Who loses their Salvation, and for "what" do they lose it for...?

[Carl Emerson]

To break up a quote place quote blocks around the text e.g. [QU0TE="Carl"]Back to the topic[/QU0TE] and it will appear as

You can also use plain quotes without a name e.g. [QU0TE]Back to the topic[/QU0TE]
appears as

Thanks friend...

I am getting the hang of it...

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No blessings are in your post no matter how much you repeat the word.

Well you said

And what you have described above clearly is sinning.

So How much sinning is allowed before you lose your salvation???

Blessings.

Carl Emerson.

Reminds me of “be warm, be filled.” Carl, like every OSASer Iever met, you don’t seem to want to understand how a relationship is lost. You just want to believe it can’t be.

But I faithfully laid out the way it happens. If you insist it doesn’t, what more is to be said.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No blessings are in your post no matter how much you repeat the word.Reminds me of “be warm, be filled.” Carl, like every OSASer Iever met, you don’t seem to want to understand how a relationship is lost. You just want to believe it can’t be.

But I faithfully laid out the way it happens. If you insist it doesn’t, what more is to be said.

You said "no one loses salvation by sinning"

You then described the process as you understand it.

This clearly involved many sinful choices.

I pointed this out and asked how much sinning before you loose your salvation.

I asked this to see if your opinion allowed for a prodigal's return as many claim to have experienced.

I think this is a very important point to have clear otherwise we can unwittingly falsely judge the righteous.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You said "no one loses salvation by sinning"

You then described the process as you understand it.

That is the process. Carl, you ask how much sin does it take as though there’s is a quantity as to at what point one wreaks a relationship. You just don’t get it. Salvation is a relationship, not a bank account.

This clearly involved many sinful choices.

I pointed this out and asked how much sinning before you loose your salvation.

I didn’t say that. And it’s lose, not loose.

I asked this to see if your opinion allowed for a prodigal's return as many claim to have experienced.

You didn’t ask that. Of course. Relationships can be restored at many points. Why would you think this is not possible??

I think this is a very important point to have clear otherwise we can unwittingly falsely judge the righteous.

I’m not judging anyone.

Blessings,.

Pretty much “be warm, be filled.” Your post is the opposite of a blessing.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So if as you say Salvation is a relationship not a "bank account" the Father's love will never reject a son - correct?

Did not Jesus experience this very rejection for us all?

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So if as you say Salvation is a relationship not a "bank account" the Father's love will never reject a son - correct?

If a son goes to a far country to get away from the Father and never returns squandering his whole inheritance, he remains dead to the Father. There’s no evidence that a previous believer gets into heaven no matter how unsonlike he has become. God has to think of the other sons too.

Did not Jesus experience this very rejection for us all?

He was never rejected, Why do you think he was rejected? Jesus’ words were forsaken, not rejected.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So if as you say, salvation is a relationship not a 'bank account' the fathers love will not forsake a son - correct?

Did not Jesus experience this for us on the cross and didn't He say "I will never leave you or forsake you" ??

You said no one loses salvation by sinning.

So if we can not be forsaken and cant break that relationship by sinning, how then can we lose our salvation?

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

 

[Carl Emerson]

.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So if as you say, salvation is a relationship not a 'bank account' the fathers love will not forsake a son - correct?

There is no promise God will never let us reject Him and walk away. That WE can forsake Him is something you are not considering as possible. This is the problem. You need to consider our side of the relationship.

Did not Jesus experience this for us on the cross and didn't He say "I will never leave you or forsake you" ??

He didn’t say, I will never let you leave me or forsake me.

You said no one loses salvation by sinning.

This as in the sense of what you keep raising as in number of sins like a quota. There are not a number of sins and then it’s over.

So if we can not be forsaken and cant break that relationship by sinning, how then can we lose our salvation?

We can forsake Him. We can break that relationship by choice. Jesus even says why people do this. He doesn’t promise to override that choice.

 

[Carl Emerson]

There is no promise God will never let us reject Him and walk away. That WE can forsake Him is something you are not considering as possible. This is the problem. You need to consider our side of the relationship.

Jeremiah was very specific about the nature of the New Covenant to come. Unlike the Old Covenant he prophesied that the Spirit of God would indwell the hearts of believers.

In Jer 31 we read...

“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Jer 31:32

not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.

Jer 31:33

“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jer 31:34

“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

And in Jer 32 we read...

“They shall be My people, and I will be their God;

Jer 32:39

and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me always, for their own good and for the good of their children after them.

Jer 32:40

“I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.

We clearly read that He promises to indwell us with the Fear of Him to totally eliminate turning away from Him.

It is interesting that the anointing Jesus moved in that indwelled His believers included the following seven aspects of the Holy Spirit that indwells us.

Isaiah 11

Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse,
And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.

Isa 11:2

The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
Isa 11:3

Here we have listed the seven spirits that come with the Holy Spirit and also mentioned several times in Revelation.

Among them is the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord that Jeremiah said would prevent us breaking relationship with Him.

He does not want us to worry about losing salvation - it is His work - He has sealed us into His family forever.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jeremiah was very specific about the nature of the New Covenant to come. Unlike the Old Covenant he prophesied that the Spirit of God would indwell the hearts of believers.

In Jer 31 we read...

“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Jer 31:32

not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.

Jer 31:33

“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jer 31:34

“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

And in Jer 32 we read...

“They shall be My people, and I will be their God;

Jer 32:39

and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me always, for their own good and for the good of their children after them.

Jer 32:40

“I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.

We clearly read that He promises to indwell us with the Fear of Him to totally eliminate turning away from Him.

Where is “so they can never turn away from me again?”. It says “not turn away” not never. Means the condition of receiving and acting upon the fear of the Lord, not quenching the HS is required.

In Rev Jesus warned the believers to repent or else. He didn’t say, ah but you will do as I say so no “or else” is needed. Jesus says many would fall away from the faith? How does that fit in with your interpretation?

It is interesting that the anointing Jesus moved in that indwelled His believers included the following seven aspects of the Holy Spirit that indwells us.

Isaiah 11

Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse,
And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.

Isa 11:2

The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
Isa 11:3

Do you see this in all believers everywhere???

Here we have listed the seven spirits that come with the Holy Spirit and also mentioned several times in Revelation.

Among them is the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord that Jeremiah said would prevent us breaking relationship with Him.

Where does the Bible that the fear of the Lord means we never break relationship with him?? The fear of the Lord keeps us from sin, by the way. Those who openly choose to sin don’t have much and so it much is keeping them. They don’t want it.

He does not want us to worry about losing salvation - it is His work - He has sealed us into His family forever.

Why did Jesus say, “take care no one deceives you” instead of “no worries, I don’t let you be deceived or fall away?”. Where does he say He is keeping you? He says he helps, doesn’t say it’s all his work so no worries.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Sorry that you still have questions, I suggest you put them to Him.

I have presented very clearly the following:

How He has sealed our salvation with the fear of Him.

How any of our 'righteousness' has no standing before Him.

How our disobedience can result in us missing out on the Kingdom blessings in this life and eternal rewards.

How nothing can seperate us from His love because Jesus experienced being forsaken for us on the cross.

Thank you for the opportunity to present this.

May the peace of Jesus rule in our hearts not the fear of losing salvation.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.