I'm telling you I do know them offline, so I am positive what I am saying, it's my overall experience, and just to teach OSAS is a huge problem even if they were perfect in every other way.
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Who loses their Salvation, and for "what" do they lose it for...?
- Thread starter Neogaia777
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I'm telling you I do know them offline, so I am positive what I am saying, it's my overall experience, and just to teach OSAS is a huge problem even if they were perfect in every other way.
aiki
Regular Member
No one who is truly saved ever loses their salvation. Salvation, you see, isn't found in the character of a person's conduct but in Christ. He is Salvation. One does not obtain him as Saviour, as one's salvation, by living right, but by faith in him. Now, that faith - if it is a saving faith - will inevitably result in a changed life, a life that reflects the Person of Christ, but that changed life is not the means of one's salvation but merely its effect.
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Maybe... but what, or which, is Biblically correct...?
And "perfect in what way"...? And who are you talking about...?
God Bless!
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Gods not mad
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john 15
verse 2- the words taketh away in greek are translated to airo which means to raise,take up,lift.
verse 3- we are clean by him his words not our actions.
verse 4- make your dwelling place in me as a branch can not bear fruit by itself except it make its dwelling place in the vine.
verse 5- for without me you can do nothing. so by yourself through works you can obviously do nothing and is of no help in salvation.
verse 6- is dealing with a confession of faith that never existed. notice abide not in me is a warning and they were never connected. also he is cast forth as a branch but not a branch as a branch like judas for example a confession of faith that never existed.
verse 10- what are his commandments his commandments not mans. matthew 22:37-40 Gods commandments are love and God calls us to love regardless of the persons sin towards us and to forgive them or show mercy but some believe Gods own standard he does not practice towards his own children. crazy. Gods commandment is to trust him and him alone for ones salvation and to add nothing to it. he conquered the law not me.
verse 16- God chose God ordained so we would bring forth fruit and that the fruit would remain by him but somehow we are to make the fruit remain. well that is not what is said here. we could not produce fruit before we knew Christ but are responsible to keep it now that we do know him. he produces the fruit regardless of us. it is our faith in allowing him to produce it through us and nothing of ourselves can be added or we are actually fighting against God and what he did for all who would come to him.
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fhansen
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It would be impossible if one had God's foreknowledge and could infallibly predict who the elect are, who will persevere and who will not, remaining in obedience, remaining in subjugation, abiding in faith, hope, and love, doing His will. Believing oneself to be saved isn't the same as ultimately being saved.
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DeepWater
Just The Truth
Interesting take, but if it's not ours, regardless of your other comments, we have no salvation.
So I'm thinking that may not be correct.
Well, try it like this...
i said Salvation its not yours to lose, meaning........ just like its not yours to earn.
The Atonement is God on a cross, redeeming the sin of the world.
He did it already, before you were born.
The Atonement is finished, and redemption is complete.
So this is Salvation......its a completed situation, and its for the entire world.
Its waiting, its a done deal.....Its always offered, for free.
But, the APPLICATION of it, PER Individual, is not universal, but rather, its by each person's FAITH that it is applied.
So, as i said, this is not of us...........as Salvation is of God and the Cross, that is a finished and completed offer, unto the entire "world".
"For God so loved the WORLD"......."that he "GAVE".
So, the OFFER of the application of this condition.....this 'in Christ" position, was done for everyone, over 2000 yrs ago, but not everyone has it.
So, when we think of "our salvation", we are understanding WHO IS our Salvation.
This is Jesus.
He IS, our salvation, and we are not this.
Its HIS to Give, its not ours to earn.
Salvation was created by God, thru the Blood of Yeshua, and He will apply HIS salvation to you, or to anyone, who by faith will receive it.
So, for us to lose it, we would have to have caused it.
We didnt, we just received it. We are made partakers of GOD's redemption.
So, the only way to lose this, is if He lost it, and because he can't neither can you.
This is why Philippians 1:6 says that the work that God started in you, Salvation/Born again, that HE is faithful to complete it. ........not you.
