Who's The Queen of Heaven?

Defensor Christi

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The difficulty, of couse, is that the Bible never assigns a title to Mary. Later theologians who were not content with her not having a title decided to deduce various titles for her, such as Theotokos (Mother of God), Queen of Heaven, Co-Redemptrix, etc.). One can employ logic in the most wonderful ways to reach the strangest conclusions. I suggest the we not go there and just let Mary be Mary.

The Bible is NEVER assigned the title of Holy Bible either...in fact the bible doesnt define a lot of theological dogma the majority of Christendom accepts...that argument holds very little water.
 
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Fireinfolding

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1 kings 2:19
When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king's mother, and she sat down at his right hand.


Solomon was a king of Israel, and Jesus is called Son of David by the blind man
calling Mary Queen of Heaven is about the fact that she is the Mother of Jesus who is the King of heaven
see how the kings of Israel treated their mothers?

One greater then Solomon was here obviously, the one who actually created Mary (who is called the handmaid of the Lord)

Here Mary desires to speak to Jesus Christ also, I dont think they are compareable in the sense Solomon didnt create the one who he came through as Jesus Christ did.

Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?


Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!


Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Granting who sits at his right hand and left was his to give He says

Mark 10:37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.


They didnt know what they were asking, he replies...

Mark 10:40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

Gotta be gone for a bit, but in Joseph it shows his mother and brethren bowing to him.
 
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Defensor Christi

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One greater then Solomon was here obviously, the one who actually created Mary (who is called the handmaid of the Lord)

Here Mary desires to speak to Jesus Christ also, I dont think they are compareable in the sense Solomon didnt create the one who he came through as Jesus Christ did.

Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?


Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!


Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Granting who sits at his right hand and left was his to give He says

Mark 10:37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.


They didnt know what they were asking, he replies...

Mark 10:40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

Gotta be gone for a bit, but in Joseph it shows his mother and brethren bowing to him.


That has no bearing on her eternal position as Queen of Heaven...she was still planted firmly upon this mortal coil...
 
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B

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The Bible is NEVER assigned the title of Holy Bible either...in fact the bible doesnt define a lot of theological dogma the majority of Christendom accepts...that argument holds very little water.

So, who calls the Bible the Holy Bible? Not me. I might agree that it is the holy Bible (as opposed to the unholy Bible?).
 
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Defensor Christi

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So, who calls the Bible the Holy Bible? Not me. I might agree that it is the holy Bible (as opposed to the unholy Bible?).
King%20James%20Bible.jpg

Only every Protestant who uses this......
 
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Defensor Christi

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At the cross, who is Mary's son, per Jesus?

The Church, as represented by the beloved Apostle St. John...She is our mother as well as the Queen of Heaven and the Mother of God....I dont see the conflict here....

She was crowned Queen of Heaven after she was assumed body and soul into Heaven...
 
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Standing Up

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The Church, as represented by the beloved Apostle St. John...She is our mother as well as the Queen of Heaven and the Mother of God....I dont see the conflict here....

She was crowned Queen of Heaven after she was assumed body and soul into Heaven...

If you don't see the conflict, it's because of those additional words bolded added to what Jesus said that isn't seen because it's not there.

The point is one greater than Solomon is here. This means the 'things of Solomon' may not be accurately applied to Christ. In this case, Christ tells Mary she is John's son. The idea of applying therefore what happened with Solomon/Bathsheba would not apply to Christ or Mary.
 
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Standing Up

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that is because Zeus and Jupiter were proper names, and Ba'al is more of a title
it means Lord, like that is the translation of Ba'al

as for keeping with the traditions, you have quoted Origen who is referancing the term "Queen of Heaven" with a specific pagan cult that was causing trouble at that time, Origen did not referance that term when talking about Mary

That's because it never crossed anyone's mind at that time to do so! That's the point of the OP. Queen of heaven was not kosher.

When was queen of heaven applied to Mary? Not for the first couple centuries. Why later did it become associated with Mary?


as for not offending our brothers, not putting a stumbling block in front of them, I do agree with you on that, and that is why I do not bring up this term a lot when I am talking with most Protestants, they might not understand the term Queen of Heaven and it would just creep them out

What about calling God the Father? many pagan gods were allso called Father, I know Odin was, I think maybe Zues too, does that mean Christians should not call God the Father?

Haven't heard about calling pagan gods father, so can't comment.
 
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Defensor Christi

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If you don't see the conflict, it's because of those additional words bolded added to what Jesus said that isn't seen because it's not there.

The point is one greater than Solomon is here. This means the 'things of Solomon' may not be accurately applied to Christ. In this case, Christ tells Mary she is John's son. The idea of applying therefore what happened with Solomon/Bathsheba would not apply to Christ or Mary.

Does Jesus sit upon David's throne?

Did Jesus say or do anything in Scripture that did not have meaning? Was He just being sentimental? Whom did St. John (the only Apostle present at the foot of the cross) represent?
 
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Lion King

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1 kings 2:19
When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king's mother, and she sat down at his right hand.


Solomon was a king of Israel, and Jesus is called Son of David by the blind man
calling Mary Queen of Heaven is about the fact that she is the Mother of Jesus who is the King of heaven
see how the kings of Israel treated their mothers?

Are you saying that Christ will bow down to Mary?
 
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Rhamiel

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Are you saying that Christ will bow down to Mary?
no no no
that was not my intent
the Bible verse I posted was about King Solomon who was just a human King, though one annointed by God, while Christ is God and Man
so the analogy between the two is not perfect
the kingship of the line of David is a shadow of the kingship of Christ
 
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Lion King

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no no no
that was not my intent
the Bible verse I posted was about King Solomon who was just a human King, though one annointed by God, while Christ is God and Man
so the analogy between the two is not perfect
the kingship of the line of David is a shadow of the kingship of Christ

You shouldn't have used that biblical passage, since Christ is greater than Mary. It will be Mary who will be bowing down to Christ, not the other way round. And no, Christ will not stand up for Mary nor pull out a seat for her beside Himself.

They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory.”

“You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?”

“We can,” they answered.

Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared.” Mark 10:37-40


Did the Father tell you Mary would be at Christ's right/left hand?:confused:
 
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Defensor Christi

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he made a valid point, and I think I did a good job answering it


You did answer it quite well...however, I dont think the point is valid..the scripture was used as an example of the office/position that Mary now holds...not how things are acted out in Heaven...

I think its "nit-picking" to draw attention away from the valid answer....
 
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Lion King

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