Whoever humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

[RaymondG]

I think the best approach is to assume that you are completely unworthy of any grace or blessings. Those who pursue such things are very liable to deception. Just try to follow Christ and love your neighbour. In trying you will be humbled by the countless times that you fall short.

Im not too sure about this approach....Even the world knows that one who continues to doubt themselves will most likely achieve very little. Much the same in spiritual matters. The very essence of faith......knowing that you have already, that which you cannot see, determines that this spirit of unworthiness cannot be present.

I am what God says I am. We are more than conquerors....heads and not tails......lenders.....lights that should not be hidden.....and we must know this.

Yet, this is not by or because of any good work of our own....lest any man should boast.

 

[RaymondG]

This is gonna sound weird, but I have to say it: When everybody starts agreeing with me, I get a little bit concerned that I may be wrong.

Yes, the path is narrow...few there be that fine it....very unlikely for one to be able to look around and find another in their view.....yet very unlikely for them to be looking around after their hand is placed on the plow.

I am not on my way to heaven unless more than half the people I speak with view me as on my way to hell.... Not because I desire it.....this is just the way things are.

 

[RaymondG]

If you can explain how your question relates to my question, I’ll try to answer it. As it stands, I don’t see the relevance.

Feel free to ignore, or view as rhetorical, questions you deem unworthy of your response. There may be others who would like to discuss it as is.

 

[Religiot]

What is your view on those who tell us how to get to heaven, before going there themselves?

I love preachers of the gospel! Don't you?

Is it akin to teaching carpentry without ever having built anything oneself? And which is more acceptable or dangerous to do?

Here carpentry is the keeping of the freely given faith.

--why you would imagine that it's supposed to be eyewitness testimony of heavenly ascension is beyond me.

 

[setst777]

If you do not understand the old testament, you cannot understand the New.....For the Old wrote about Jesus. "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me."

The NT profusely quotes the OT to teach us how the NT in Christ Jesus fulfills the OT. Therefore, if all we had was the NT, that would be sufficient.

However, the more familiar a Christian is with the entire Scriptures, then the more evidence he has for his faith. And that is a good thing.

Blessings.

 

[Lawrence87]

Im not too sure about this approach....Even the world knows that one who continues to doubt themselves will most likely achieve very little. Much the same in spiritual matters. The very essence of faith......knowing that you have already, that which you cannot see, determines that this spirit of unworthiness cannot be present.

I am what God says I am. We are more than conquerors....heads and not tails......lenders.....lights that should not be hidden.....and we must know this.

Yet, this is not by or because of any good work of our own....lest any man should boast.

I suppose one should separate doubt from readiness to believe. Being in a state of wanting to receive spiritual gifts is a dangerous state to put oneself in because the evil one will see an opportunity in such a person to deceive them. The devil may appear as an angel of light and if you are ready to believe you shall likely receive him. Of course one does not need to doubt everything, but one needs to er on the side of caution with these matters, because you may fall into spiritual delusion.

 

[Hammster]

Feel free to ignore, or view as rhetorical, questions you deem unworthy of your response. There may be others who would like to discuss it as is.

I didn’t say I would ignore it, if you’ll read what I wrote. I just don’t see how it relates to my post, and was asking for clarification.

 

[zoidar]

Actually this doesnt sound humble at all. Looking at another as if they are in need of help if they do not accept what I say as truth? I would not advise this line of reasoning....for it could be I who is in need and not they.

Maybe both of us are in need of help and support? What would you suggest?

 

[ViaCrucis]

“At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, ‘Who then is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?’ Jesus invited a little child to stand among them. ‘Truly I tell you,’ He said, ‘unless you change and become like little children, you will NEVER enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.’” Matthew 18:1-4


Jesus was directing this truth to His disciples, those who claimed to follow Him. Many think that it is how much we know (scripture knowledge) that matters most in today’s Christianity; however, Jesus’ message concerning our becoming like simple, humble, and trusting (faith filled) little children challenges this very notion! Why is it that so many “Christians” pride themselves in how much they believe they know about the scriptures instead of simply fostering a deep rooted personal relationship, just as a child would, with Jesus Christ?

Jesus wants to be clear, that greatness in the kingdom is not about glory and power or honor and prestige. They wished to find out who was greatest among themselves, was it Simon, the son of Jonah, to whom Christ said, "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church"? How about when James and John the sons of Zebedee had come privately to ask much the same thing?

But Jesus consistently points His disciples not to glory, but to lowliness. Saying earlier in Matthew's Gospel that none born of women were greater than John the Baptist, yet the least in the kingdom is greater than he. What does the Lord mean by these words? He speaks of Himself--the Son of God come down in weakness, as the least of all, who would be betrayed, handed over to Gentiles, crucified between two brigands, mocked, spat upon, and die a death of humility and shame. The Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve.

Likewise He said to them that the greatest among them is their slave. The least shall be greatest, the last shall be first, all who lift themselves up shall be humbled, and the lowly shall be lifted up.

