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Who will not inherit the kingdom?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by fli, Mar 31, 2022.

  1. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    Paul is sent to the gentiles with the Acts 15:20 message.
    "But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols,
    and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood."

    Therefore, much more is expected of the circumcision who were taught the Laws of the Kingdom, in the Sermon on the Mount.

    David's repentant prayer, after Bathsheba:
    Psalms 51:1-17 9 Turn away thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit in my inward parts. 11 Cast me not away from Thy presence; and remove not Thy Holy Spirit from me. 12 Restore to me the joy of Thy salvation: establish me with Thy directing Spirit.LXX

    This is literally born-from-above:

    Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it] now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered Him. 16 And Jesus, when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him: 17 And lo a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.

    John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born from above.

    The Holy Spirit, in the Gospel of the Kingdom, comes to us if we keep the Commandments of Jesus. Born of the Spirit IS born-from-above, in this Gospel.


    John 14:15 If ye love Me, keep My Commandments and I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you for ever: the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him; but ye know him, for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
  2. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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  3. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    The seed of the woman was Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God--conceived of God the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35)--who came down from heaven (John 3:13, 6:32, 33, 38, 41, 42, 50, 51, 58, 62).
     
  4. fli

    fli Member Supporter

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    In the post I said that until Jesus died God could not have any true son except for Jesus, God called the Israelis sons but they could not be born again until Jesus earned the right to produce sons.

    Hebrews 9:12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. NKJV

    He had to be obedient to the Father. He had to be sinless and fulfill all prophecy. It was prophesied that He would die on a cross for the sins of man.

    Luke 13:32 And He said to them, "Go, tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.' NKJV

    What 3rd day was Jesus referring to? The day He was resurrected.

    Acts 13:29 Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. 30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings — that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son,Today I have begotten You.' NKJV

    They could not have fulfilled all that was written about him, had He not laid down His life. Jesus was His Son before this. Why did God say “today” I have begotten you? Because by His resurrection Jesus became “the seed” of God. The seed of man is what produces sons for him. The seed of God produces sons of God.
     
  5. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    In my post #20, I am responding to what you stated in your post #17.
     
  6. fli

    fli Member Supporter

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    Something happened on post 17 and it did not post my reply. Post 19 should have been included in post 17. When I did not see it at 17 I used it at 19. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  7. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    Sure, but that doesn't make Jesus the seed of God... or does it?
    Father God is spirit. The Holy Spirit is spirit.
    So where did the xy come from?... if not from Jesus Himself?
    The God who walked in the garden in the cool of the evening... the God who wrestled with Jacob... physical being. The root and the offspring of David...

    John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to Me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on Me shall never thirst.
    That's the explanation of this figurative language of John 6.

    *** We come to Him because the Father draws us. The words Jesus spoke are the words of the Father... the manna from Heaven.
    *** What does the thirst... rivers of living water... the Holy Spirit.
    So... the word made flesh... manna from Heaven... the bread from Heaven... His word is the bread of life... the Last Supper... eating from the tree of life.
    *** The life is in the blood... so the blood of Jesus is the life of Jesus.
    Jesus' works were done by the Holy Spirit, His words came from the Father.
    God inhabiting human flesh... was necessary for the Resurrection of Life.
    It's practically an unending circle, the beginning and end of all things God, the Alpha and Omega meeting over and over again, like a wheel within a wheel, expanding.

    John 6:33 For the bread of God is He which cometh down from Heaven, and giveth life unto the world. John 3:16, John 1:4, John 3:5-6 John 11:25

    Thank you so much!

    Sorry for the logic-os... this is a work in progress. I fixed a few typos
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
  8. smittymatt

    smittymatt Member

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    What do you think it means?
     
  9. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Are you talking chromosome?
    If so, the human Jesus couldn't provide the chromosome for his maleness at his own conception.

    You know this is not orthodox Christianity, right?
    Don't think so. . .
    God took on a human form in those cases, as angels can do, he did not become human flesh.
    "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man." (John 3:13)
    God came down from heaven and became human flesh.
    We must be enabled or we cannot come. (John 6:65)
    Nowhere in the NT does sark (flesh) mean "bread."
    Everyone's blood is their life. Remove (drain) all of anyone's blood and they die.
    God didn't "inhabit" human flesh, God became human flesh (John 1:14)
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
  10. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    Why would Jesus have to PROVIDE chromosomes... why not just BECOME one single chromosome... or whatever? There really aren't any limits... because this's above ALL of our collective pay-grade.

