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Who was Paul?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Cephas, Jul 6, 2003.

  1. A heretic according to Deuteronomy 13

  2. A brother according to Peter in 2Peter 3

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  1. Cephas

    Cephas New Member

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    Was and is he satans greatest tool of deception?

    Surely Jesus cannot be blamed for the heretical teaching of lawlessness, for he himself said;

    Matthew 5:17-20
    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Nor can any of the Apostles or early disciples as they ALL walked orderly according to the law of God, just as Jesus himself did;

    Acts 21:17-24

    17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

    What exactly happened in Acts 21?

    Paul, upon returning to the Jerusalem fellowship, submits himself to the authority and eldership of BELIEVERS, not pharisees as I have seen some people falsely teach.

    His teachings then come into question pertaining to the "law". He is given the oppurtunity there and then amongst believers to declare the law is dead. Yet he does not. He humbles himself and fulfills a vow found in the "law" and completes it fully to prove that he, just as they WALKED ORDERLY in subjection to the "laws" of God.

    You cannot say he was just acting Jewish amongst the Jews to gain them, as he states in;

    1Corinthians 9:20
    20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law.

    He had no one to gain amongst the ELDERS of the church. Who also walked in accordance to the "law", just as Jesus did.

    Was he a double-minded man unstable in all of his ways?

    James 1:8
    8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

    Certainly when taken at face value that is exactly what he appears to be. How else can his teachings be explained? One verse he is praising the law the next he is seemingly ascribing blasphemous words to the very teachings of God himself.

    Romans 7:12
    Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

    Romans 7:14
    For we know that the law is spiritual

    Romans 7:16
    If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

    Romans 13:10
    Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    1Timothy 1:8
    But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully

    I won't even go into the verses some ascribe to Paul teaching as what the "law" of God has become.

    Some of the verbiage used is frightening.
    Death/weak/beggarly/bondage/slavery

    Paul had better hope that is not what he was saying come the day.

    Or was he just as Peter said he was? A brother who's teachings are hard to understand.

    2Peter 3:15-16
    15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    Deuteronomy 13:1-5
    1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

    You see, according to the word of God himself, his commandments cannot be changed by Paul, or anyone other than himself. So Paul was either a heretic or a brother who's teachings are hard to understand. There is no middle ground.
     
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  2. sbbqb7n16

    sbbqb7n16 Veteran - Blue Bible Dude

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    But Jesus never destroyed the law... nor is it destroyed this day. It has just been fulfilled.

    Paul understood this just fine, for since the law has then been fulfilled and a New Covenant established we who join under the New Covenant are no longer required to do that which was required under the Old. Read Hebrews about all that. It goes a lot deeper into it all than I can, but it's cool beans :)

    Pretty much Paul showed that although the law was good, it brought death when someone failed to keep it. Jesus kept the law perfectly, and thus the law proved beneficial in identifying the Messiah.

    However with the Messiah came the New Covenant we are under today wherein the only law is to believe in Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent as a payment for all transgresses acquired while under the prior Covenant. So therefore the Law established the requirements of the Old Covenant (which by the way if you are able to meet all of it's requirements will yield it's same promises) but I'd much rather have the New and Improved one.

    I say it again.... read Hebrews.... muy bueno!!!
     
  3. sbbqb7n16

    sbbqb7n16 Veteran - Blue Bible Dude

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    Are you saying that Paul calls us to follow after a false God in Jesus Christ? you know that's not true....
     
  4. Cephas

    Cephas New Member

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    >>It has just been fulfilled.<<

    So, heaven and earth has passed? Christ reigns from his throne in the millenial kingdom? There is a new temple in the earthly Jerusalem where the sacrifices are set in place once again?

    All of that, and more must come to pass before ALL of the law and prophets are fulfilled.

    >>...it brought death when someone failed to keep it.<<

    Indeed it did. Hence the need for Gods grace (salvation was always through grace, even before Yeshua came. See David as only one example of Gods grace) to be made manifest through Jesus Christ. Jesus shows us in John 8 EXACTLY what he has come to set us free from;

    John 8

    3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

    (Pharisees and Sadduccess scatter!)