So it is here, they ask which shall be greatest. For they imagine still a kingdom of a restored Israel, with Jesus on a throne of power--and they as His closest followers shall be rewarded when He assumes His messianic authority and power as King. But Jesus points them away from this, over and over again. And so when they ask Him this, this time He bids a small child to come and stand in their midst, presenting this little one, without any glory or power or strength as greatest in the kingdom. And if they would desire to be great in the kingdom, to be like one such as this.

See what He says in the Gospel of John chapter 3, "You must be born again", for He would that they transformed, converted, to become as a little child. That their place in the kingdom is not a position of earthly glory and power; but rather to share in His weakness and humility. To become like a little child, born anew from God by the power of His grace, and to be a child--lowly, hearing and learning the word taught to them, growing in grace and faith.

There are enough self-important adults in the world, the kings, emperors, magistrates, scribes, Pharisees, governors, etc. What Christ would have is a Church of loving, compassionate, humble people who, in imitation of Himself, would bear the love of God into the world through His Gospel. For to them He would call and command the preaching of forgiveness in His name, and in making disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The kingdom does not come from self-importance, in the vain glory of power, strength, pride, etc. It is not to the self-important adults, for lords and kings and the rich and powerful; but for the lowly. For He has declared, "Blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom of God", and He extends this to more than just the financially poor, but calls us to be like the poor in saying in Matthew's version, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven". He speaks of suffering for the sake of righteousness, in the blessedness of the hungry for they shall be fed, the blessedness of those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Therefore, let us see ourselves not as self-important adults, but as humble children. That we might love unconditionally, serve charitably, give generously. To do justice, love kindness, and to walk humbly before our God.

For that to happen we must be changed, and that change comes by the grace of God through the Gospel, on account of Christ's atoning work on the cross. So that when we are converted and born of God, we are new creatures. Anew in Christ, with a brand new man in Him, which is made alive by the Holy Spirit--even as we wrestle against the flesh of the old Adam still fighting within us. Thus we are set forth on the road as disciples, carrying the cross of discipleship in the world, as humble and repentant sinners, as God's dear and beloved children--to be His Church. And in this way, Christ as King rules and reigns over His kingdom, even now.

He who suffered and died, rose again, ascended into the heavens, and is seated at the right hand of the Father, from whence He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead.

In this life, let us live these things as true, because they are.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

Jesus wants to be clear, that greatness in the kingdom is not about glory and power or honor and prestige. They wished to find out who was greatest among themselves, was it Simon, the son of Jonah, to whom Christ said, "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church"? How about when James and John the sons of Zebedee had come privately to ask much the same thing?

But Jesus consistently points His disciples not to glory, but to lowliness. Saying earlier in Matthew's Gospel that none born of women were greater than John the Baptist, yet the least in the kingdom is greater than he. What does the Lord mean by these words? He speaks of Himself--the Son of God come down in weakness, as the least of all, who would be betrayed, handed over to Gentiles, crucified between two brigands, mocked, spat upon, and die a death of humility and shame. The Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve.

Likewise He said to them that the greatest among them is their slave. The least shall be greatest, the last shall be first, all who lift themselves up shall be humbled, and the lowly shall be lifted up.

So it is here, they ask which shall be greatest. For they imagine still a kingdom of a restored Israel, with Jesus on a throne of power--and they as His closest followers shall be rewarded when He assumes His messianic authority and power as King. But Jesus points them away from this, over and over again. And so when they ask Him this, this time He bids a small child to come and stand in their midst, presenting this little one, without any glory or power or strength as greatest in the kingdom. And if they would desire to be great in the kingdom, to be like one such as this.

See what He says in the Gospel of John chapter 3, "You must be born again", for He would that they transformed, converted, to become as a little child. That their place in the kingdom is not a position of earthly glory and power; but rather to share in His weakness and humility. To become like a little child, born anew from God by the power of His grace, and to be a child--lowly, hearing and learning the word taught to them, growing in grace and faith.

There are enough self-important adults in the world, the kings, emperors, magistrates, scribes, Pharisees, governors, etc. What Christ would have is a Church of loving, compassionate, humble people who, in imitation of Himself, would bear the love of God into the world through His Gospel. For to them He would call and command the preaching of forgiveness in His name, and in making disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The kingdom does not come from self-importance, in the vain glory of power, strength, pride, etc. It is not to the self-important adults, for lords and kings and the rich and powerful; but for the lowly. For He has declared, "Blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom of God", and He extends this to more than just the financially poor, but calls us to be like the poor in saying in Matthew's version, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven". He speaks of suffering for the sake of righteousness, in the blessedness of the hungry for they shall be fed, the blessedness of those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Therefore, let us see ourselves not as self-important adults, but as humble children. That we might love unconditionally, serve charitably, give generously. To do justice, love kindness, and to walk humbly before our God.