This is why Hebrews 12:2 says that Jesus is the author and finisher of your Faith.
So, there you have God, who starts your salvation, and finishes it for you.
That you have the very faith......= that Jesus starts and finishes.
So, that is ALL of Them and that is why, Salvation, tho its yours, .....its really theirs that they created, start - finish.......and give as a FREE Gift.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
As written, some who are alive on earth are already condemned, because of their unbelief.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
What does God's Word Say ?
I quoted one verse that is true and unchanged why some alive today are condemned already.
There are other things God Says that apply also - all true.
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God's Word seems to say both sometimes, is the problem... But I do think the problem lies with us, and in our interpretations, (or (limited) perspectives or points of view) (assumptions, ect) and not God's Word itself...
God Bless!
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Jonathan Mathews
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Once you are "born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God" (John 1:13), do you think it's possible to make yourself "unborn"? Now "everyone born of God overcomes the world" (1 John 5:4). Everyone who is Born Again overcomes the world and thus will be eternally saved. The Holy Spirit is the "Irrevocable Gift" (Romans 11:29). That means God CANNOT take it back because it's the Promise of His Eternal Grace, and He cannot lie (Titus 1:2). You cannot "wander from the Faith" if that Faith has ushered in the seal of God's promise (the Holy Spirit) inside you (2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 1:13). And this Promised Holy Spirit KEEPS you until the day of Redemption (Ephesians 4:30). This is why Jesus said "You MUST be Born Again". He knew that if someone would just be Born of God, they would be His forever.
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Born again christian, is not a literal term, or not a born like a baby concept, so comparing the two to make it seem impossible to become unborn as a christian is one of the most ridiculous tools of OSAS preachers, that I've ever heard.
It's a trick and you all fell for it. We cannot become unborn like a baby from his mothers womb, however we can become unborn in the Christian sense of "Born Again".
Or, if you really want to drop the tricks, of course we can become unsaved/lose salvation.
Lots of little deceptions that you hardly even notice are the ones that getcha', so between those and a popular easy way doctrine that is a lie but that people love the idea of, they have now trapped you, destination hell.
Johnathan, the full weight of that was not intended for you at all, I just bounced off your post because I've heard that same thing so much, and needed to speak to others on the subject.
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Jonathan Mathews
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Born again christian, is not a literal term, or not a born like a baby concept, so comparing the two to make it seem impossible to become unborn as a christian is one of the most ridiculous tools of OSAS preachers, that I've ever heard.
It's a trick and you all fell for it. We cannot become unborn like a baby from his mothers womb, however we can become unborn in the Christian sense of "Born Again".
Or, if you really want to drop the tricks, of course we can become unsaved/lose salvation.
Lots of little deceptions that you hardly even notice are the ones that getcha', so between those and a popular easy way doctrine that is a lie but that people love the idea of, they have now trapped you, destination hell.
I'm trapped by the Holy Spirit. My only destination is Jesus Christ on the Throne of God. Nice try, Satan.
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That is either a larger or right one, or is a smaller or narrower or wrong one...
And if you have the right one, then "this" kind of thing, (discussing that) shouldn't happen (with us)... As you should see, if you have the right one...
Look, bottom line is it's relative to ones point of view or perception is all... And if your going to compare us to God in that...? Then apply it to "this"... well...?
Well, hopefully you'll see...
God Bless!
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I find it strange that you are telling lies about loss of salvation by clearly twisting words, something I already explained, yet you call me Satan? Was I not telling the truth in that post with the explanation, and if not, can you please show me where I
erred so we can sort out who was lying and who was not?
Trapped by the holy spirit? Id be careful of these off the cuff comments, you know, the ones you make up on the spot because they sound wonderfully wise for the moment.
Do you have any idea how that sounds?
Also, are you saying as long as we have faith, nothing else is necessary to retain salvation, and we need not do good? Or, no matter what we cannot lose that salvation?
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Perceive this:
James 5:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
It'll be interesting to see what that says to you.
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