    10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

    You see, Jesus illustrates his forthcoming plan of salvation right then and there. He literally became her savior. For her transgression of the law she should have received the death sentence. He saved her from the curse of the law, which is not the law its self, but death for the transgression of it.
    His final words to her are "...go, and sin no more."

    And what is sin? Let us consult the Bible for it's definition;

    1John 3:4

    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    >>I say it again.... read Hebrews...<<

    I have my friend. Do you have specific verses to discuss?

    >>Are you saying that Paul calls us to follow after a false God in Jesus Christ? you know that's not true...<<

    No.

    I'm saying if the church rooted in Rome is correct in interpreting Paul, than it very much appears that he has done exactly what God said some would do in order that God may test them.

    There is no evidence anywhere that Yeshua came to annul or change the law. If he did, how could he be the messiah in light of Deuteronomy 13? Is God a liar? A big practical joker perhaps?

    None of the other new testament authors say we are free from the law, in fact they all followed the law just as Yeshua did, acts 21 gives more than enough proof of that.

    Yeshua is the messiah.

    That being said, I have another question to propose friends, can you prove that Yeshua is the messiah of God? Most Christians cannot.

    Should we not as believers know why we put our faith in him?
     
  5. nChrist

    nChrist AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace Through Faith Supporter

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    Jesus didn't come into the world to condemn the world, but that the world, through him, might be saved. Jesus lived a Holy life without sin and performed miracles in the presence of multitudes. He was crucified and died, but he arose from the dead and ascended back to heaven.

    Jesus was God's perfect gift, the suffering of HIS SON on the cross in payment for all who would believe and accept HIM as their personal Lord and Saviour. This is the One Gospel, the Gospel of the Grace of God, a mystery not known to men of other ages. The Holy Spirit is revealed and the proof of the Holy Trinity is made known (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit).

    There is no contradiction, simply a New Covenant, the Gospel of God's Grace.

    One Gospel - The Good News!
    http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/gospel.html
     
  6. sbbqb7n16

    sbbqb7n16 Veteran - Blue Bible Dude

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    Matt*5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

    John*19:30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.


    Are you saying that Jesus didn't do what He said He did?
    Gal*5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

    1 Tim*1:8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
    476 1 Tim*1:9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers

    Gal*3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."
    448 Gal*3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
    449 Gal*3:12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."
    450 Gal*3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--


    It appears that Paul felt the same way about what happened to the Law (or the curse thereof) that you do... are you also a false prophet then?

    Mainly stuff like chapters 8-10 wherein the author (whom many also thought was Paul... or Apollos... anyways) deals with the institution of a New Covenant nulifying the Old.

    Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
    Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.


    Which leads to v13:

    Heb*8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

    Of course not, for Christ calls us to follow the same God of Deut. 13. But rather Christ fulfills all the prophecys given for God's way of instituting the New Covenant of grace that the same God of Deut. 13 wanted to institute as found in the prophets.

    Can I? Yes. Can everyone... no. Should we be able to... yes.
     
  7. Cephas

    Cephas New Member

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    >>Are you saying that Jesus didn't do what He said He did?<<

    Are you saying that he said something that he never said?

    >>It appears that Paul felt the same way about what happened to the Law (or the curse thereof) that you do... are you also a false prophet then?<<

    Am I telling people to turn away from the teachings of God? Not at all. Nor do I believe Paul is, I believe man has misinterpreted him for a very long time "...unto his own destruction."

    >>Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
    Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.<<

    I see. So now man would twist Pauls words and make him a judge of the teachings of God? Who is Paul to find fault with the teachings of God?

    Either Paul has been misinterpreted, or he is a heretic.

    >>Of course not, for Christ calls us to follow the same God of Deut. 13. But rather Christ fulfills all the prophecys given for God's way of instituting the New Covenant of grace that the same God of Deut. 13 wanted to institute as found in the prophets.<<

    Grace from God is not a new concept, see David for only one example of Gods awesome grace. Nor is the command to love the lord God with all of thy being, nor is the command to love thy neighbor as thyself. They are all found in the Torah and echoed by Yeshua in the new testament.

