Who then can be saved?

[BNR32FAN]

I have already explained why your interpretation of those verse doesn't add up and it can only make sense if God contradicts Himself

Again you never explained what the verses do mean. What does it mean that the one who endures to the end will be saved? All you do is say that’s not what it means then you don’t explain what it does mean.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you haven't learned about the Bible doctrine of "irresistible grace", then your denominational teacher, leader, priest or whoever taught you theology has obviously failed you.

It's quite sad to see shepherds hiding the truth of the gospel from their flock.

The first thing I would like to tech you is that the Bible doesn't spell everything out for you in elementary terms. Sometime you actually need to connect the dots to see the picture.

Here's a few verses to help you connect the dots.

John 6:44, which states no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them, and Ephesians 2:8-9, which says salvation is a gift of God, not by human will. Other key verses include Romans 8:30, which shows that God's calling leads to glorification, and Acts 16:14, where the Lord opens the heart of Lydia to listen to Paul.

Do you really believe that men are more powerful than God????, do you really believe that men can stop God from doing what He wants to do. News flash, that';s exactly what your suggesting here.

I don’t have anyone teaching me anything about the Bible. I study the Bible for myself. The last church I attended I left years ago because I realized that their theology was incorrect. And I don’t do commentaries or listen to preachers online. I do my own study, I don’t rely on someone else telling me what the Bible does or doesn’t teach. I do occasionally like to watch debate videos to get opposing views on certain topics but that’s about the extent of how I get advice from other people.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you haven't learned about the Bible doctrine of "irresistible grace", then your denominational teacher, leader, priest or whoever taught you theology has obviously failed you.

It's quite sad to see shepherds hiding the truth of the gospel from their flock.

The first thing I would like to tech you is that the Bible doesn't spell everything out for you in elementary terms. Sometime you actually need to connect the dots to see the picture.

Here's a few verses to help you connect the dots.

John 6:44, which states no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them, and Ephesians 2:8-9, which says salvation is a gift of God, not by human will. Other key verses include Romans 8:30, which shows that God's calling leads to glorification, and Acts 16:14, where the Lord opens the heart of Lydia to listen to Paul.

Do you really believe that men are more powerful than God????, do you really believe that men can stop God from doing what He wants to do. News flash, that';s exactly what you’re suggesting here.

And FYI Lydia was already a follower of God before she met Paul.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why don't you remove your blinders and look at the surrounding context of the verse before you make silly unbiblical assumptions.
John 6:44 states, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day"
This verse confirms the doctrine of irresistible grace, it emphasizes that God's drawing is not optional but an effectual work that draws the elect to Christ. This means that the Father chooses whom to draw, and those whom He draws will certainly come to Him and be raised on the last day.

This verse doesn't deal with the reprobates, who followed Jesus around to get a free feed of fishes and loaves.

If you want to examine the context of how they’re actually drawn to Christ you need to include verse 45.

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6‬:‭44‬-‭45‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Everyone who has heard and learned from The Father. This means everyone who believes the writings of the prophets in the Old Testament. Those are the people who are being drawn by The Father.

 

[fhansen]

I never knew that God is into traditions, do tell me about it. I've never heard it before. This will be good

It was meamt as a figure of speech, to oppose "traditions of men". But even so, yes, God has His traditions, His revealed will, The Greek word for traditions is used in both senses in the bible, as teachings of men, and as teachings/revelation of Christ.

 

[fhansen]

Do you really believe that men are more powerful than God????, do you really believe that men can stop God from doing what He wants to do. News flash, that';s exactly what your suggesting here.

No, I'm suggesting that
1) Sin would be impossible without human freedom
2) God so values the freedom He gave man to begin with that He won't override it.
God desires that we use our freedom for good, not evil, to embrace and choose the good He's shown us, to embrace and choose love to put it in the most correct terms. He's cultivating people who love and if He just wanted some kind of robot who can't do otherwise, well, that wouldn’t be love at all-and He could’ve done something like that at the beginning, avoiding all the pain and suffering and victimization this world has known. Instead, we have a world of hardship and strife, of sin and evil, where we might learn something of benefit: to hate evil, to run from it and to the ultimate Good who is God when He calls and beckons:

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matt 11:28-30

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, you are mistaken. You have bundled together, the elect of God with devils. Both believe that God exists and that Jesus died for the elect, but the demons believe and tremble because they don't have saving faith.
They have the same faith as religious people, who have placed their faith in the "saved by works" version of the gospel and not the (saved by grace) gospel of the Lord Jesus.

What does this have to do with 1 Corinthians 2 & 3? Are you suggesting that the Corinthians Paul is addressing in chapter 3 aren’t true believers? I’m not bundling anyone together I’m only talking about one particular group, the group of people Paul was addressing in 1 Corinthians 3. Paul specifically said that these people had the Holy Spirit in them and that they were holy in that very same chapter.

“Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

But of course you’ll ignore that to because that’s what you do whenever the scriptures contradict your theology. The fact is that Paul just told them that they are NOT SPIRITUALLY APPRAISED EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT. You can’t accept that and maintain your theology so those facts just get swept under the rug as if they don’t exist so that you can hold on to your theology that takes precedence over what the scriptures actually say.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Do you really believe that men are more powerful than God????, do you really believe that men can stop God from doing what He wants to do. News flash, that';s exactly what your suggesting here.

And this brings us right back to Genesis 6:5 where God obviously didn’t want man to be evil. He grieved in His heart that man was so evil. But I know your position on this, this is just a mystery that no one can explain. Except the vast majority of Christianity has no problem explaining it because it doesn’t conflict with their theology.

 

[contratodo]

of these verses are useless trash and foolishness to those whom God did not elect, before He created the world. So only the elect will believe them, when they hear them, the rest will remain in their condemned state. They have no hope of salvation at all

God is not evil. Commanding someone to do what they cannot do is defined as evil in Exodus chapter 5. When pharaoh commanded Israel to gather their own straw and yet make the same amount of brick, that was called evil by Moses because they were asked to do an impossible task.

"....now, God commands all men everywhere to repent.... " Acts 17:22-31. Verse 31 being the key verse.

Paul said, in Athens Greece, on Mars hill, that God now commands all men everywhere to repent.

That is an evil thing to command, according to scripture, if all men everywhere can not possibly repent.

God is not evil, He has made a way for all men everywhere to repent via the death and resurrection of His Son, therefore repentance, for every man, begins at belief that Christ died and rose from the dead.

 

[BNR32FAN]

God is not evil. Commanding someone to do what they cannot do is defined as evil in Exodus chapter 5. When pharaoh commanded Israel to gather their own straw and yet make the same amount of brick, that was called evil by Moses because they were asked to do an impossible task.

"....now, God commands all men everywhere to repent.... " Acts 17:22-31. Verse 31 being the key verse.

Paul said, in Athens Greece, on Mars hill, that God now commands all men everywhere to repent.

That is an evil thing to command, according to scripture, if all men everywhere can not possibly repent.

God is not evil, He has made a way for all men everywhere to repent via the death and resurrection of His Son, therefore repentance, for every man, begins at belief that Christ died and rose from the dead.

This is typically where Calvinist’s idea of God’s sovereignty goes right out the window when they try to explain man’s refusal to repent. Either that or they’ll usually go with God is just no matter what He decides to do regardless of whether it actually coincides with the definition of the word just.

 

[BNR32FAN]

God is not evil. Commanding someone to do what they cannot do is defined as evil in Exodus chapter 5. When pharaoh commanded Israel to gather their own straw and yet make the same amount of brick, that was called evil by Moses because they were asked to do an impossible task.

"....now, God commands all men everywhere to repent.... " Acts 17:22-31. Verse 31 being the key verse.

Paul said, in Athens Greece, on Mars hill, that God now commands all men everywhere to repent.

That is an evil thing to command, according to scripture, if all men everywhere can not possibly repent.

God is not evil, He has made a way for all men everywhere to repent via the death and resurrection of His Son, therefore repentance, for every man, begins at belief that Christ died and rose from the dead.

Personally I think Ezekiel 31:11 is a better example because it specifically refers to what God wants the wicked to do. I’m sure we all know what they do with verses that say all men. But I do like your example of Pharaoh, that’s a really strong point.

 

[RDKirk]

God is not evil. Commanding someone to do what they cannot do is defined as evil in Exodus chapter 5. When pharaoh commanded Israel to gather their own straw and yet make the same amount of brick, that was called evil by Moses because they were asked to do an impossible task.

"....now, God commands all men everywhere to repent.... " Acts 17:22-31. Verse 31 being the key verse.

Paul said, in Athens Greece, on Mars hill, that God now commands all men everywhere to repent.

That is an evil thing to command, according to scripture, if all men everywhere can not possibly repent.

God is not evil, He has made a way for all men everywhere to repent via the death and resurrection of His Son, therefore repentance, for every man, begins at belief that Christ died and rose from the dead.

"All men" in this verse means "men from all nations," not "every particular man on earth." The single most significant thing about Paul's mission, which he himself stated, is that he went beyond Judea.

I'm not Calvinist, but you're construing something here that Paul did not mean.

 

[Dan1988]

Again you never explained what the verses do mean. What does it mean that the one who endures to the end will be saved? All you do is say that’s not what it means then you don’t explain what it does mean.

According to the Holy Bible (Gods Word) "only those who are indwelt and led by the Holy Spirit" enfure to the end. In other words 'the elect of God". Now how hard was that to understand, that's what the gospel of the Lord Jesus is all about.

I get the sense that you don't believe the gospel of the Lord Jesus, and you prefer the Jacobs Arminius version

 

[Dan1988]

I don’t have anyone teaching me anything about the Bible. I study the Bible for myself. The last church I attended I left years ago because I realized that their theology was incorrect. And I don’t do commentaries or listen to preachers online. I do my own study, I don’t rely on someone else telling me what the Bible does or doesn’t teach. I do occasionally like to watch debate videos to get opposing views on certain topics but that’s about the extent of how I get advice from other people.

