Whoever humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

[Religiot]

By hearing you came to know. By grace you came to believe, in that revealed knowledge. Our faith is based on revelation, i.e. knowledge. If it was all intuition, then we wouldn’t need to hear; Jesus wouldn’t have to call us; we’d already possess the knowledge.

And yet in a sense there’s truth to even that because, IMO, the Shepard’s voice is an almost strangely familiar one, speaking things we may know in our heart but that have become dimmed, like a long lost memory.

Well, that is what I mean: I recognized His voice: this is because He predestined me to salvation--I am born again, of God, which means, my true existence was in His mind, as His son; thus as He knew me then, He knows me now, outside of time, in His mind.

All those of God do recognize His voice: I don't think they can help it.

 

[zoidar]

Because humility is difficult. You can even become proud of how humble you are trying to be. Look at how humble I am! Of course we should all strive to be genuinely humble but we must also ask for forgiveness for and forgive others for pride because it's easy to fall into for us fallen men.

Agree!

We may also take pride in how we think of ourselves as unworthy. Just the other ditch (is that an english expression? We say this in Swedish).

 

[Irminhart]

Be careful when praying. Demons can appear as angels of light and trick you into thinking you're close to God. It can lead you to pridefulness. Something I came to understand and acknowledge. When you get a feeling, challenge it. Challenge the spirit that comes to you.

 

[Lawrence87]

Be careful when praying. Demons can appear as angels of light and trick you imto thinking you're close to God. It can lead you to pridefulness. Something I came to understand and acknowledge. When you get a feeling, challenge it. Challenge the spirit that comes to you.

Yes, I once read that anything that seems like some kind of spiritual gift that you receive it is best to doubt it, if it is some kind of knowledge or message etc, God will find other ways to let you know, and will never look upon you harshly for being so humble as to think yourself unworthy to receive such grace.

I think the best approach is to assume that you are completely unworthy of any grace or blessings. Those who pursue such things are very liable to deception. Just try to follow Christ and love your neighbour. In trying you will be humbled by the countless times that you fall short.

 

[Direct Driver]

Will you enlighten us (seriously), on what you think that scripture means.

Thanks.

Assuming you are talking about the scripture in the OP, here goes:
He is answering their question, "who will be the greatest". I honestly think that the attitude of the disciples, early on, was similar to the attitude of a modern young person following a charismatic leader that will lead him to a position of power and wealth - perhaps a follower of one of our current billionaires, or one if the extremely popular "self help gurus". They had a lot to learn. And they did learn.

And that is who we are. We have a lot to learn and can learn from their mistakes and successes. And a big one is this scripture. It's why I use my analogy of me seeing Jesus similarly to how my dog sees me. My goal is not to be "someone special" in His kingdom. I'm just ridiculously thankful for what he did for me and his promise. And I get to be with him for eternity not because I'm anything special or could do anything to deserve it, but because he chose me. How can one be arrogant about that?

This also hints at why I believe a person errs in thinking he's better than other people because he's american, rich, of a preferred race or sex. He's not "better", though he may have been given more opportunity to do good for others. He should be doing that.

I believe that the Christian walk comes down to two things: Our relationship with our god; and a subset of that - our relationship with our fellow man. And every single one of them is an imager of God, with authority to help manage God's Kingdom on Earth.

 

[Religiot]

Assuming you are talking about the scripture in the OP, here goes:

No, not at all, but the one you quoted:

"Wise as serpents and innocent as doves" is, IMO, saying a lot more than people think, and also NOT saying what a lot of people think it is saying.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

“At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, ‘Who then is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?’ Jesus invited a little child to stand among them. ‘Truly I tell you,’ He said, ‘unless you change and become like little children, you will NEVER enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.’” Matthew 18:1-4


Jesus was directing this truth to His disciples, those who claimed to follow Him. Many think that it is how much we know (scripture knowledge) that matters most in today’s Christianity; however, Jesus’ message concerning our becoming like simple, humble, and trusting (faith filled) little children challenges this very notion! Why is it that so many “Christians” pride themselves in how much they believe they know about the scriptures instead of simply fostering a deep rooted personal relationship, just as a child would, with Jesus Christ?

Maybe some folks jump to collecting bible facts in lieu of a "real relationship" with God because the term 'relationship' as we typically think of it today isn't exactly what we usually denote by that term when used to describe our communion with God, especially if we realize that we live and breath before an Invisible, Transcendant God?

It's going to be difficult for a lot of people to feel connected to God without also feeling that they're situated ideologically (Theologically?) within an authoritative position in which they can identify God the way they would their own earthly parents. So, the amassing of bible verses in one's head and a clingling insistency upon their 'correct' spiritual meaning could replace a more existentially situated sense of actually communing [or relating] with God.