    The Torah is a way of life for the redeemed community, not a means of salvation for the lost.

    Re 12:17 -
    And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Re 14:12 -
    Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus .

    I don't see anything about the Doctrines of Paul, nor do I see Jesus saying many of the things (most of) christianity teaches today, that flat out ignore what God has said.
     
  8. sbbqb7n16

    sbbqb7n16 Veteran - Blue Bible Dude

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    What do you mean by "misinterpreted"?
     
  9. nChrist

    nChrist AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace Through Faith Supporter

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  10. Cephas

    Cephas New Member

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    >>It is plain to see the source of your confusion. It does not appear that you recognize Jesus as being very God. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but through JESUS. This appears to be the mystery that you don't understand.<<

    Show me where I said salvation comes by any means other than Jesus. If you cannot, head back to the drawing board. Your assumptions are patently false.

    >>Jesus paid it all and released man from the bondage of the Law.<<

    Gods teachings were bondage? I see... Perhaps you should read psalm 119 and see what David had to say about the Torah. None of it appears to be anything resembling bondage or anything Gods people would desire to be "free" from...

    Anyway, exactly where did Jesus say the Torah is to be done away with? Remembering what it is he said man is to live by in Matthew 4:4;

    But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    Matthew 23:1-12

    1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not .

    Matthew 5:17-20

    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Once again, the Torah is not for salvation nor has it ever been. It is a way of life instituted by God for his people.

    Yeshua set us free from the curse of the law, the curse being death, not the law its self.

    He demonstrated that very principle in John 8:3-11

    3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her . 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

    "...go, and sin no more."

    And what exactly is sin?

    1John 3:4-
    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    So then, now that we know what sin is in it's biblical context, shall we continue to transgress the law that God instituted, and that the early believers as well as Yeshua himself walked in?

    Peace
     
  11. nChrist

    nChrist AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace Through Faith Supporter

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  12. Cephas

    Cephas New Member

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    >>Here's a little thinking exercise for you. Is keeping the Sabbath part of the Law?<<

    The Sabbath is part of the Torah, indeed. The Sabbath that God wrote on the tablets with his very finger, the Sabbath he declared to be FOREVER observed.

    You know, the commandment we think God was winking about when he wrote it on the tablet and ordained it a day to be remembered and kept holy FOREVER.

    >>If so, Did Jesus observe the Sabbath<<

    Indeed he did. He only broke mans additions to the word of God concerning the Sabbath. He never broke the Sabbath as ordained by God to be observed FOREVER.

    And if he did not, then Christianity is a lost cause as he is called a spotless, guiltless sacrifice.

    One could not trample the Sabbath and be called blameless before God.

    For remember what sin is, it is the transgression of the law.

    >>and what did HE say about it?<<

    In the book of Mark, we read of an occasion where the disciples of the Messiah went through a wheat field, plucking kernels of wheat to eat. The Pharisees rebuked them for doing an act which they considered a violation of the Sabbath, since they had added many do's and don'ts to the Sabbath commandment, making it a yoke of bondage and a legalistic burden.

    Yeshua, in reply to their accusation, declared, point-blank, "The Sabbath was MADE FOR MAN" -- that is, ALL MANKIND. He went on, "and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore, the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27-28).

    Here is plain evidence that the Sabbath is to be kept by all mankind -- it was MADE, or created, for ALL of us to observe. What could be plainer? Read it again. And Yeshua went on, saying HE was the "LORD of the Sabbath" -- that he is in charge of the Sabbath, he is its Master, Lord, Ruler, and "Owner." It belongs to HIM. Since he has authority over the Sabbath day, and says it was made for "MAN," then shouldn't we out of respect for him observe and honor and uphold his Sabbath day?

    Yeshua doesn't say he is "Lord" of any other day of the week -- not the first day of the week, not the second, not the third, fourth, fifth, or sixth. But He does say He is "Lord of the SABBATH!" Therefore, let us observe his Sabbath -- since he is also our Lord!

