I will spend a bit more time looking into it.

I think you have had a revelation on who Gog is too. I think your right there. Gog is the angel of Magog. Thanks man , that has to be what Gog is.

Although Gog was mentioned in the Israelite genealogies along with Magog.

It mentions Magog`s birthright in genesis as well as 1 chronicles were also mentions the sons of Joel and one of them was Gog.

1 Chronicles 1:4-6 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

1 Chronicles 5:3-5 The sons of Joel; Shemaiah his son, Gog his son, Shimei his son.



Look at this scripture, it says that Gog is the prince but I would have thought that Magog was the prince since he was the eldest of Tubal, and Meshech but it says that Gog is the prince even though Gog wasn`t born until hundreds of years later.
.

Either way, I wonder wether these genealogies had anything to do with what Ezekiel meant, was he using them as figurative or is this Ezekiel using there place of settlement as a compose as you seem to have said and I also believe?????

One thing that I notice though, Gog is a Hebrew. Gog came through ruebans line a rejected line. Joseph took his birthright. Magog was generations earlier with the son of noah as his father, Japheth

Ezekiel 39:1-2 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:


I wonder if this scripture sheds light on anything concerning were Gog would have been living.

1 Chronicles 5
6
Beerah his son, whom Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria carried away captive: he was prince of the Reubenites.
7
And his brethren by their families, when the genealogy of their generations was reckoned, were the chief, Jeiel, and Zechariah,
8
And Bela the son of Azaz, the son of Shema, the son of Joel, who dwelt in Aroer, even unto Nebo and Baalmeon:
9
And eastward he inhabited unto the entering in of the wilderness from the river Euphrates: because their cattle were multiplied in the land of Gilead.

Do you know were this place is today THUNDER ???

“who dwelt in Aroer, even unto Nebo and Baalmeon And eastward he inhabited unto the entering in of the wilderness from the river Euphrates:: “



There are a couple of thing that I would like to ask you , about this Armageddon???

I have my own understanding on allot of biblical things but I am not familiar with vocabulary that is foreign in the bible. Words like rapture and trinity and the over using of many other words.

My point is, I understand what I believe but I am not always shore how others see things so I am going to ask you some questions about this war even though I already have my own ideas but I would like to understand how it is seen by the Christian churches.

I am mainly referring to the word rapture and the meaning of Armageddon in this instance.

The rapture I will address latter but I wonder what your understanding of Armageddon is.

So hears my Q`s;

These scriptures that I have pasted are just a few to show my point and then I will see were you are coming from.

I put this to you, not because I think your wrong but because I am not shore I am right.

So, revelations 16 and 17 (and other bible scriptures) seem to be using some similar terms as Ezekiel 38 and 39 and revelations 20 and 21.

But

They appear to be very different events.

Why??? Because rev 16 and 17 are talking about the 10 tribes and the vatican and the anti Christ D as I have said I believe before) and this is a time coming up soon were there will be a catching away of jesus people just before he returns with 10 thousand saints (I wonder if they were those caught up before he returns) to claim the earth for 1000 yrs of peace.

But

It appears that this war of Gog and Magog are after that thousand years of peace and is the last battle before the great judgment.

This is simply my own understanding of what the bible says, so I was hoping you might be able to shed some light on weather this thousand years of peace will come before the great war of Gog and Magog before the great judgment.???

More simply put;

Isn’t there 1000 yrs of peace first before this war in Ezekiel 38????

Is the war in revelations 20 after the 1000 yrs with Gog and Magog the same war in Ezekiel????

Revelation 16
12
And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16
And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.


16
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17
And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18
That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


Revelation 20
1
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


7
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.



So , looking at rev 20 v 7-8
Can you see what I mean hear???? Is the Gog war the one coming up before jesus returns or after 1000 yrs peace when Satan is loosed to muster Gog and Magog together against Jeruselum with the rest of the world????

Thanks.

Celtic

 

[celtic_crusader]

sbbqb7n16


Tyrus is another name for tyre so I think you missed this one this is not America



7
For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Old Nebbie actually did this to tyre.

9
And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.

and so nebbie did with his catapoLts and other ancient war machines.

things like bulwaks (I think my spelling is wrong there)


celtic

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Originally posted by celtic_crusader

More simply put;

Isn’t there 1000 yrs of peace first before this war in Ezekiel 38????

