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Whoever is not against us is FOR us...

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Humble_Disciple, Jul 23, 2021.

  1. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

    +359
    United States
    Protestant
    Divorced
    When it comes to teachers who might not be from our tradition of Christianity, why not look at the words of scripture, that whoever is not against us is for us?

    Why should a cessationist turn Pentecostals away for speaking in tongues? Why should a Baptist turn Lutherans away for baptizing infants? Why should a Calvinist turn Arminians away for believing in free will? Why should a Protestant turn Catholics away, who sincerely love Jesus?*

    Mark 9
    38 Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”39 But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. 40 For he who is not against us is on our side. 41 For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.

    Matthew 7
    16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

    Matthew 12
    25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?

    John 13:35
    By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.

    John 17
    20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

    1 Corinthians 1
    11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

    1 Corinthians 8:2-3
    Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.

    Titus 3:9
    But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

    2 Timothy 2:23-24
    Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.

    Romans 15:5-7
    May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
    upload_2021-7-23_17-37-45.png

    *The Catholic church might be corrupt as an institution, but the same can be said of most denominational structures. If Catholic priests were on the side of Satan, how would they be able to perform exorcisms? Mark 9:38-39, Matthew 12:26

    “They’ll Know We Are Christians by Our Love,” loved by Protestants and Catholics, was written by a Catholic priest:


    In the words of John Calvin, "How do we know that God has elected us before the creation of the world? By believing in Jesus Christ," not by the exactness of our theology.

    "IN ESSENTIALS UNITY, IN NON-ESSENTIALS LIBERTY, IN ALL THINGS CHARITY.”
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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  2. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

    +359
    United States
    Protestant
    Divorced
    May God have mercy on us Christians for our divisions and strifes.
     
  3. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

    +2,294
    Catholic
    Married
    Long live ecumenism! Yes, we'll know them by their fruits. By their love to put it best, IMO.
     
  4. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

    +359
    United States
    Protestant
    Divorced
    I don't usually use the term ecumenism, because I don't think we should have ecumenism with denominations that practice same-sex marriage and deny Jesus' uniqueness as Lord and Savior. I also disagree with certain things that Pope Francis has said, as have many traditional Catholics.

    Ecumenism made more sense when denominations were more traditional in their teachings. Perhaps we should have ecumenism between traditional Christians.

    "IN ESSENTIALS UNITY, IN NON-ESSENTIALS LIBERTY, IN ALL THINGS CHARITY.”
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  5. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

    +2,294
    Catholic
    Married
    I agree that it can’t work just anywhere. But where we find common ground it should be applauded. And while I’m not a fan of everything Francis says, Catholicism is defined in its catechism and defined dogma, not in the comments of any one Catholic at any one point in time, even the Pope.
     
  6. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

    +359
    United States
    Protestant
    Divorced
    Here's how Christians of various denominations should approach one another:

    Titus 3:9
    But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

    2 Timothy 2:23-24
    Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.

    1 Corinthians 8:2-3
    Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.

    Romans 14:1-15:7
    14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
    5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
    10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:
    “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
    ‘every knee will bow before me;
    every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
    12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
    13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
    19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
    22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
    15 We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. 2 Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up. 3 For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: “The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me.” 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
    5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, 6 so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
     
  7. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

    +359
    United States
    Protestant
    Divorced
    Listening to Francis Chan got me to rethink what our relationship should be with the Catholic church. He has no intention of becoming Catholic, but he wants us to love and respect Catholics as our Christian brothers and sisters, regardless of whatever differences we might have over finer points of theology.

    He also disagreed with Pentecostals that spiritual gifts are still available today until he healed deaf children while visiting Burma recently.

    Mark Driscoll has said the same things about Catholics and Pentecostals as well, that we need to be more understanding and tolerant. Driscoll said that when nonbelievers see Christians being ugly to each other over sectarian differences, the only winner is the devil.

    Unlike Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics don't deny essential, historic Christian teachings. The reason why I can't be Catholic is how much they've added in addition to what the Bible teaches.

    It was also Catholics who started the prolife movement, almost immediately after Roe vs. Wade, while Protestant churches were hesitant to take a position on it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
  8. Hmm

    Hmm I'm just this guy, you know

    +1,853
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    In Relationship
    But that poses quite a problem doesn't it? Who decides on the "essentials" and the issue of what's traditional or not is always subject to change as we learn more about the early church.
     
  9. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

    +2,713
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Years go walking with my wife in Glen Calf I saw this man standing infront of a movie theater yelling at them how wrong it was. I knew Christ would never do that.. yet I asked the lord "is this man of you?" He said "if he is for me he is not against me".

    There are PEOPLE PREACHERS that do not preach the way WE would like the way WE believe it should be done. Yet.. they are for HIM not against Him. There are not countless people RUNNING To GOD USE ME!

    Speak we need to speak words of life.. see the GOOD in others first.. pray for them when we believe they are in error.. stand in the gap for them
     
  10. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

    +359
    United States
    Protestant
    Divorced
    I am so tired of sectarianism that, if not for the sake of convenience, I would never call myself a Calvinist.

    There's a big difference between joining the Calvinist bandwagon and humbly reading the Bible as the final authority and coming to realize that it happens to agree with Calvinism. If you put the Bible first, and not your sectarian interpretation, then you can continue in peace and fellowship with non-Calvinists.

    My only intent in communicating the doctrinal foundations of Calvinism to non-Calvinists has been to avoid being mislabeled as a heretic, not to prod others into joining some sort of bandwagon.
     
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