There's this and the fact that John tells us that, "No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known." (John 1:18 [NIV])

For the sake of empathy, perhaps we need to emphasize more the idea that like orphan children who might only be privy to even hearing about their real parents, we too are hearing about God the Father, being told we are 'known' by Him through His Spirit but not necessarily sensing Him in a direct way.

How might we better grapple conceptually with the idea that we can be in "relationship" with God the Father through Christ when most of us aren't really encountering God directly?

 

[Direct Driver]

No, not at all, but the one you quoted:

In a nutshell, I'd say it speaks to what's going on regarding ravi zacharias right now, as well as other examples of people "speaking for God" getting exposed as liars, cheats, rapists, etc.

Innocence is critical, and especially today. The world will pull out all the stops trying to find any and all skeletons in your closet. Innocence protects you a great deal. And so does wisdom. It helps you to "see them coming for you". There is a lot of that going on these days.

 

[RaymondG]

Why is it that so many “Christians” pride themselves in how much they believe they know about the scriptures instead of simply fostering a deep rooted personal relationship, just as a child would, with Jesus Christ?

We get no praise, from men, by sitting silently or by giving opinions with or without experience. We need to be able to quote scripture....but not too few, or you will be called a cherry picker.....and not to many, lest you be said to be taking ideas out of context.

You must also make sure your interpretation is in line with the reader or you will be deems unlearnt and ill-informed.....or even a spreader of the doctrine of devils.

But if you can navigate successful through this minefield... you should be able to amass friends and "likes/winners" a plenty.

This humility stuff you talking, is a road for the lonely.....very few traveler dare venture on it.

When traveling to work, even i, find the broader roads will multitudes, to be the safe and better roads to travel on. Not so much, on my spiritual travels, however.

 

[Direct Driver]

We get no praise, from men, by sitting silently or by giving opinions with or without experience. We need to be able to quote scripture....but not too few, or you will be called a cherry picker.....and not to many, lest you be said to be taking ideas out of context.

You must also make sure your interpretation is in line with the reader or you will be deems unlearnt and ill-informed.....or even a spreader is the doctrine of devils.

But if you can navigate successful through this minefield... you should be able to amass friends and "likes/winners" a plenty.

This humility stuff you talking, is a road for the lonely.....very few traveler dare venture on it.

When traveling to work, even i, find the broader roads will multitudes, to be the safe and better roads to travel on. Not so much, on my spiritual travels, however.

This is gonna sound weird, but I have to say it: When everybody starts agreeing with me, I get a little bit concerned that I may be wrong.

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

Maybe some folks jump to collecting bible facts in lieu of a "real relationship" with God because the term 'relationship' as we typically think of it today isn't exactly what we usually denote by that term when used to describe our communion with God, especially if we realize that we live and breath before an Invisible, Transcendant God?

It's going to be difficult for a lot of people to feel connected to God without also feeling that they're situated ideologically (Theologically?) within an authoritative position in which they can identify God the way they would their own earthly parents. So, the amassing of bible verses in one's head and a clingling insistency upon their 'correct' spiritual meaning could replace a more existentially situated sense of actually communing [or relating] with God.

There's this and the fact that John tells us that, "No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known." (John 1:18 [NIV])

For the sake of empathy, perhaps we need to emphasize more the idea that like orphan children who might only be privy to even hearing about their real parents, we to are hearing about God the Father, being told we are 'known' by Him through His Spirit but not necessarily sensing Him in a direct way.

How might we better grapple conceptually with the idea that we can be in "relationship" with God the Father through Christ when most of us aren't really encountering God directly?

Beautifully articulated explanation concerning this issue. Thank you!

To answer your follow-on question, I reflect back on your initial response concerning one's relationship with Christ. We know that prior to the moment we are born-again, as explained by Jesus in the Gospel of John, our spirit is dead to God as it is separated from Him due to our being first born as sinful man. Once we are spiritually reborn, our spirit is transformed and alive to Christ (establishing our personal relationship with Him) and the Lord send's the promised Advocate (the Holy Spirit) to interceded with us personally as we seek first His kingdom and righteousness.

This is how we mature and grow from a spiritual standpoint and learn the true mysteries of heaven. However, as you also articulated, we can also choose to grow from a human (or worldly standpoint) whereas we fill our head's with knowledge concerning Christ, but maybe never have established the necessary personal relationship needed to gain citizenship in heaven. Our soul is what hangs in the balance, and our flesh is continuously seeking the full attention of our soul to remain connected in this world as it has from our natural birth. Likewise, once we are spiritually reborn, our spirit is continuously seeking the full attention of our soul to draw closer to Christ. Thus, the tug-of-war in one's life in Christ as the battle continues for the attention of our soul.