So , looking at rev 20 v 7-8
Can you see what I mean hear???? Is the Gog war the one coming up before jesus returns or after 1000 yrs peace when Satan is loosed to muster Gog and Magog together against Jeruselum with the rest of the world????

Thanks.

Celtic [/B]

Hello celtic crusader,
I believe this Gog and Magog in Rev. is alltogether a different rebellion after their punishment for the 1000 years.

In Ezekiel 38 & 39, I hold to the belief, that it is two different, or separate wars. The first invasion is after the rapture of the church, which is also before the 7 year tribulation period. I believe that scripture backs this theory. This is where Russia and the Arabs attack Israel, but they are quickly defeated. This could be like a short WW III. >>> The second invasion is part of the Armeggedon war in the tribulation. This war is not limited to just Russia and the Arabs, but will include the entire world, which will also turn and fight against the second coming of Christ. This is where Jesus has to intervene, otherwise no flesh would be saved. Here is where He will sentence Satan to 1000 years in the bottomless pit. Then after the 1000 years are up, foolish Satan will be very angry and try again to fight against God. This is the rebellion spoken of in Rev. 20.

I will try to show a better picture of the differences in Ezekiel in a couple of days, but I don't have much time right now. Monday things start to slow down for me. See you then.

 

[celtic_crusader]

thunder,
so , after the 1000 yrs gog and magog will be gathered for a second time and attack the same place and have the same end of destruction at gods hand???

ok , till later , keep those thing in mind hear???

I`m a little sceptical , I might check it out too.

thanks

celtic

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Plenty of differences between the war of Ezekiel 38 and the war of Armageddon. I believe that Ezekiel 38 mostly talks about a war that will happen before the tribulation, but it also briefly mentions the one that will come later, Armageddon, but there are clearly some major differences. I will tackle them here now.

POINT ONE - In Ezekiel - there are definate allies mentioned and they are limited in number, while other nations stand in opposition. But, in Armageddon- All nations are allied together against Jerusalem without exception.

POINT TWO - In Ezekiel - the invasion comes from the north. But, in Armageddon - the invasion comes from the whole earth.

POINT THREE - In Ezekiel - the purpose of the Russian invasion is to take spoil or rob them. But, in Armageddon - the purpose will be to destroy ALL the jews.

POINT FOUR - In Ezekiel - there is a protest against the invasion. But, in Armageddon - there is NO protest, because ALL nations are coming against Israel.

POINT FIVE - In Ezekiel - the invasion is stopped by the convulsions of Nature. But, the Armageddon invasion is stopped by the second coming of Christ.

POINT SIX - In Ezekiel - the invasion is stopped on the mountains of Israel. But, in Armageddon - the invasion is stopped in the area between Petra and Jerusalem.

POINT SEVEN - In Ezekiel - the invasion takes place while Israel is living securely in the land. But, in Armageddon the invasion takes place while Israel is in flight, or in hiding after the Abomination that causes Desolation.

These seven points or differences are why I believe that the rapture will happen first, then Russia will have a short period of time to attack with the Arabs. But it is clearly a different war than Armageddon. I believe that Armageddon is only briefly mentioned in Ezekiel 38 : 8 - After many days you will be called to arms (the hook in her jaw). In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. (peace) = tribulation. (Perenthesis) added here are mine.

 

[celtic_crusader]

they are good points THUNDER and I have considered a few of those myself before.

one thing though. you said;

POINT FIVE - In Ezekiel - the invasion is stopped by the convulsions of Nature. But, the Armageddon invasion is stopped by the second coming of Christ.

but I get the impresion that the gog and magog war of revelations is 1000 yrs after the second coming of christ just before the final judgment.

so , what do you mean by saying that this war is before jesus return???

also , I have wondered if armagedon and the gog and magog war in rev 21 is even the same war.

I am not shore myself but I thaught it was that armageddon comes just before jesus return but after jesus rules for 1000 yrs there is another war between gog and isreal.

I should spend a bit of time on this and then come back and talk about this because it would be interesting to work out.

to work the future out is hard for me but if I see a prophesy that comes from the past I am quiick to notice it and be shore about it.

I am not shore about future avents though. it doesn`t seem like anyone else is either for that matter with some of the uneducated stuff that comes out in the churchs.

thanks

celtic.