Who would you rather hang out with?

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) · Dec 4, 2020

The more I read the gospels the more I'm convinced that God would rather me hang out with sinners than people esteemed in the church. And as long as I'm having more of an influence on them rather than them having a (negative) influence on me, I think God approves.

Noxot · Dec 4, 2020

What God has made clean we should not call unclean. Usually My Friends Are For Joy and laughs. I certainly don't act like I'm superior to them and that I can somehow give them what they need when often they are the ones that are blessing me. But yeah I kind of get what you mean cuz my aunt used to have a boyfriend that was wild and crazy but I was in some way still his friend if only by my association to my aunt. I prefer not to smoke meth though nowadays.

I don't hang out with anyone too much. I'm not much of a people person at all unless it's with the internet. It was pretty hellish for me back in the days when I had friends and I did things like go to bars and concerts of music that I like. It was torture to go to a friend's house to celebrate his birthday. Nothing on those people's part though, simply extreme anxiety.

With that same friend at my old job I had a spiritual experience with where all the sudden there was a strange light and it was my friend speaking but it was also God himself speaking. On those rare occasions when it seems as if God transports me out of this reality and puts me in a completely different one with him being the whole of reality pretending to be the reality I live in.... Is a pretty crazy experience.

I suppose the truth of what happens is just God showing how imminent in reality he really is. I hope everyone will get to have experiences like this.

Pavel Mosko · Dec 4, 2020

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said:
The more I read the gospels the more I'm convinced that God would rather me hang out with sinners than people esteemed in the church. And as long as I'm having more of an influence on them rather than them having a (negative) influence on me, I think God approves.

I think it's all good.

I actually have had similar kinds of notions. Before I came here I was looking for a good Christian message board because the one I was on went belly up, and this place looked to Balkanized, segregated and regulated for my taste. So I ended up at this one board that seemed a bit Fundamentalist and realized it was really hard to talk about some of my hobbies and other interests their. So I actually joined an atheist board, because I realized we often had some of the same hobbies etc. and in the past, some of my hobbies and interests actually did facilitate me talking about my Faith to outsiders. This is especially came up from those "evil" role playing games came up like Dungeons and Dragons. That sort of thing was very fruitful when the various Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies were in the theaters. I had some agnostic and atheist inclined friends who had very stereotypical view of Christianity based on the stuff they saw on TV with televangelists and groups like the moral majority. Nothing I ever did or talked about got them talking more about Christian spiritual themes of redemption, salvation etc. like those Tolkien movies in the theaters.

Pavel Mosko · Dec 4, 2020

I will say this, there can be a negative side of Judeo-Christian culture that is against having fun etc. even though that is context of some aspects of the Bible. I blogged this a few years back...

Skipping Stones and Telling Parables,

There once was a kindly aged Biblical Greek instructor that I was quite fond of. (I'm not good with languages and he made the process of studying the subject bearable and at times reasonably pleasant). He had a good demeanor about him (He actually reminded me a lot of a friend from adolescence and early adulthood). And along the way in studying, he was always good at giving some of the background context to whatever we happened to be studying that day.

On one day we got to the subject of parables. In particular, we talked about the etymology of the word parable. At that time, I had attended church for most of my life. Logging in probably at least 25 years of church attendance, and with that easily 11 years of parochial school attendance that was filled with chapel meetings and Bible stories and studies, not to mention years of Sunday school and Catechism classes yet I had never heard the background of this term.

I had always assumed that it would mean something like. "parallel truth" or "parallel relationship" etc. But the etymology was a bit different than that. It came instead by the habit of travelers. As they got bored they looked to amuse themselves and pass the time. They would start to skip stones along the path they trod. (The literal meaning of parable).

It's kind of funny growing up.... I'm not sure if its left over Victorian values, or some other element of Germanic cultural influence on my father's side, but my parent's (who are very devout Lutherans) seemed very concerned with speaking out against what they considered as "nonsense". They were very concerned with too much day dreaming and if people spent too much time doing seemingly frivolous activities. And yet here we go, one of the metaphors used to communicate profound spiritual truth about the Kingdom of God comes from a seemingly frivolous activity....

PS – I posted this story a few years back and decided to repost it since it didn’t get a lot of play back when I was new to Facebook. But I will add another related pointed while I’m at it. Most Christians are aware of the story of Mary and Martha entertaining Jesus in the Gospels (Luke 10:38–42). While many people would like to assume they would be on the right side of the issue, from what I’ve seen the opposite would be true given what I’ve seen of a lot of Church Culture (Martha would be seen as the hard working, mature and responsible one and Mary would be seen as a slacker).

bèlla · Dec 4, 2020

Pavel Mosko said:
I will say this, there can be a negative side of Judeo-Christian culture that is against having fun etc.

There is no concept of original sin in Judaism. Many of the principles found in Christianity aren't emphasized in our faith. Nor would the question of hanging out with sinners ever come to mind. Light shines in darkness. Meeting a need or being an example are well received.