Therefore, if we have never gained this spiritual transformation, we remain natural man and there is no tug of war except what is driven by our personal belief system based on moral and ethical values. If this is the case, we would have no choice but to fill our head's with theological knowledge to try to attain the mysteries of heaven.

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

We get no praise, from men, by sitting silently or by giving opinions with or without experience. We need to be able to quote scripture....but not too few, or you will be called a cherry picker.....and not to many, lest you be said to be taking ideas out of context.

You must also make sure your interpretation is in line with the reader or you will be deems unlearnt and ill-informed.....or even a spreader is the doctrine of devils.

But if you can navigate successful through this minefield... you should be able to amass friends and "likes/winners" a plenty.

This humility stuff you talking, is a road for the lonely.....very few traveler dare venture on it.

When traveling to work, even i, find the broader roads will multitudes, to be the safe and better roads to travel on. Not so much, on my spiritual travels, however.

Thank you, I do appreciate your insight RamondG.

 

[RaymondG]

I understand, thank you for your input. However, I am asking the question based on what I do not know concerning why so many pride themselves in what they know versus just being a simple and humble servant. That is what I am asking, not debating anything. Do you know why so many try to be modern day Scribes? I do not see the point when it comes to being a humble servant completely dependant on Christ, like a child is to their parent.

I understand both sides. I find no honor in the boasting of knowledge of scripture, e.g. man's wisdom. Yet one who is truly humble, would not question another who does this...for this would imply that you're in a better or more admirable position than they are in.....which exhibits the opposite of humility.

So then, how do we better broach this useful topic? With caution and much self examination. For I find, often, that the negative I see in others, is just a projection of and from myself....

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

I understand both sides. I find no honor in the boasting of knowledge of scripture, e.g. man's wisdom. Yet one who is truly humble, would not question another who does this...for this would imply that your in a better or more admirable position than they are......which exhibits the opposite of humility.

So then, how do we better broach this useful topic? With caution and much self examination. For I find, often, that negative I see in others, is just a projection of and from myself....

Thank you once again for a heartfelt answer to a difficult question for many. I agree with you comment and concerns and believe that this was the primary basis of the initial question. Understanding that this is real and a true concern for some help's us to direct prayer for them, as well as an opportunity to ask the Lord to help us to remain humble and not flaunt the spiritual wisdom that He has bestowed on us through His Spirit. Thank you RaymondG.

 

[RaymondG]

For instance, what if what you consider to be pride is the result of years of study and conviction?

Was the rejection of Jesus by the scribes and pharisees a result of pride from years of study and conviction? Do you believe Pride in personal studies and the convictions therefrom, is a "good" thing?

 

[Hammster]

Was the rejection of Jesus by the scribes and pharisees a result of pride from years of study and conviction? Do you believe Pride in personal studies and convictions therefrom, is a "good" thing?

If you can explain how your question relates to my question, I’ll try to answer it. As it stands, I don’t see the relevance.

 

[RaymondG]

It's easier being humble if we think of the other as someone in need of help and support.

Actually this doesnt sound humble at all. Looking at another as if they are in need of help if they do not accept what I say as truth? I would not advise this line of reasoning....for it could be I who is in need and not they.

 

[RaymondG]

To answer the question(even if it is rhetorical), in a way, the reason people “pride” themselves about knowledge is not always a bad thing. Yes, it is bad when it is actually pride, but sometimes what we judge as pride isn’t always pride in their heart.

As you stated below, wisdom is only from God.....there so be no pride anywhere, only gratefulness that you were chosen to bear this wisdom....which is not always a lite burden to bear......for to whom much is given....much is required.

Think about this. Wisdom and knowledge are priceless things to have. You know why that is? Because they only come from God. So if you have them, then it means God has given them to you.

When God gives me something, I can think of no better way of showing Him how grateful I am than sharing it with others.

Amen. Yet, there are also times when God does his work and requires that we go tell no man. God reveals as we are ready for revelation...... most times we are unsure of what another is ready to receive.

 

[RaymondG]

That is a vague statement. The Old Testament is a part of the Bible, but is not important to know as a Christian.

I agree.

The fullness of the Gospel Revelation is completely explained in the NT to make plain to everyone the riches of God's grace through Christ Jesus.

If you do not understand the old testament, you cannot understand the New.....For the Old wrote about Jesus. "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me."

 

[RaymondG]

Anyone can read books on carpentry, but if you never practice it, then you will never be a carpenter.

Same goes for Christianity!

What is your view on those who tell us how to get to heaven, before going there themselves? Is it akin to teaching carpentry without ever having built anything oneself? And which is more acceptable or dangerous to do?