Thank you for finally revealing that. It explains everything, God appointed Shepherds to lead and watch over Sheep like myself.

The fact that you are on your own suggests that you're not a member of the Body of Christ (the Church). You can't claim to be a Christian if you are not joined to the Body of Christ.

You have taken the law into your own hands, so you will answer to God for everything you believe and do. If my Shepherd teaches me false doctrine, then he will have to answer to God.

Those who leave the safety of the flock, always become victims of the hungry lion (Satan), who roams around seeking to devour the lost and rebellious sheep.

 

[Dan1988]

And FYI Lydia was already a follower of God before she met Paul.

That's right, Paul couldn't save anyone. How can a sinner save a sinner, answer Impossible. Only God saves

 

[Dan1988]

If you want to examine the context of how they’re actually drawn to Christ you need to include verse 45.

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6‬:‭44‬-‭45‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Everyone who has heard and learned from The Father. This means everyone who believes the writings of the prophets in the Old Testament. Those are the people who are being drawn by The Father.

Wrong again, God only draws His elect to Christ.
It has nothing to do with the "writings of the prophets". Most of the elect of God never read any of the writings of the prophets. Do a bit of research before you make nonsensical claims.

 

[Dan1988]

It was meamt as a figure of speech, to oppose "traditions of men". But even so, yes, God has His traditions, His revealed will, The Greek word for traditions is used in both senses in the bible, as teachings of men, and as teachings/revelation of Christ.

There's only one correct interpretation for every word in the Bible. It's always depends on the surrounding context. It's not wise to complicate it by mixing the different senses together, as it always leads to confusion.
God is not the Author of confusion.

 

[Dan1988]

No, I'm suggesting that
1) Sin would be impossible without human freedom
2) God so values the freedom He gave man to begin with that He won't override it.
God desires that we use our freedom for good, not evil, to embrace and choose the good He's shown us, to embrace and choose love to put it in the most correct terms. He's cultivating people who love and if He just wanted some kind of robot who can't do otherwise, well, that wouldn’t be love at all-and He could’ve done something like that at the beginning, avoiding all the pain and suffering and victimization this world has known. Instead, we have a world of hardship and strife, of sin and evil, where we might learn something of benefit: to hate evil, to run from it and to the ultimate Good who is God when He calls and beckons:

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matt 11:28-30

That may sound like a wonderful philosophy, to those who don't know that truth. But to those of us who do know the truth, it's nothing more than a vein attempt to offer false hope, because none of it is true.

Even the verses you chose, expose your unbiblical views.

You will never find anything in the bible to support your private opinion 1) Sin would be impossible without human freedom.

You will never find anything in the bible to support your private opinion that 2) God so values the freedom He gave man to begin with that He won't override it. No such nonsense exists in the Bible.

God never said that He desires that we use our freedom for good, not evil, to embrace and choose the good He's shown us, to embrace and choose love to put it in the most correct terms. And no such nonsense exists in the Bible.

This world is beautiful, everything is exactly as God predestined it to be. He is in full control of every single thing in the universe. From the smallest thing to the biggest things, nothing happens apart from His will.

You mention Matt, 11:28-30 as if it was some kind of an offer of a better lifestyle or blessings, but it's nothing like that at all, it was hate speech and it got Him tortured, spat, His beard was ripped out and the flesh on His back was hanging of from being whipped before He was crucified and murdered. The same thing would happen if he came back today and tried that again, He is hated by religious people, today more then ever before.

 

[Dan1988]

What does this have to do with 1 Corinthians 2 & 3? Are you suggesting that the Corinthians Paul is addressing in chapter 3 aren’t true believers? I’m not bundling anyone together I’m only talking about one particular group, the group of people Paul was addressing in 1 Corinthians 3. Paul specifically said that these people had the Holy Spirit in them and that they were holy in that very same chapter.

“Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

But of course you’ll ignore that to because that’s what you do whenever the scriptures contradict your theology. The fact is that Paul just told them that they are NOT SPIRITUALLY APPRAISED EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT. You can’t accept that and maintain your theology so those facts just get swept under the rug as if they don’t exist so that you can hold on to your theology that takes precedence over what the scriptures actually say.

That's more twisted theology nonsense.
Who is "If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬-‭17" referring to. Let e guess, you believe that it's referring to those who are born again believers, who are indwelt and led by the Holy Spirt.

You believe that the Holy Spirit leads some born again believers to destroy their temple, and that's very sad and blasphemous on your part. ‬

 

[Dan1988]

And this brings us right back to Genesis 6:5 where God obviously didn’t want man to be evil. He grieved in His heart that man was so evil. But I know your position on this, this is just a mystery that no one can explain. Except the vast majority of Christianity has no problem explaining it because it doesn’t conflict with their theology.

I thought I already cleared this up for you. I told you that God is not the Author of evil, but He does allow evil doers to do their wicked work for a time. Then He torments them is the lake of fire for all eternity, so God sill wins.
They do their thing for a short time but God does His thing forever, that's a bargain. I love it, just as I love everything else that God does.