    Word (sound, thoughts, ideas, etc.) doesn't mean (sark) flesh, either, but it happened. And who spoke creation into being, if it wasn't Jesus?

    I don't mean inhabited some living human being, like a body-snatcher... I mean lived in (inhabited) His own human flesh.

    Jesus was with God in the beginning... so, in what form did Jesus exist? I don't see anyplace calling Jesus a spirit... but the Father and the Holy Spirit are. Why would Jesus have to be exactly like the others of the family of God? And how did they make man in their image if there was no bodily-image to duplicate?

    Here, try this:

    Daniel 10:4-21 On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, I was near the great river, which is Tigris Eddekel. 5 And I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a man clothed in linen, and his loins were girt with gold of Ophaz: 6 and his body was as Tharsis, and his face was a the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his legs as the appearance of shining brass, and the voice of his words as the voice of a multitude.

    Aren't these two the same Son of man? The one in Revelation is Jesus. The Ancient of Days has a body... because He's described. The flesh after the Resurrection was the same but different, for Jesus. A Psalm says He still has marks in His Hands. And the flesh that can tollerate having a hand put into it and someone feeling around... that's not your normal everyday flesh. I'm saying Jesus always had flesh... but it probably wasn't always runny like ours and subject to decay.

    Revelation 1:13-15 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
  11. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    The early church communicated in Greek and not English. The Greek language is much more varied than English, so they have absolutely no problem.

    Here is an explanation that goes deep into the differences between kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God with plenty of scripture. What is the difference between “the Kingdom of God” and “the Kingdom of Heaven?”

    In summary
    1. The term “the kingdom of God” includes all of God’s workings. It is divided into two realms: “the kingdom of heaven” (redeemed nation Israel) and the Church the Body of Christ (Christians from our Dispensation of Grace). The context of the verse determines which of the two spheres is being referenced. In “the kingdom of God,” the God of the Bible is worshipped and served as King. This would immediately rule out lost people (unbelievers) and Satan and his angels. Satan is called “a king over all the children of pride” (Job 41:34).
    2. The phrase “the kingdom of heaven” refers strictly to the literal, physical, visible, earthly kingdom of Israel’s program, when heaven is brought down to Earth. Paul never uses the term “kingdom of heaven” to apply to us, the Church the Body of Christ. We have no inheritance in Israel’s earthly kingdom. We are God’s heavenly people, with an inheritance in the heavenly places. The Church the Body of Christ has a role in the government of heaven, as Israel has a role in the government of earth.
    3. Paul applies the term “the kingdom of God” to us, the Church the Body of Christ. Remember, opposite to redeemed Israel, the Church the Body of Christ is the other half of “the kingdom of God.” As the God of the Bible is glorified in redeemed Israel (Earth), so He is glorified in the Body of Christ (Heaven). He works in and through both of them. He is King (Ruler) in respect to both.
    4. In Israel’s program only, “the kingdom of God” and “the kingdom of heaven” are sometimes used interchangeably. Remember, for Israel, “the kingdom of heaven” is the literal, physical, visible representation of “the kingdom of God.” In the form of the Messiah/Christ Jesus, Father God will be with Israel, physically, literally, and visibly.
    5. The only aspect of “the kingdom of God” operating today is the Church the Body of Christ. There is no redeemed Israel today (yet future). Israel is currently fallen, and she will be restored after our dispensation. Today, there is no “kingdom of heaven” being preached, no earthly kingdom about to established, et cetera. Hence, Paul never used “kingdom of heaven” with reference to us in his epistles.
     
  12. smittymatt

    smittymatt Member

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    That's very confusing.
     
  13. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    It will definitely take time to understand. =)
     
  14. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    The points with which I agree:
    (I didn't look at your link)
    That first is a very good point... it was the Kingdom of God on Earth until they asked for Moses instead of God, temple priests instead of the sure-mercies-of-David, and a human king, etc. They failed these tests.
    And the Kingdom of God was taken from Jerusalem because they killed the Son, in Matthew 21:43... the nation is ethnos = a race. Galilee of the ethnon, plural. The 10 tribes of the Divided Kingdom were still in the land, because Assyria left the poor.

    That second point... right, Paul never uses it. And "us" = the visible church.