Judaism isn’t anti-fun. The behavior discussions (and perceived prohibitions) you encounter on CF don't occur in mainstream Judaism. Nor would someone scrutinize your attire, interests, work, resources, etc. We're meant to impact the environment. God bestows gifts and blessings upon us for that purpose.

'Fun' might include simple activities or those requiring greater resources. There's no discrimination against means, success, etc. You aren't expected to feel ashamed. Nor is it policed. You operate from a position of consciousness guided by the Lord. Not external demands.

Judaism is fun. We did a conga line at a Friday service. The kids were dancing and everyone had a blast. We know how to let our hair down.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

Pavel Mosko · Dec 4, 2020

bèlla said:
There is no concept of original sin in Judaism.

Yeah I actually had a little thread on Mi Yoda (Jewish Stack Exchange) delving into that. Because I'm a little suspicious that "the evil inclination" was always allegorized (where most Jews do not believe that the serpent wasn't Satan etc.).

"Evil Inclination" History

The rest of non-Latin Christianity also doesn't have Original Sin, but something called Ancestral Sin, which more or less is what the "evil inclination" and iniquity is a propensity to sin, but not having some kind of guilt passed down through the generations.

bèlla said:
Judaism is fun. We did a conga line at a Friday service. The kids were dancing and everyone had a blast. We know how to let our hair down.

We got that too....

bèlla · Dec 4, 2020

Pavel Mosko said:
Because I'm a little suspicious that "the evil inclination" was always allegorized (where most Jews do not believe that the serpent wasn't Satan etc.).

Jews don't talk about Satan the way Christians do. Nor do they fear him or make him a central point of their beliefs. God is supreme. Full stop. They focus on the Holy One and His character. Knowing and serving Him is the priority.

Personal responsibility is a greater focus. I'm susceptible to X which compels me to do Y and I need to repent. That's how warfare works. You exploit the person's weaknesses. That's easier to defeat. They're interwoven with new issues which exacerbates the problem. That's how strongholds are built.

You'll never hear me say the devil made me do anything. I don't believe that. I know what I'm doing. Sometimes I make the right decision and other times I don't. I'm conscious of the difference. I'm not giving him power he doesn't possess or my attention. I'm God-centered.

The evil/guilt inclination doesn't resonate. Sinner is a different animal in Christian circles. There's no one telling me how bad I am. I'm loved and that inspires obedience, sacrifice, and so on.

We got that too....

How cool! Thanks for the link.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

Pavel Mosko · Dec 4, 2020

bèlla said:
The evil/guilt inclination doesn't resonate. Sinner is a different animal in Christian circles. There's no one telling me how bad I am. I'm loved and that inspires obedience, sacrifice, and so on.

I know what you mean.... Some people in Christianity can get really into concepts like "Total Depravity" etc. in Calvinism especially and even go further with it that Calvin or Saint Augustine might say. Pretty much saying or implying that everybody is innately a piece of crap etc. Which almost begs the question of why God would create the World or send Jesus to die for humanity etc. (other than Him being really merciful etc.).

bèlla · Dec 4, 2020

Pavel Mosko said:
I know what you mean.... Some people in Christianity can get really into concepts like "Total Depravity" etc. in Calvinism especially and even go further with it that Calvin or Saint Augustine might say. Pretty much saying or implying that everybody is innately a piece of crap etc. Which almost begs the question of why God would create the World or send Jesus to die for humanity etc. (other than Him being really merciful etc.).

Psychological bondage and threats don't warrant peace. The person is in a continual loop of fear and disgust. They can't grasp benevolence or grace. Because shame and condemnation is all they've heard. Love doesn't register at all.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

Pavel Mosko · Dec 4, 2020

bèlla said:
Psychological bondage and threats don't warrant peace. The person is in a continual loop of fear and disgust. They can't grasp benevolence or grace. Because shame and condemnation is all they've heard. Love doesn't register at all.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

The most notorious example of this in recent life came from a Spiritual Gifts group on Facebook. The guy running it really got into this sort of thing. There was something I could tell in his family background etc. That I think wounded his personality, actually having no father figure in his life being probably the issue.

But he really liked to demagogue different issues because it basically preached well. It kind of did the opposite for me... I basically had to refute over the top claims, on issues where I would normally be supportive on had the person been halfway reasonable.

But it was fun being there for a few months. I would not consider myself that gifted on the various revelatory gifts. But I had a lot of success on "prophetic" dream interpretation by seriously working and applying all the Types and shadows, and background historical stuff to the issue at hand. I did it kind of like a game just to see how I could fare against people that were really into that stuff.

bèlla · Dec 4, 2020

Pavel Mosko said:
The most notorious example of this in recent life came from a Spiritual Gifts group on Facebook.

LOL You had to know Spiritual Gifts + Facebook = A Hot Mess!

The guy running it really got into this sort of thing. There was something I could tell in his family background etc. That I think wounded his personality, actually having no father figure in his life being probably the issue.

At some point you realize your perspective is way outside the norm. If you're the only one with the truth and every one is wrong; you've gotta question that. You may need to reconsider your position.