    But we Christians say, no thanks lord. I prefer sunday, the day Constantine ordained as the day of true worship.

    ~ "They [Roman Catholics] refer to the Sabath Day, as having been changed into the L-rd's Day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath Day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten commandments!"

    Augsburg Confession of Faith,art. 28;written by Melanchthon and approved by Martin Luther, 1530; as published in The Book of Concord of the Evangelical Lutheran ChurchHenry Jacobs, editor (1911), p.63
     
  13. nChrist

    nChrist AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace Through Faith Supporter

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    That's a fairly good start. Let's continue and see where it takes us.

    Who was the Old Covenant, the Law, with? In other words, who were the parties of the Old Covenant?

    Did Jesus come into the world to condemn the world under the Law? If not, what was his purpose?
     
  14. Cephas

    Cephas New Member

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    >>Who was the Old Covenant, the Law with? In other words, who were the parties of the Old Covenant?<<

    The people of Israel (Jacob) and any foreigner who would join himself with them to serve the one true God.

    Isaiah 56:3, 6-8
    {3} Neither let the son of the foreigner, that has joined himself to YHVH, speak, saying, YHVH has utterly separated me from His people...{6} Also the sons of the foreigner, that join themselves to YHVH, to serve him, and to love the name of YHVH, to be his servants, every one who keeps the sabbath from polluting it, and takes hold of My covenant, {7} even those I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon My altar, for My house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. {8} Adonai YHVH who gathers the outcasts of Israel says, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered to him.

    >>Did Jesus come into the world to condemn the world under the Law?<<

    No. But there is still a standard. That standard is the law of God. Once again I say, once we know what sin is, do we continue to play ignorant and ignore what the very Word says?

    1John 3:4-
    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Romans 6:1-23
    1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid.

    >>If not, what was his purpose?<<

    That none should perish. Not even the Gentiles who (for the vast majority) before messiah had nothing to do with the God of Israel.

    Yet, we are to be GRAFTED IN. Not the other way around.

    Romans 11:16-19; 21-27

    {16} For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. {17} And if some of the branches be broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them you partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree. {18} Boast not against the branches. But if you boast [remember], you do not bear the root, but the root bears you.
    {21} For if Elohim spared not the natural branches, be careful, in case He also does not spare you. {22} Behold therefore the goodness and severity of Elohim, on those who fell, severity, but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness, otherwise you also will be cut off. {23} And they [natural branches] also, if they do not stay in unbelief, shall be grafted in, for Elohim is able to graft them in again. {24} For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more shall these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? {25} For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, in case you should become wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. {26} And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away unrighteousness from Jacob. {27} For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


    ~The Olive Tree is Israel. The root is Elohim and Mashiach. The grafted in wild olive branches are Messianic Gentiles. As long as they remain in Israel, without being arrogant of their position, they are safe and receive nourishment from the root. It is very important for Messianic Gentiles to see themselves, humbly and thankfully, as a part of Israel. Of the natural branches, the Jewish people, some have been broken off from the nurishment of the root, but not all, and Elohim will gladly graft back again the ones broken off.
    Those who say they believe in Israel's Messiah, yet do not want to be a part of Israel (continue in His goodness), are in danger of being cast off. For this reason we are seeing the return of the Jewish people to their own Olive Tree of Israel.

    Also, to be broken off requires the knowledgeable act of unbelief. The natural branches who have not known or heard of the true Messiah of Israel are not broken off. Most Jewish people today have not yet heard about their Jewish Messiah Yeshua in truth. Rejection of a Catholic or Baptist Jesus is NOT rejection of the true nature of Israel's Messiah. Therefore, most Jewish people remain in the covenant promises, even though partially blinded. Gentile Beleivers who do not realize this are arrogant against them, and themselves are partially blinded. Once the fulness of the Gentiles come into Israel the blindness on all parts will lift, then all of Israel, Jews and non-Jews, will be saved together, by the Deliverer, Yeshua. He is the very one who has turned away unrighteousness from Jacob, not from the world at large. The truly righteous person must accept their covenant place in Jacob, through Messiah, which is confirmed through His removal of their sin.