    Point 5:
    Whenever someone quotes what Jesus taught His Galilean Disciples, they're preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. If Matthew 26:13 is the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, then so is the rest of Matthew... from the time of Matthew 4:12. And all of John is the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, and so is the Revelation. In fact, Matthew 24:14 is the only Gospel some of us ever preach.

    There was more than one Peter in the Mediterranean, back in the day. Andrew's brother Simon-Peter was only one of many. You'll know them by their fruits: what do they teach?
    1 Peter 1:1 had a very large area of Anatolia, and was sent immediately in John 20:21 to teach the Gospel of the Kingdom. This is an exact parallel of the previously-sent Matthew 10:5-7, and further confirms what was taught in Matthew 28:16-20, by the Discipled-Apostles of Galilee. And they did teach the Gospel of the Kingdom... and two of their books made it into the canon... so they still teach the (alla probaton) other sheep of Jesus, in John 10:16.

    So then... what Peter-Simeon/Cephas was hanging-out in Jerusalem, or ever went to Rome? ... My answer: not the brother of Andrew. ... It's obvious that letters were being written under the names of several people, otherwise Paul's letters written in his hand is a point that would never have been needed.
     
  15. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    Matthew 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five [were] foolish.
    moros = probably from the base of musterion; dull or stupid (as if shut up), i.e. heedless, (morally) blockhead, (apparently) absurd:--fool(-ish, X -ishness).
    Matthew 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of Mine and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man which built his house upon the sand:

    Matthew 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
    agorazo = from agora; properly, to go to market, i.e. (by implication) to purchase; specially, to redeem:--buy, redeem.
    Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire that thou mayest be rich, and white raiment that thou mayest be clothed and the shame of thy nakedness do not appear, and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve that thou mayest see.

    The wise are the church of Philadelphia, and the foolish are Laodicea.
     
  16. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The question isn't who won't enter the Kingdom, but what won't enter the Kingdom.

    Pretty much every commentator sees this wording talking about the Kingdom after death.

    E.g. "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. " (1 Cor 15:50) This is pretty obviously talking about what happens after death.

    I would argue, however, that that doesn't mean we should see this passage as establishing a list of sins that keep us out of salvation. Between this passage and a similarly worded one in Gal 5:21 I think he manages to include pretty much everyone.

    Rather, I would look at the fact that Paul understands that even those who are saved have an aspect remaining that hasn't yet been removed, which he calls "flesh." The lists of sins are those associated with "flesh," as he says in Gal 5:19. Those will not be allowed into the Kingdom, as we will be freed of them after death.

    Of course 1 Cor 6:9 is aimed at current conduct. He is telling people that these things are part of their "flesh," and not part of the Kingdom. Thus continuing in them is not consistent with being Christians. This isn't a threat that they will be damned. There's nothing in the context suggesting that. He's aware that our "flesh" continues as long as we are alive. But as Jesus' followers we are committed to eliminating it.
     
  17. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    This makes sense to me, today...
    But the word "Israelis" should be "Israelites". The blood of the father is what's used to determine heritage in the OT... but not for Israelis. {We don't really know what the blood of the handmaids of Jacob were, but we do know that Joseph married the daughter of an Egyptian priest; and we know about Rahab and Ruth, too.} Even in the lineage of Jesus, inheritance came through the male, making sense of Revelation 7:5-8... Dan, with all of his daughters.

    So then, Jesus was called King, and killed for that fact, by Roman decree.

    Psalms 2:6 But I have been made king by Him on Sion His holy mountain, 7 declaring the ordinance of the Lord: the Lord said to Me, Thou art My Son, to-day have I begotten Thee. 8 Ask of Me, and I will give Thee the heathen for Thine inheritance, and the ends of the earth for Thy possession. 9 Thou shalt rule them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces as a potter’s vessel.LXX

    And that inheritance came to these people, in as far as king-dom goes:

    Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.

    Zacharias Zechariah 13:6 And I will say to Him, What are these wounds between Thine hands? and He shall say, Those with which I was wounded in My beloved house.LXX

    John 20:25-29 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. ... 27 Then saith He to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger and behold My hands, and reach hither thy hand and thrust [it] into My side: and be not faithless, but believing.

    Revelation 1:10-17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not, I am the first and the last: 18 I am He that liveth and was dead, and, behold, I am alive for evermore...

