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Featured Who/what are the 144,000 Israelites ?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    According to the Bible, Jesus, Paul and John revealed, those of us who belong to His Church, will be CAUGHT UP [Raptured] to Him in the clouds of the sky, before the antichrist is revealed, as recorded in 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. Who triggers the seven year tribulation/70th Week of Daniel, God decreed Israel to go through in Dan.9:27.

    [In connection with the Church = Jn.14:1-4 and 28; 1 Thes.4:14-18 and 2 Thes.2:1-8]. In connection with Israel = Jer.30:7 and Dan.9:27, where the person who 'confirms a covenant/treaty/agreement with Israel is the antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in that vs, triggers the 70th and final 'Week,'/seven year tribulation/Day of the Lord. Seen also in 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7- 8].

    Jesus said He has two sheep folds, Israel whom He was addressing, and the "other one He must also bring," the Church, according to Jn.10:16. He prophecied that they will become one fold with one Shepherd. He also said many who are first will be last [Israel] and many who are last will be first [The Church] in Mt.19:30. This will be fullfilled after the first resurrection af all the tribulation saints, in Rev.20:4-6, and then rule with Christ for 1,000 years, in Rev.4 and 6.

    He meant His Church will be CAUGHT UP to be with Him before the tribulation, according to 1 Thes.4:16-17 and 2 Thes.2:1-8] and that Israel will go through the tribulation [Dan.9:27]. When Israel finally recognizes Jesus as their Messiah, according to Zech.12:10 , they will then come into the same sheep fold with the Church and the two will become one fold, with Jesus being the one Shepherd, when He establishes His Millennial kingdom here on earth according to Rev.20:6.

    When the Church is Caught Up to be with the Lord in heaven, the antichrist is revealed and the tribulation begins, according to 2 Thes.2:3-4, 7-8; Dan.9:27 and Rev.6:2].

    The overview of the tribulation, begins with the first of the four riders, on the white horse, who is the antichrist, in the first of seven seals; after the six seals, before the seventh seal that contains the seven trumpet judgements begins in Rev.; God will send 144,000 consisting of 12,000 Israelites from each of twelve of their tribes, that He "redeems from the earth" according to Rev.14:3. Sealing them, and they become converted believers in Jesus Christ who will take the place of the Raptured Church, to preach the Eternal Gospel in their absence, to all those left on the earth, according to Rev.7:1-8. Whom God will send here from heaven [as He will His two witnesses of Rev.11].

    They were the righteous ones in OT Sheol when Jesus preached the gospel to them, according to 1 Pet.3:18-20. Then when He ascended into heaven, in Acts 1:9, He took all the righteous ones who came from OT Sheol with Him, as seen in Eph.4:7-10, fulfilling the prophecy in Ps.68:18. [During OT times, the spirits of the righteous dead went to Sheol, as did the wicked, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sin, according to Heb.10:3-4, Lk.16:19-23 and in Ps.49:14-15, until Jesus shed His blood and died on the cross, amplified by Paul in Rom.3:25-26.

    The efforts of their work as evangelists is then revealed in the parenthetic [preview] view of the Great Multitude seen in heaven, recorded in Rev.7:9-17, who represents all of those who will be saved during the tribulation, and who are also the martyrs who participate in the first resurrection of Rev.20:4-6. They are the tribulation saints and are the ones who will be left behind, when the Church is raptured, and do not belong to the Church, until after the 144,000 bring them to the Lord. The 144,000 do not belong to the Church or they would be raptured with the Church before the tribulation begins.

    When their work is finished, the 144,000 will be translated, and return to heaven, in Rev.14:1-5. When that happens, the earth will once again be without anyone to preach the Eternal Gospel. So God will commission an angel to do so in Rev.14:6-7.

    Therefore, the 144,000 are all converted Israelites who take the place of the Raptured Church to preach the Gospel to all those who will be left behind when Jesus comes to take His Church with Him to our Father in heaven, as previously address above, documented in Jn.14:2-4 and 28; 1Thes.4:13-17 and 2 Thes.2:1-8.


    Blessings,


    Quasar92
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  2. Forgiven4ever

    Forgiven4ever New Member

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  3. Forgiven4ever

    Forgiven4ever New Member

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    Thank you for your well written and informative answer. I had always wondered that myself.
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Rev 14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 



    Rom 16:5  Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ. 



    2Co_11:2  For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


    John described the 144,000 with the same language that Paul used to describe Christians.

    .
     
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  5. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are most welcome. It makes me happy when someone reds something I have written the Lord taught me, who also learned from it.

    Blessings.

    Quasar92
     
  6. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – the Church:

    2 Corinthians 1:21-22

    Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

    Ephesians 1:13

    In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

    Ephesians 4:30

    Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


    The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes, describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:

    Judah means “praise” (Gen 29:35)

    Reuben means “see, a Son” (Gen 29:32)

    Gad means “fortunate” (Gen 30:11)

    Asher means “happy” (Gen 30:13)

    Naphtali means “wrestling” (Gen 30:8)

    Manasseh means “forgetting” (Gen 41:51)

    Simeon means “heard” (Gen 29:33)

    Levi means “attached” (Gen 29:34)

    Issachar means “wages” (Gen 30:18)

    Zebulon means “dwelling” (Gen 30:20)

    Joseph means “He will add” (Gen 30:24)

    Benjamin means “Son of the right hand” (Gen 35:17–18)


    Also of significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.


    Is 144,000 literal or symbolic? While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful, e.g. 1 Kings 19:18. Their number is thus depicted as 12, symbolizing the faithful saints within the 12 tribes; times 12, a scriptural symbol of completeness; times 1000, which when used symbolically denotes a large quantity (Psalms 50:10; 91:7; 2 Peter 3:8).