For that to happen we must be changed, and that change comes by the grace of God through the Gospel, on account of Christ's atoning work on the cross. So that when we are converted and born of God, we are new creatures. Anew in Christ, with a brand new man in Him, which is made alive by the Holy Spirit--even as we wrestle against the flesh of the old Adam still fighting within us. Thus we are set forth on the road as disciples, carrying the cross of discipleship in the world, as humble and repentant sinners, as God's dear and beloved children--to be His Church. And in this way, Christ as King rules and reigns over His kingdom, even now.

He who suffered and died, rose again, ascended into the heavens, and is seated at the right hand of the Father, from whence He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead.

In this life, let us live these things as true, because they are.

-CryptoLutheran

Thank you CryptoLutheran for your insight and words. I pray you will be blessed and well today.

 

[RaymondG]

Being in a state of wanting to receive spiritual gifts is a dangerous state to put oneself in because the evil one will see an opportunity in such a person to deceive them.

This seems to be in opposition of Scripture:
"Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."

"30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."

God hath not given us a spirit of Fear......I would advise against the notion to not seek gifts because of fear of an evil one, or deception.

This is akin to telling a child not to go to college, because there is a chance they may not finish and be left with debt and no degree to show for it.

The devil may appear as an angel of light and if you are ready to believe you shall likely receive him.

And Christ may come as the son of a Carpenter riding on a Donkey. Being quick to dismiss or avoid, can have the same effect as being quick to believe strange new things.

Of course one does not need to doubt everything, but one needs to er on the side of caution with these matters, because you may fall into spiritual delusion.

Yes, I prefer the path of neutrality. Accept and dismiss nothing.....and trust that the God will separate the true from the false.

 

[RaymondG]

Maybe both of us are in need of help and support? What would you suggest?

I would suggest that everyone earnestly examine themselves alone.....and resist the desire to examine another.

 

[Daniel of Sweden]

I see that People in this thread is still lost to The ways of the Law.

It's not about being humble, or that you May not be humble by trying to be humble. That's a circular argument.

Jesus came that by in the belief in him as The saviour, you would never again have to think "how can I be righteous" and "How can I do right?". The only thing you need to do is to have faith that Jesus saved you, and then you can follow The directions of the Holy Spirit. (And do the works God has prepared for you.)

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

I see that People in this thread is still lost to The ways of the Law.

It's not about being humble, or that you May not be humble by trying to be humble. That's a circular argument.

Jesus came that by in the belief in him as The saviour, you would never again have to think "how can I be righteous" and "How can I do right?". The only thing you need to do is to have faith that Jesus saved you, and then you can follow The directions of the Holy Spirit. (And do the works God has prepared for you.)

Amen, like a servant should do!

 

[setst777]

I see that People in this thread is still lost to The ways of the Law.

It's not about being humble, or that you May not be humble by trying to be humble. That's a circular argument.

Jesus came that by in the belief in him as The saviour, you would never again have to think "how can I be righteous" and "How can I do right?". The only thing you need to do is to have faith that Jesus saved you, and then you can follow The directions of the Holy Spirit. (And do the works God has prepared for you.)

I do see some issues on this board as to the meaning of faith. And I think some believe we are saved by faith plus works, which I cannot see.

I believe we are saved by faith alone in Lord Jesus, and a true Faith is demonstrated by following Lord Jesus - whom we put our faith in.

The problem I see is that some people do not understand what that Faith of the Gospel means, or how it is applied to our lives.

Ponder on these Passages and see what you think.

Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

Acts 20:20-21 (NIV)
20 You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house. 21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 (NIV)
20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.

Luke 21:34-36 (WEB)
34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Romans 8:12-13 (NIV)
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 6:7-9 (NIV)
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Galatians 5:13-25 (NIV)
...13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
...16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
...19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
...22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

Revelation 3:1-5 (NIV)
...1 I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
...4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.
...5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white.
I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

 

[RaymondG]

I do see some issues on this board as to the meaning of faith. And I think some believe we are saved by faith plus works, which I cannot see.

IT is not that we are saved by works......but works do follow all that are saved..... Therefore, if there are no works....how can one say that they are saved? So no, you are not saved by works, but you do works after being saved:

"17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

 

[setst777]

.

 

[setst777]

IT is not that we are saved by works......but works do follow all that are saved..... Therefore, if there are no works....how can one say that they are saved? So no, you are not saved by works, but you do works after being saved:

"17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Yes, works surely follow.

When we repent and put our faith in Jesus,

• we are committing to deny serving the carnal mind as a slave to its desires, and
• we now commit our entire lives to listen to and serve our rightful Master, Lord Jesus into a life or righteousness and love.

This total change of purpose in life is how we reveal our love for Jesus, and this faith results in a new life demonstrated in holiness (separate) onto God, and living to love and serve others.

This is the only faith by which God dwells in us by His Spirit, and by which we are saved.

Romans 6, Galatians 5:13-25

Blessings