    -MBI.

    Where is the root of Christianity today? Rome.

    Hence the confusion amongst Christianity, Catholocism and Protestants alike. We have left the roots of our faith and replaced them with Roman catholic teachings, traditions and doctrines.

    Doctrines of man have replaced the teachings of God.
     
  15. nChrist

    nChrist AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace Through Faith Supporter

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    So, the Old Covenant is with the Jews, not the Gentiles. Jesus came unto his own, and his own received him not. So, the Gospel of the Grace of God was offered to the Gentiles.

    The crucifixion of Jesus ended the Old Covenant, and the Law of Moses was replaced by the Laws of Jesus. The biggest event of the Holy Bible and the history of mankind is the crucifixion of Jesus and HIM arising from the dead to be the Lord and Saviour of all who will believe in HIM and accept HIM as the LORD of their lives. Everything changed from that moment on, and the list is staggering.

    Just a few to make you think:
    1. The Holy Spirit was given as a comforter and guide. The study of this subject, ALONE, could take years and only scratch the surface of learning and meaning.
    2. Man no longer had to seek a High Priest to pray to his Heavenly Father. The vanity, additions, and subtractions of man were made of little importance. All of God's children could approach the throne of Grace and pray at any time and any place.
    3. The blood of Jesus was forgiveness of sins forever for God's children instead of regular blood sacrifices. A perfect gift and sacrifice had been made for all eternity. The complete depth and meaning of Christ's life, crucifixion, burial, and resurrection is now the ONE GOSPEL, the Gospel of the Grace of God. There is no other GOSPEL. This is the EVERLASTING GOOD NEWS!
     
  16. nChrist

    nChrist AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace Through Faith Supporter

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    I really don't know what you are trying to say. There are many sweet Christians in many denominations, and their roots are in Christ. The Church which is the Body of Christ doesn't have an earthly address or bear the label of man's denominations. If you are suggesting that one must and can live under the Law and seek salvation by good works and personal righteousness, I feel sorry for you.
     
  17. Cephas

    Cephas New Member

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    >>If you are suggesting that one must and can live under the Law and seek salvation by good works and personal righteousness, I feel sorry for you.<<

    ...In messiah, one is not under the law.

    One is simply obedient to the word of God, which he said is FOREVER.

    ...For there is none righteous, no not one.

    ...To believe that the "law" as christians calls it brings salvation, is to deny the work of Yeshua.

    >>There are many sweet Christians in many denominations,<<

    I know there are. I've been a Christian for 20 yrs. It does not erase the fact that many teachings of the "church" today, flat out make God a liar...

    >>and their roots are in Christ.<<

    A careful look of history will show that christianity today, far more resembles the church out of Rome than the Way Yeshua and the first believers walked in.

    Peter and the apostles were not running around after Yeshua died stuffing their faces with pork because they were suddenly free from the burdensome law. You can take my word for it.

    >>I really don't know what you are trying to say.<<

    Simply what the Word says.

    1John 3:4-
    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Romans 6:1-23
    1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid.

    Peace.
     
  18. nChrist

    nChrist AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace Through Faith Supporter

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    I don't believe it is factual to make a blanket statement that Christianity resembles the old church of Rome. However, I'm sure that some do. I have attended the same church for most of my life, so I'm not familiar with all of the various doctrines and beliefs of various denominations and faiths. We probably agree on much and would be brothers in Christ.
     
  19. GJG

    GJG Member

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    Hey 357, nice tag!
     
  20. Bible Believer

    Bible Believer Member

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    Revelation 19:11-15 And I saw a great white throne,......the dead, small and great, stand before God;....and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, ----> according to their works.<------ .....and they were judged every man according to their works........whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    God is fair. He will judge us according to our works. But, this following verse from the Book of James explains why the great white throne judgement is something I would never want to face. James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Sounds pretty serious. I for one would never want to face God under my own merits for I would surely fail.
     
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