Who is to blame for most of the Iraqi deaths?

[ksen]

Who is to blame for most of the Iraqi deaths:

1) America, or

2) Insurgents.

Please give a reason for your answer, thanks.

 

[ksen]

I blame the insurgents for most of the deaths in Iraq. They are the ones using suicide bombing and sniper attacks and other attacks on the civilian population.

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

too simple of a choice. Obviously the insurgents are the ones killing most of the people, but the insurgency is a direct result of our actions.

I blame the Administration that planned this war and the insurgents almost equally, and the soldiers very little.

 

[ksen]

too simple of a choice. Obviously the insurgents are the ones killing most of the people, but the insurgency is a direct result of our actions.

Did our actions leave them no other choice but to send suicide bombers into marketplaces, blow up children on soccer fields, and other barbaric acts?

Sorry, they may use our invasion as an excuse, but that's all it is an excuse.

I blame the Administration that planned this war and the insurgents almost equally, and the soldiers very little.

Why stop at not blaming the soldiers?

 

[Guttermouth]

Can't vote on that one. The answer is not that simple. I can't tell you whose bullets and bombs have killed more people. We have death estimates in general ranging from 100,000 to more than 600,000, plus 2 million refugees.

What I can tell you is if we hadn't invaded there would be zero US-caused deaths and zero insurgent-caused deaths. So are we responsible for all of the deaths, some of the deaths, or none of the deaths? That is a head scratcher.

 

[ksen]

Can't vote on that one. The answer is not that simple. I can't tell you whose bullets and bombs have killed more people. We have death estimates in general ranging from 100,000 to more than 600,000, plus 2 million refugees.

What I can tell you is if we hadn't invaded there would be zero US-caused deaths and zero insurgent-caused deaths. So are we responsible for all of the deaths, some of the deaths, or none of the deaths? That is a head scratcher.

It only seems to be a head scratcher for those whose inclination is to blame America first.

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

It only seems to be a head scratcher for those whose inclination is to blame America first.

I don't blame America first, I blame an Administration that has consistently acted against the interests of America.

 

[Guttermouth]

Did our actions leave them no other choice but to send suicide bombers into marketplaces, blow up children on soccer fields, and other barbaric acts?

Sorry, they may use our invasion as an excuse, but that's all it is an excuse.

Why stop at not blaming the soldiers?

Perhaps we need to distinguish even further. Seems there are a number of different players. We have insurgents who are fighting our occupation, we have a relatively small number of foreigners including terrorists who are acting to cause instability, and we have participants in a political/religious civil war. Then we have various combinations of those.

None of them would be active in Iraq if we had not invaded.

If I let my dog out of the yard and he mauls my neighbor, I get the blame. Yes, my dog is labeled as aggressive and dangerous, but the mauling is my responsibility.

 

[Guttermouth]

It only seems to be a head scratcher for those whose inclination is to blame America first.

Ah, yes. That's it. I want to blame all of America. I am just a traitorous, unAmerican, patriot-hater.

Those people are brown, Muslim and live over there. If hundreds of thousands die, it's just because they are animals tearing each other to pieces.

And there is an Easter bunny.

 

[ksen]

Ah, yes. That's it. I want to blame all of America. I am just a traitorous, unAmerican, patriot-hater.

Is that what I said? No.

Did I accuse you of any of those things? No.

Those people are brown, Muslim and live over there. If hundreds of thousands die, it's just because they are animals tearing each other to pieces.

Red herring.

And there is an Easter bunny.

Hippitus hoppitus.....

 

[g85]

I blame the american administration

 

[ksen]

Perhaps we need to distinguish even further. Seems there are a number of different players. We have insurgents who are fighting our occupation, we have a relatively small number of foreigners including terrorists who are acting to cause instability, and we have participants in a political/religious civil war. Then we have various combinations of those.

None of them would be active in Iraq if we had not invaded.

If I let my dog out of the yard and he mauls my neighbor, I get the blame. Yes, my dog is labeled as aggressive and dangerous, but the mauling is my responsibility.

I believe that analogy falls apart.

The terrorists and insurgents are not "ours" and I expect them to be able to exercise more restraint than an aggressive and dangerous dog.

They are human beings and thus are able to decide if they should blow up that children's soccer field or not.

It can be argued if a dog really has decision-making capacity.

 

[soblessed53]

well, so far,only your responses ksen,make any sense!

 

[Guttermouth]

I believe that analogy falls apart.

The terrorists and insurgents are not "ours" and I expect them to be able to exercise more restraint than an aggressive and dangerous dog.

They are human beings and thus are able to decide if they should blow up that children's soccer field or not.

It can be argued if a dog really has decision-making capacity.

Why are you lumping insurgents and terrorists together? As I said, there are all number of different people in Iraq fighting for different reasons.

The fact that you lump them all together and say that any one of them would blow up children on a soccer field is what makes me beleive you hold anyone over there in low esteem simply because they differ from you.

It would be akin to me telling you that the American soldiers who raped a 14-year old and killed her and her entire family are representative of the entire American military. That would be hogwash, as are your claims.

And I still believe the analogy works. If I knowingly take a reckless action that results in the death or injury of another, and if that injury would not have occurred had I not done taken that action, then I must accept some level of responsibility.

 

[ksen]

Why are you lumping insurgents and terrorists together? As I said, there are all number of different people in Iraq fighting for different reasons.

The fact that you lump them all together and say that any one of them would blow up children on a soccer field is what makes me beleive you hold anyone over there in low esteem simply because they differ from you.

Ad hominem claim of racism.

It would be akin to me telling you that the American soldiers who raped a 14-year old and killed her and her entire family are representative of the entire American military. That would be hogwash, as are your claims.

Red herring.

And I still believe the analogy works. If I knowingly take a reckless action that results in the death or injury of another, and if that injury would not have occurred had I not done taken that action, then I must accept some level of responsibility.

Your analogy would work better if you said you had opened the door to let out a neighbor and then that neighbor started killing and maiming people.

Would you be responsible for that neighbor's actions?

No.

What if others jumped the fence because they saw you had opened your door and started creating mayhem and havoc. Would you be responsible for their actions as well?

No.

 

[perplexed]

The americans are responsible the terrorists are culpable.

 

[Guttermouth]

Ad hominem claim of racism.

Nope. Nice dodge though. I'm not the one lumping every person over there together as though they share the same motives. That's ok. you don't have to offer a response.

Red herring.

Sorry. Perfect example of what you are saying. If all insurgents are terrorists who bomb soccer stadiums, the all Americans are rapists and murderers, Your rules, not mine.

Your analogy would work better if you said you had opened the door to let out a neighbor and then that neighbor started killing and maiming people.

Would you be responsible for that neighbor's actions?

No.

But if I blew up my neighborhood, destroyed several houses and killed a few folks, setting off a riot in which my neighbors began killing each other for food, control of the remaining houses, and other resources, I would be responsible for setting off a chain of events which otherwise would not have happened. And if outside criminals came in and began taking advantage of the situation, killing and stealing here and there to manipulate the situation... The blood of all would be on my hands.

What if others jumped the fence because they saw you had opened your door and started creating mayhem and havoc. Would you be responsible for their actions as well?

No.

This is a nonsensical example.

 

[CCGirl]

Of course it is the US....without the invasion and occupation, this would not be happening.