    Revelation 14 continues the descriptions of the 144,000, further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and oneness of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile, consistent with other scripture:


    Galatians 3:28

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


    Ephesians 2:14

    For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…


    Additional numerical symbolism relating to the Church can be found in the 12 apostles representing saints of the NT era.


    No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000
     
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  7. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Excellent post, jgr.

    The 144,000 are all born again Christians, selected by Jesus out of the 'vast multitude', seen in Jerusalem in Revelation 14:1 and 2 Thessalonians 1:10
    They are all assigned to one of the twelve tribes, according to each individuals characteristics. Proved by Isaiah 66:21, where the Lord takes some of them be His priests and Levites.
     
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  8. saint2

    saint2 Regular Member Supporter

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    The 144,000 of Revelation 7 are Israelites from the tribes of Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Siimeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin. Notice, there's no tribe of Ephraim there

    The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are from the tribe of Ephraim whose seed became a multitude of nations - i.e. Gentiles (Genesis 48:19)


    I'm from the tribe of Ephraim. What tribe are the rest of you from?


    Jeremiah 31:9
    ...for I have become a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn


    Bob..
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Most of the 12 tribes were carried away by the Assyrians, long before the time of Christ.
    The people of those bloodlines then intermarried with others and those pure bloodlines were lost.


    In Romans 11:1 Paul was able to trace his lineage to the tribe of Benjamin.


    What DNA testing has proven that you are from the tribe of Ephraim?

    .
     
  10. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The 144,000 Israelite evangelists have nothing whatever to do with the Church, or they would have been raptured with the Church [prophetically speaking] BEFORE the tribulation begins. The disposition of their origin, redeemed from the earth [as OT righteous are described in Lk.16:19-25] ; redeemed by Jesus, when He went in the Spirit to Hell/Sheol, as recorded in 1 Pet.3:18-29; taken to heaven by Jesus when He ascended, according to Eph.4:7-10, confirming Ps.69:18. From where God will place them on earth just before the seventh seal that contains the trumpet judgments, in the same way He will place His two witnesses in Rev.11,

    God will place them on earth in place of the raptured/departed Church. The results of their efforts is the Great Multitude recorded in Rev.7:9-17, as I previously posted in the OP.


    Quasar92
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    So are you saying there will be a bodily resurrection of the dead for these 144,000, when God will place their souls back into a body made of mortal flesh and they will be placed back on this earth again during the tribulation period?

    I will have to confess that this is a new one for me. I have never heard this version before.


    Can you provide some scripture for this special resurrection from the dead ?

    .
     
  12. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Rev.14:1 "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

    2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

    3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

    4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

    5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

    6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"


    The above passage is about the 144,000 Israelite evangelists AFTER their mission on earth has been completed, and they have been TRANSLATED back to heaven. They are identified as virgins, as we all are immediately following our redemption. See my post #10 for more on this issue.


    Quasar02
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  13. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Read the OP where the Scripture supporting what I have written is found.


    Quasar92
     
  14. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Neither is Dan in the listings of the 12 tribes of Israel in Rev.7. Those listed in Rev.14 are the very sake as the ones in Rev.7.


    Quasar92
     
  15. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks keras.
     
  16. saint2

    saint2 Regular Member Supporter

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    Hi BABerean2

    Ezekiel 37:11
    Then he said to me, “Mortal, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are cut off completely.’ 12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord God: I am going to open your graves, and bring you up from your graves, O my people; and I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 And you shall know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves, and bring you up from your graves, O my people. 14 I will put my spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you on your own soil; then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken and will act, says the Lord.”

    Bob..
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  17. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Great Multitude are those who will be saved DURING the coming tribulation. They are all from among those who will be LEFT BEHIND when the Church is CAUGHT UP to be with the Lord forever, in 1 Thess.4:16-17, BEFORE the tribulation begins, recorded in 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

    The Great Multitude in Rev.7:9-17 is a parenthetic passage of the same tribulation martyrs/saints recorded in Rev20:4, t the first resurrection, that follows Jesus second coming to the erth WITH His Church, from their marriage in heaven, as recoded in Rev.19:7-8 and 14.

    If the Great Multitude were born again Christians, they would be raptured when the Church DEPARTS BEFORE the tribulation begins. They DO NOT belong to the DEPARTED Church, nd will pay for their testimony of Jesus during the tribultion, with heir lives.


    Quasar92
     
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  18. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    It sounds like the resurrection of the dead described by Christ in John 5:27-30.

    The following text confirms it.

    Eze 37:26  Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 
    (The "everlasting covenant" is found in Hebrews 13:20. Christ is now the "sanctuary".)


    Eze 37:27  My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. (He is the "tabernacle", based on John 2:19-21.)

    Eze 37:28  The nations also will know that I, the LORD, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore." ' "
    (How long is "forevermore" ?) 


    .
     
  19. saint2

    saint2 Regular Member Supporter

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    Yes, I agree

    John 5:27
    and he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not be astonished at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

    These Scriptures speak of Judgment Day

    Acts 10:42
    He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one ordained by God as judge of the living and the dead.

    Acts 24:15
    I have a hope in God—a hope that they themselves also accept—that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

    Matthew 12:41
    The people of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and see, something greater than Jonah is here! 42 The queen of the South will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to listen to the wisdom of Solomon, and see, something greater than Solomon is here!
     
  20. saint2

    saint2 Regular Member Supporter

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    Another interesting Judgment Day passage

    Ezekiel 16:53
    I will restore their fortunes, the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes along with theirs, 54 in order that you may bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all that you have done, becoming a consolation to them. 55 As for your sisters, Sodom and her daughters shall return to their former state, Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former state, and you and your daughters shall return to your former state.
     
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