But he really liked to demagogue different issues because it basically preached well. It kind of did the opposite for me... I basically had to refute over the top claims, on issues where I would normally be supportive on had the person been halfway reasonable.

Psychology is an important part of my life. When your mind is wonky you don't see clearly. Everything is skewed and you make a lot of mistakes. The worse thing that could happen is to have someone validate the lie. Now you're stuck and dig in your heels.

But it was fun being there for a few months. I would not consider myself that gifted on the various revelatory gifts. But I had a lot of success on "prophetic" dream interpretation by seriously working and applying all the Types and shadows, and background historical stuff to the issue at hand. I did it kind of like a game just to see how I could fare against people that were really into that stuff.

What did you like about dream interpretation? Sometimes I know what it means immediately. Otherwise, I ask for the Lord's input.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

Pavel Mosko · Dec 4, 2020

bèlla said:
What did you like about dream interpretation? Sometimes I know what it means immediately. Otherwise, I ask for the Lord's input.

I believe we do from time to time have spiritual dreams, but dreams are much more likely to be a window of the soul than something prophetic. I actually did a lot of reading on it every once in a while from late high school, to college into graduate school, and took a class just about dreams and dream interpretation at UC Santa Cruz in 1989.

The biggest predictor of our dream content is what is going on in our waking life. So it is really risky to read lots of stuff into your dreams, I've met or seen lots of people who seem to think everything they dream is spiritual or prophetic. That really leads to "hot messes" like the one below.

bèlla · Dec 4, 2020

Pavel Mosko said:
The biggest predictor of our dream content is what is going on in our waking life. So it is really risky to read lots of stuff into your dreams, I've met or seen lots of people who seem to think everything they dream is spiritual or prophetic. That really leads to "hot messes" like the one below.

We should stop going on record with wishful thinking and calling it the Lord. It's fine to hope for a certain outcome. But when you add His name to the mix things go south. Her record is pretty bad. She's wrong a lot!

~bella

Noxot · Dec 6, 2020

Dreams are part of synchronicity, The natural flow of reality. Angels and other beings are in our dreams more than we would think, but they may be veiled in characters and things we experience while awake.

those very characters are often part of the symbolic wisdom. Spirits are connected to our memories because our memories are part of our self and we're having spiritual communion to become. All the mapping in our brain becomes a living language that God plays with.

I only talked to my dad a few times in my life over the internet. His brother recently had died. he told me that he had a dream that his brother was at a bus station and his brother was trying to talk him but he couldn't. You can interpret this in a purely atheistic and psychological way or you can interpret it as having a psychological and spiritual meaning. The brother was going somewhere else and since he was dead he couldn't talk to his brother no more. Funny though cause he was in the dream and somewhat communicating.

Carl Jung experienced and studied a whole bunch of different phenomena. I don't know that much about him but I heard that later in his life he was more agnostic than religious. He still would have been one heck of a friend to hang out with though.

Sketcher · Dec 6, 2020

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said:
The more I read the gospels the more I'm convinced that God would rather me hang out with sinners than people esteemed in the church. And as long as I'm having more of an influence on them rather than them having a (negative) influence on me, I think God approves.

That might be true sometimes, but you need fellowship with believers too. It's usually best to make it a point to hang around both regularly, not always at the same time.

Niels · Dec 7, 2020

bèlla said:
Jews don't talk about Satan the way Christians do. Nor do they fear him or make him a central point of their beliefs. God is supreme. Full stop. They focus on the Holy One and His character. Knowing and serving Him is the priority.

Personal responsibility is a greater focus. I'm susceptible to X which compels me to do Y and I need to repent. That's how warfare works. You exploit the person's weaknesses. That's easier to defeat. They're interwoven with new issues which exacerbates the problem. That's how strongholds are built.

You'll never hear me say the devil made me do anything. I don't believe that. I know what I'm doing. Sometimes I make the right decision and other times I don't. I'm conscious of the difference. I'm not giving him power he doesn't possess or my attention. I'm God-centered.

The evil/guilt inclination doesn't resonate. Sinner is a different animal in Christian circles. There's no one telling me how bad I am. I'm loved and that inspires obedience, sacrifice, and so on.

How cool! Thanks for the link.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

Not all Christians talk about the Devil the same way, or even talk about him much at all, but Christians should fear God rather than Satan.

Where I'm from, the idea that "The devil made me do it" is considered cop-out. Even the serpent in Genesis didn't "make" Adam and Eve do anything. It was their own decision, and they faced the consequences. There's still evil in the world, but Satan's doom is sealed. It's kind of the point of Christianity. In the meantime, we're to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves, so we're not deceived.

For a long time, personal responsibility was a cornerstone of the Judeo-Christian work ethic. Among many (most?) it probably still is.

angelsaroundme · Jan 28, 2022

Some people say God gives you your family and you choose your friends. I feel like God gave me both. But I'm not a social butterfly that everyone immediately loves. The amount of people I resonate with has always been more selective. If God wanted us to be friends, maybe we had something to learn from each other.

Who would you rather hang out with?

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