    Psalms 45:6-14 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the sceptre of thy Kingdom is a sceptre of righteousness. 7 Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity: therefore God, Thy God, has anointed Thee with the oil of gladness beyond Thy fellows. 8 Myrrh, and stacte, and cassia are exhaled from Thy garments and out of the ivory palaces, 9 with which kings’ daughters have gladdened thee for Thine honour.
    The queen stood by on Thy right hand, clothed in vesture wrought with gold and arrayed in divers colours. 10 Hear, O daughter, and see and incline thine ear; forget also thy people and thy father’s house: 11 Because the King has desired thy beauty, for He is thy Lord. 12 And the daughter of Tyre shall adore Him with gifts, the rich of the people of the land shall supplicate thy favour. 13 All her glory is that of the daughter of the king of Esebon, robed as she is in golden fringed garments, 14 in embroidered clothing. Virgins shall be brought to the King after her: her fellows shall be brought to Thee.
    LXX

    Matthew 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's Kingdom.

    Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded, and there were great voices in Heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [that] of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign for ever and ever.


    Matthew 5:5
    μακάριοι οι πραείς ότι αυτοί κληρονομήσουσι την γην
    Blessed the meek; for they shall inherit the earth.
    --Berry's Interlinear


    Matthew 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
  18. fli

    fli Member Supporter

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    Even though Jesus was the Son of God from eternity past, Until He was able to cause people to be horn again He was not the “seed of God”. I said that he was not the seed of God until He was resurrected.

    Matthew 11:11 I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. NIV

    There was no greater prophet than John the baptist including David. But the least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than him. Why is that? Because John was once born (of women). In the kingdom everyone is twice born (Of woman and of God).

    Romans 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. NIV

    God left the sins of the OT saints unpunished. The OT saints went to a place in the earth called paradise or Abraham's bosom. There they waited for Jesus to be crucified so their sins could be forgiven and be born of God.

    Hebrews 9:12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. NIV

    All the blood of animals did was purify them outwardly.

    Hebrews 10:3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4 because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. NIV

    The blood of animals did not take the sins away.

    Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. NIV

    John 12:23 Jesus replied, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. NIV

    Jesus said unless He died He could not produce fruit.

    John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. NIV

    Jesus is not talking about communion. To eat His flesh and drink His blood is the hearing of Faith. When someone believes they are in the new covenant. Until one believes in Jesus they have no life in them.

    In the law of Moses they were forbidden to eat or drink the blood of any creature as the life of the creature was in the blood. Every time we have communion we are proclaiming that Jesus is living within us.

    Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession — to the praise of his glory. NIV

    When one believes in Jesus they get His Spirit.

    John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. NIV

    His Spirit gives life.

    1 John 3:9 No one who I;s born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. NIV

    His Spirit gives birth to a son of God
     
  19. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    What do you do with contradictions? (I think of Galatians 2:7 and Acts 15:20)

    Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
    Genesis 3:23, LXX ... is the same Greek word.
    και εξαπέστειλεν αυτόν κύριος οθεός εκ του παραδείσου
    and ejected him LORD God from the paradise
     
  20. fli

    fli Member Supporter

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    From the scriptures you cited it sounds to me like you are disputing my original argument that the drunks are in heaven. There are plenty of scriptures that seem to be in disagreement to the drunks going to heaven.

    1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. NIV

    The above makes it sound like only people who obey His commands are sons of God.

    John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. NIV

    It is true if you love Jesus you will obey His commands. Those people who obey His commands, and believe in Him, are sons of God. Do all sons of God have to be obedient?

    Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. NIV

    Jesus is the end of the law. Why is He the end of the law? So those who believe in Him may be righteous. The law does not have any power over those who believe. Therefore; God does not command us to obey the law. God asks us to be obedient children and conduct ourselves to make Him proud. That is the least we should do. But we are not required to do even that. We are required to remain in Him.

    1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. NIV

    This is the victory that overcomes the world- our belief in Jesus. To believe in Jesus one believes: that the Son of God, Jesus, is their savior, that He died for their sins and He was resurrected for their justification. Are those who overcome the world sons of God?

    Revelation 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers,
    who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. 11 They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. 12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury,because he knows that his time is short." NIV


    What did they over come with? Was it their deeds? Was it their works? No! It was the blood of Jesus and their words.

    Luke 21:14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. 15 For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. NIV


    For those who face death because of their testimony They must rely on Jesus to get them through.
     
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